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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    What he conveniently omits in his criticism of Tannehill and the Titans playoff appearance this season is the fact that 3 of the 4 home teams for the Divisional playoffs LOST…including Brady & the Buccaneers as well as Rodgers & the Packers.

    But it’s just Tannehill
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Brady has won 7 SBs and Rodgers 1. Both performed subpar in this year's playoffs but both have repeatedly demonstrated the ability to play well when the rest of the team wasn't playing well. Rodgers has done that many times, while Brady's showing against Atlanta in the SB should put to rest any argument that he can't overcome massive adversity on the biggest stage.

    Tannehill has never demonstrated this in the playoffs. Let's not compare Brady and Rodgers to Tannehill. They're polar opposites in terms of their ability to carry a team. And btw.. if either Brady or Rodgers was the QB for Tennessee that team is the odds on favorite for a SB win. Probably more likely than the Rams to win it.
     
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  3. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Shall I list all of the playoff games Aaron Rodgers in which Aaron Rodgers has choked…if you want to go that route?

    How many wild card games the Packers lost?
    How many divisional games they lost?
    How many conference championships they lost?

    If you want to go THAT route, then Rodgers is no better than Tannehill save the one Super Bowl…and the Titans still have plenty of opportunity with Tannehill.

    But all of this is getting off topic. The point being, then with Tannehill and now with Tagovailoa is that quarterback is NOT the issue with the Dolphins
     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So Tannehill takes them to the playoffs 3 years in a row, setting all time records one season, finally had bad playoff game, and now he's the problem there? I mean, I've said this before, but you don't seem to get it... These are humans, not robots, and sometimes even the very best at something have a bad day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2022
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  6. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I think the only difference, for me, between Tannehill and Tua (and why I'm not in favor of building for Tua) is that Tua pales in comparison to Tannehill, physical ability-wise. I was far more confident that with a solid team, Tannehill's physical traits would allow for a much more downfield attacking offense. I just don't see that for Tua. So, I agree with building the line etc etc, but I also want then to go after the next elite prospect or veteran that is available.
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yes Rodgers has choked many times. However, unlike Tannehill, Rodgers has played really well many times when his team didn't. Every QB that plays a long time in the league will have a few games like that, but Rodgers has done this fairly frequently. It's one of the main reasons why he's widely considered an elite QB.

    QB was a major issue while Tannehill was here. Him choking late in the season prevented multiple playoff appearances that we should have had. Like I said Tannehill had that complete team you always ask for with the Titans in 2021. The result: flop.

    Tua? We'll see, but right now it's not looking that good. He's only had one game — Arizona game — where he demonstrated the ability to lead the team to a win, coming back from a deficit multiple times. Elite QBs do that relatively often when given the chance. Tua so far only once. We made the mistake with not just Tannehill but also Fiedler keeping around a mediocre QB. I don't want to see a repeat.

    Actually the Fiedler thing was a lot worse because we had everything in place for a SB except QB. Like Titans right now.
     
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  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Finally a bad playoff game? Ask Titans fans. They blame him for 3 consecutive years of failing to go further in the playoffs. Even I'll admit year 2 should see equal blame placed on the defense, but Tannehill was instrumental in not going further in all 3 years.
     
  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I'll give Tua one thing, he knows where to pick his battles. The guy he ran over was smaller than him.
     
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  10. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    The amazing thing is, I believe a big reason we picked tua was because of our bad experience with Tannehill. Tannehill's weakness was his terrible pocket presence, and his inaccuracy, so we went and got Tua who is great in both those areas. However, the things Tannehill was actually good at like size, durability and a strong arm, are things Tua is terrible at. They are opposites of each other, but both end up being mediocre QBs overall.

    Dolphins gonna dolphin. Leave it to us to always find a way to mess up the most important picks and decisions.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2022
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  11. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, no playoffs, get Tannehill and go three straight years, then ***** Tannehill doesn't win it all. I mean, they wouldn't ever have sniffed the playoffs if they'd kept Mariota.
     
  12. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah don't get me wrong. He deserves credit for that. He also deserves blame for not taking them deeper in the playoffs.

    Seriously you should go read those Titans message boards. On multiple boards, most posters are done with Tannehill. They also recognize Tannehill costs so much in 2022 they're kind of stuck with him, so they're looking at which QB to take in 2023. Still a few apologists on those boards, but not many.
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm just saying, I can't agree with their position. If your team was not good enough to make the playoffs, and then you get a QB that takes you deep three years in a row, you thank the guy, you don't blame him. Yeah, Tannehill isn't winning you a Super Bowl on his own. But neither would Dilfer, or Eli, or any number of others. And I don't necessarily agree that they should move on. There can be many factors outside of the QB that contribute to a QB having a bad game. Doesn't necessarily mean that the QB can't get it done in the playoffs. It might mean that other pieces of the team are also struggling to get it done, so their performance drops, which further adds to the difficulty that the QB is trying to overcome.
     
  14. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    If McDaniel can raise the level of the offense even just a little, then the three games that we lost by three points or less would become wins, and the whole season would look completely different.

    That’s assuming that the D retains the same level of performance, of course.
     
  15. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Anyone who watched RTH while in Miami knew he could make some amazing throws but had major faults in his game. If you cover up those faults with a great team around him, he’s gonna win you some games. Problem is the playoffs expose those faults and he’s never going to win a super bowl. Turnovers, taking bad sacks and just all around bad pocket presence are what keep him from ever being a tier 1 QB.

    To me that’s the same problem with Tua. He won’t stay healthy, is too small and we can’t attack downfield with him like an elite QB. We might be able to make a playoff run or two but I don’t think he’s good enough to win us a super bowl against good defenses.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2022
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Caveat: ANY QB can win a Super Bowl, if they get the right help from their teammates. The likelihood of Tannehill winning one is less than a Rodgers or Mahomes or Burrow etc.

    But it could still happen. For me personally, if you said that I had to choose between Tua and Tannehill, I'd roll with Tannehill. I'd rather have the big play ability despite his pocket issues (and how do you EVER develop pocket presence in Miami behind bad line after bad line???), vs Tua's alleged better accuracy and escapability and what I see as a lack of big play ability.

    IMO, of course.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Aaaaaaaaaaand then get stomped in the playoffs.
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know man. The AFC wasn't that scary this year- I think we could have beaten anyone but the Bills and the Titans. Maybe I'm way off base, but I feel like our D would have confused the heck out of Burrow.

    And hey, we were DEFINITELY better than NE!
     
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  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    We weren't beating KC either. Also, if Burrow can overcome 9 sacks against the Titans and then outscore KC there's no way we were going to beat that team this year. And don't forget it's not just a defense you need. You need an offense too, which we didn't have.

    So that's 4 teams that were clearly a class above our own in the AFC. Had we somehow made the playoffs it's a first round exit with high degree of certainty because we'd have played one of those 4 teams.
     
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  20. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    If you look at the points we gave up past mid-year (when the defense was switched to the cover-zero), it averaged to letting opponents score 15.88 per game. We also held six teams to 10 points or less (including the Ravens) in that stretch. So if that defense was really on that day and had a TD or two of their own, I genuinely think we could hang with anyone.

    It kills me we didn't make it to the playoffs to find out how good our defense really was, but I don't think it would have been a 1st round exit. Hopefully we'll find out this coming year!
     
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  21. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, it would have been a first round exit. The way we played against Tennessee is basically all the proof you need. This team overachieved again, as usual. Our talent is really not playoff caliber, let alone playoff competitive if we did manage to make it.

    All of our wins during the season came against bad teams. Even our Ravens win was not that impressive given that the Ravens didn't make the playoffs either.
     
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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  23. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t it be nice to even play one game in January, for a change, though?
     
  24. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    "Kept clean"?

    Does that mean untouched by opposition defense?
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    According to PFF, it refers to having a secure pocket or lack of pressure. Makes me wonder how they determined it with Tua since he began to move out of the pocket almost immediately when he came back from injury.
     
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  26. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply.
     
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  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    no, it isn’t nice when you finally get a playoff game, and you lose them like 35-3.
     
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  29. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Lol!Kind of like the few times we actually made the made playoffs.
    Just like another wasted sat or sun.
     
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  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    All I could think of watching that video was, "He almost hit that poor dog! What kind of jerk throws a medicine ball at a fluffy white dog?"

    LOL, that's my overreaction of the week folks!
     
  31. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    That dog looked like a background NPC.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah exactly. How nice have the last two playoff games been? How nice is it to say "We made the playoffs!" And then to hear "You clearly didn't deserve to be in them playoffs. Who cares."
     
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  33. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Kind of silly to compare Tua and Tannehill. Both are middle tier QBs that will likely never move into that top bin. But, in the middle bin, your impact is going to change year to year depending on the talent around the QB and health of their respective teams. M McDaniel went to NFC championship with Garapolo. that's your ceiling for 2nd tier QBs. Tua was below average - that's what you get when your offensive team around your 2nd tier QB sucks.
     
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  34. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    To be fair they also went to the SB with him and very easily could have won that.

    The ceiling is still win a SB its just a whole lot harder
     
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  35. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    LOL! Tua may be A problem. But if you want to know what THE problem is, I'd suggest it's a GM who can't assess QBs.


     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  36. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Mando wanted to engage in some "gotcha" journalism in order to make his name heard during the accelerating offseason news cycle.
     
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  37. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    "I can't say he can't be"...WTF kind of statement is that?!

    LMFAO!!! What a f___ing idiot!
     
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  38. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, it was totally taken out of context. Mando tried to catch an attribution. Some reporters tossed it out to chum the water.

    “I can’t say he can’t be," Grier said. "It’s in a situation now where this will be built around his skill set and what the offense can be and Mike’s vision of how he fits. So,I wouldn’t say he can’t be. It’s too early. He’s played 20 games maybe. The first year was in and out and missing games this year, but I know he’s won games even this last year, and it’s hard to win games in this league.

    "I know people want to say he doesn’t throw the ball downfield, but he’s incredibly accurate, and that’s the real exciting part for Mike and the coaching staff, his accuracy.

    “I will say Mike and the offensive staff watched every game, every throw and put together this tape of the roster, and it was pretty cool," Grier said. "Mike’s vision for how Tua fits into this scheme and what he can do, they’re all very excited about it.

    "So, I think at the end of the day, probably Tua is going to have to come in and work with him and do it on the field, but right now there’s a very good comfort level with how they feel he fits into what Mike wants to do with our offense."

    https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/new...mps-tua-as-starter-and-shuts-down-watson-talk
     
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  39. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I thought it was funny. I guess some people don't have a sense of humor
     
  40. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Sense of humor (or a lack thereof) doesn't have anything to do with it.

    He either can, or he can't be _____. You can fill in the blank with what ever superlative you want (i.g., elite, franchise, upper-echelon, whatever).

    As the GM that selected him over the better prospect [cough-Herbert-cough], I would expect Grier to say "Yes!". And, not just "yes", but an emphatic YES! Tua CAN be elite (whether he really believes it or not)! Instead we get some kind word salad double-talk?

    And, you can say taken out of context all you want, but IMO it just shows how the most important thing to Grier is covering his own butt. Because he knows if Tua busts it's his a__ that's on the line.

    /end rant.
     
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