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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Truth =/= hate. I think people are right to question Tua being the answer, as he currently hasn't shown that yet.
     
  2. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Nah. I agree with you in principle but the attitude they're bringing with it is ridiculous. They're just waiting for him to fail. Hate is right. And it's such a weak take. Picking players and teams to fail in the NFL is the easy option. Most players, and especially QB's, will fail to be great. It takes no talent to just say that, or doubt someone. Instead of actually trying to look at possibilities, consider growth, even look at the things Tua has done well, really well in some instances, it's just doubt, all the time.
     
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  3. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    If you ask Tua's backers for their evaluation of him, I'd bet money that 90% of them would list several areas of opportunity in their critique. By the same token, if you ask those who seem to vehemently oppose him, I don't get the impression they'd include many of his positive performance attributes in their evaluation. I've posted positive and negative things in this thread but because I'm for keeping him, I've been referred to as if I can't see his faults.

    Check out my post history if you want (you don't) and you'll find where I posted that I don't know if he's the answer, but I know he's not THE problem. No way to tell until we put him into a position to succeed. The good news is that we're about to get the answer to the question.

    Why do I get the impression that regardless of his level of performance, some of us are only going to complain about him?
     
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  4. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Don't agree, I'm one of the biggest Tua haters, but I've always said he is not awful and will be a decent QB. I just don't think he can be elite and is missing some key traits, which are mainly arm strength, Football IQ, and durability. We are going to have to build a superstar team around him in order to even get a sniff of the SB.

    Also the fact we could have had Herbert instead of Tua makes me dislike him even more.

    His positive traits are good accuracy, anticipation, quick release and pocket presence.
     
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  5. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected regarding you. Let's all hope he changes your mind. But there are others here and on other forums (Twitter, Reddit, FB) who are so dug in, they think Tua should repay God for the air He wasted on him. To be fair, there are many on the other side who think Tua's sh*t should be bottled up and sold as a fragrance.

    I'm not in that contingent, BTW.

    I'm geeked out for the simple reason that if he can't drive this car, it's built well enough that somebody else will step in and succeed.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Gonna reiterate something I touched in predraft about tua when a lot of folks were criticizing him for playing with great talent.

    Being a Qb with great skill players requires hi level skill, measuring faster players and being accurate requires hi level skill, getting your timing down with hi level players requires hi level skill.

    All you have to do with this type of Qb is give him average protection and he will cut you all the way down the field.

    Now when that protection does come the innate hi level accuracy that is imbedded in his left arm will be naturally unleashed.

    What he can get better at is what I was screaming for all year, he did it in the last game and he won that game with it, and it wasn’t his left arm, it was his two legs.

    He must to reach his full potential realize when to run, to consciously make that choice to run as soon as he’s sees the lane and the backs of the secondary.

    With our speed on offense he’s going to see a lot of the Secondaries backsides.

    He must make them pay and cut them.

    Hopefully his coaches are saying the same thing to him and reminding him how he played that last game
     
  7. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think hate is the right word. I don’t know the man personally and all signs point to him that he’s a good human being.

    I would say disgruntled would be a better term. Many of us didn’t want him for a multitude of reasons. He’s small, injury prone and doenst have an elite arm. Now maybe he can overcome that have a good career. I haven’t seen it yet.

    Really the root of the problem for me comes down to Grier. He had 5 picks in the first two rounds in one of the more talented drafts and at this point has 2 complete busts and 3 middle tier players. That simply is not good enough. When you start thinking about decades of ineffectiveness as a franchise, he’s part of the problem.

    That’s why as a fan I’m frustrated and disgruntled.
     
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  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    In this case though I was talking about professional media commentators. It's one thing being a fan, it's another thing to be a disinterested/objective commentators. Provide some proper perspective and analysis please.
     
  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Makes sense, but remember two things:

    1) Grier is not Tua. Tua is not Grier. Don't hold one accountable for the other's actions.

    2) Grier could have drafted better in '19 and '20...he whiffed a lot on "developmental" players in the early rounds and we're all mad about that. Folks like Eichenberg and Jackson are not a bust yet though, and this goes back to point #1. You have to separate your anger of Grier and your disappointment in these players. Two very different things.

    Tua has had very little opportunity to shine in Miami. He was injured year one, rushed in too quickly (by Grier/Ross) and was stuck in a lousy offense with very little protection. Yet he made the most out of it and piled up some wins. In year two, the line was deplorable once again, we threatened to trade him all year long, Flores benched him multiple times and Tua still managed to keep his composure to close out the year with a winning record (remember, Brissett had 4 losses w/ Tua benched/hurt).

    So I get your argument, I really do. But with the worst line in football, receivers on IR all year long, no run game and a front office actively recruiting Brady/Watson, Tua played pretty solid under the circumstances. With most of those issues fixed this season, it should be very evident whether or not he's the guy. But again, don't hate on Tua for the stupidity of Ross and Grier...he has no control over not magically turning into Herbert.

    I do agree though that in the past two seasons, we didn't see enough to say "Tua's the guy" or "Tua's special". We just seem to disagree on why we're not saying that. I just don't see much more he could have done to take that next step with the chaos that was the Miami Dolphins.
     
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  10. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Barry says it for a lot of us:


    Sports Buzz
    Analysts turn Dolphins’ Hill pickup into referendum on Tagovailoa. And it’s enough already


    BY BARRY JACKSON

    UPDATED MARCH 25, 2022 5:40 PM
    Miami Dolphins quarterback Tua Tagovailoa (1) throws a pass during game against the Tennessee Titans in the second quarter at Nissan Stadium in Nashville, Tennessee on Sunday, January 2, 2022. AL DIAZ ADIAZ@MIAMIHERALD.COM

    Tyreek Hill hadn’t even been a Dolphin for an hour when the narrative predictably turned to - who else? - Tua Tagovailoa.

    “If Tua doesn’t become the same dude we saw at Alabama, it’s time to move on,” former NFL safety Ryan Clark bellowed.

    Former Dolphins executive Mike Tannenbaum said “it’s reasonable to think by Halloween, [you could see] Teddy Bridgewater taking over for Tua if there are any bumps in the road.”

    Multiple local columnists announced that Tagovailoa is “out of excuses.”

    And why, exactly, is any of this news?

    Everybody knows that Tagovailoa must be better in Year three to be viewed as a longterm franchise quarterback. The Dolphins’ augmenting the offense around him doesn’t change any of that, or increase the pressure on Tagovailoa, or stop any “excuses” that Tagovailoa himself has never made.

    We understand ESPN zeroing in on the Tagovailoa angle in analyzing the Hill trade. Quarterback talk - and drama - is what ESPN believes drives viewership on studio shows.

    Tannenbaum, who has done excellent work transitioning to a broadcasting job, was particularly tough on Tua.

    “Outside of Davis Mills and Mitch Trubisky, I’m not sure what other quarterback Tua would be in front of in the AFC,” Tannenbaum said. “Tua has missed 10 games. His play has been average at best. He has trouble seeing the middle of the field and can’t get the ball downfield consistently.

    “With [Jaylen] Waddle and Hill, he has no excuses. Of all the quarterbacks in the NFL, he has more pressure on him [than anyone] and Bridgewater is a very capable quarterback. It’s not unreasonable to think he could be playing sometime by midseason,... sooner than later if Tua hits any bump in the road given everything he has to work with. My concern is Tua was he was 23rd in the NFL last season in yards per pass attempt. He struggles to get the ball down the field consistently.

    “Coach [Mike] McDaniel will probably try to move the pocket, cut the field in half, have a lot of plays for Waddle and Hill that are catch and runs that play to Tua’s strength and try to maximize Tua’s ability that way. There are no more excuses. They’re giving him everything a quarterback could want and then some.”

    Clark chimed in: “The Dolphins will know by the end of the season if Tua is their franchise quarterback. There are no more excuses. Everyone will be saying, ‘What’s the excuse now, Tua?’”

    But again, where is this “excuse” narrative come from? Tagovailoa has never blamed his inconsistent play on anybody else. Some Tagovailoa supporters cited the lack of a sturdy offensive line and a substandard running game, and that’s justified.

    Beyond a handful of elite quarterbacks, who exactly would have thrived with an offensive line that yielded 247 pressures and a running game that averaged 3.5 per carry?

    Tagovailoa hasn’t been great. But he hasn’t been awful, either.

    He’s 13-8 as a starter, and his first 16-start passer rating topped those of Baker Mayfield (88.9), Tom Brady (88.3), Matt Ryan (87.7), Kyler Murray (87.4), Kirk Cousins (81.7), Carson Wentz (79.3), Derek Carr (76.6), Ryan Tannehill (76.1), Matt Stafford (75.8) and Josh Allen (70.8).

    Tagovailoa’s 66.7 completion percentage in his first 16 starts (it’s 67 percent if his two games off the bench are included) ranked second among arguably the NFL’s top 20 current quarterbacks, behind only Dak Prescott (67.8).

    Tagovailoa threw only 11 interceptions in his first 16 starts, which is tied with Ryan and Justin Herbert for fifth fewest picks among those 20 QBs.

    In his first two years, he has been much better (88.8 rating) than Trevor Lawrence in his first season (71.9), and nobody is subjecting Lawrence to the type of scrutiny that Tagovailoa endures.

    Tagovailoa converted third downs into first downs 46 percent of the time last season, which was fifth best in the league.

    Of course, Tagovailoa must be better. But I’m not sure why it’s being framed in such a negative light, as if he’s a borderline bust, when he’s nothing close to that.

    “If this season is a disaster and I hope it’s not, Tua is likely gone,” NFL Network’s Kyle Brandt said. “We already have doubts about your ability to stay healthy and your arm strength. He was a nice little side story in the NFL for a couple years. Now he’s pivotal, he’s part of the massive conversation. If you can’t drive this Ferrari, we can’t keep going with you.”

    Heck, NFL Net’s Cynthia Frelund went as far as to say the Dolphins should trade for Jimmy Garoppolo.

    “Tua has what he needs,” former Patriots linebacker and ESPN analyst Tedy Bruschi said. “All this does is shorten the leash. Conclusion time is coming. If you don’t show me what you got with all the pieces we’ve given you, they might be thinking, ‘is this guy not the one to do it for us?’

    “We’re building our team for the next guy that’s going to come in. That I’m sure is the thought process for Miami. The pressure is on. It’s show us what you got, kid. We’ve put everything around you.”

    I doubt the Dolphins are thinking that they’re “building our team for the next guy” to come in. If Tagovailoa fails, then Miami has the draft ammunition (two first-rounders, a second-rounder and third-rounder in 2023) to move up and draft a quarterback.

    But enough with the “excuse” narrative. He’s the most talented quarterback this franchise has had since Dan Marino and his first two years were strong enough to earn a third.

    Acquiring Hill and Terron Armstead and the other new offensive pieces doesn’t raise the pressure on Tagovailoa; there was already the understood expectation that he would either improve in 2022 or the Dolphins would look elsewhere for a quarterback.

    So can’t Dolphins fans enjoy the addition of one of the NFL’s best playmakers without it being all and always about Tua?

    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article259665025.html
     
  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of the criticism of Tua stems from the fact that he is not Herbert, and everybody compares him to Herbert because they were picked one after the other. Along with Tua not being able to stay healthy for a full season and not showing elite traits other than accuracy, that is the main issue.

    It's not that everyone just hates on Tua for some alterior motive. I'm sure if Lawrence stinks it up again in his second year everyone will label him a bust as well.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Imo it’s that Tua plays a different game.. his talents are not in the form of a howitzer.

    Just give him average protection and he will shred
     
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  13. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    You have Tannenbum talking about how Tua playing average but Tua isn't even talked about as average. He is treated like an absolute dumpster fire. And then you have talk about Teddy starting or them getting Jimmy G or Baker which is unbelievably comical.

    But that is sports talk. Everyone is the goat or trash. There is no room for "There are reasons to have doubts but he has been in a bad situation until now" because that is boring and who will click on that.
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody watches 11-15 games on Sunday afternoons/evenings. It stands to reason that 90% of the Monday morning QBs who talk about how poorly Tua (or most QBs, for that matter) performed are basing their opinions off reports from a few writers who did. They may have seen highlights, but personally, their lack of objectivity about coaching and personnel in their critiques is a clear indication that they're parroting what they heard from others. I've watched some and I'd bet money most couldn't even name two Dolphins offensive players beyond Tua, Waddle and Gesicki.
     
  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Because, regardless of positives, I don't believe Tua will ever be a guy who changes a game with his play.

    You act like we're saying Tua is trash. I've said several times, I think Tua will have a fine career. I think he's Ted Ginn 2.0. that's all. He's not gonna take an average or above average team to the Super Bowl. But on the right team, yeah, Tua can be an effective part.

    But we didn't want an effective part. We wanted a guy who WAS the offense...and we could have had him.
     
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  16. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    You're entitled to your opinion. I haven't knocked anybody here or elsewhere for "not thinking he's the guy". I even said on many occasions that I don't know if he is but I'd like to see him in an offense that made it capable for anyone to succeed. If you check most of this thread, you'll find that when people post positive things about him, his detractors chime in and explain why they don't like him and positive objective numbers don't matter. Their contention is almost always the subjective "I just don't think he's the guy" and sometimes "he'll never be the guy".

    They may be right, but when you base your dislike for a player on a crystal ball, others are within their rights to hold different opinions. Personally, this dude has gone 13-8 for a perennially suck *** franchise. He's had a better record than the guy most compare him to, if not the stats. In my crystal ball, I could imagine Tua having Herbert's stats and Herbert having Tua's record and the same motley crew of naysayers would be complaining that Tua hasn't won as many games as Herbert.

    We can all agree to disagree. Fortunately, we haven't become disagreeable.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, saying he has gone 13-8 in itself indicates that you believe he was largely responsible for those wins. Because you believe that, you view the same stats as me in a different light. I do not believe Tua was largely responsible, much like he was not largely responsible for Alabama's success. I'm just not hanging my hat on the idea that Tua is going to turn into something in the NFL that he wasn't able to do with far FAR better surroundings in college.
     
  18. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I disagree- Tua lost what, one game in college? Two? And you're right, Alabama was a powerhouse that rolled over people. It wasn't all Tua making that happen. But it wasn't in spite of him either- he was still running that offense and getting the ball to playmakers.

    Look at Rodgers or Mahommes, they've always had solid weapons at their disposal including a good run game. Lok at Marino; he had Duper and Clayton plus a very solid line. Look at Brady- he won with no-name white guys, until we figured out that NE didn't favor blistering speed or mad verticals; Brady needed fast separation receivers so that's what they gave him. All the "greats" have had a team around them. The few who haven't (Watson comes to mind) were never able to put a real run together doing it alone.

    I mean, look at Tannehill- I know we agree there. It's the same situation in TN since they built an entire team around him. He's had to win some games, sure, but he's also had a lot of easier ones where he got to play game-manager on a pretty clean afternoon.

    The counter to that would be someone saying, "Well heck, if a QB needs all those pieces to do well, couldn't almost any QB succeed there?" Probably so...at least any competent QB on the pro level. Tua is not overly special in that regard other than the great accuracy and movement in the pocket. But then again, that's why Hill wanted to come here, it was the first thing he said. That pin-point accuracy makes him better and lets him catch passes in stride.

    All I'm saying here is that I agree with you, but also think you couldn't be more wrong at the same time. With a competent offense, Tua is an absolute stud by making the game look easy. That's not a knock though. The injury concerns are legit and that could make me flip the other way if he's not staying healthy. But man, he has ridiculous talent in that accuracy...it is coveted much more than people realize.

    One last thing- a lot of folks knock him for not being able to throw a bomb with velocity. That's not a legit concern though, because the goal is not to score on deep throws. The real goal at any level is to grind out 4-5 yards per snap, every time, to keep the chains consistently moving. A deep shot here and there is great, don't get me wrong, but it's not the main goal because it's not sustainable.

    Averaging 4 yards per offensive snap is though, because it leads to points on every drive. That's what every coach is trying to figure out how to do consistently, whether it's a run, pass, or whatever. If they establish that early then you never see the desperation bomb, you never see the gimmick, because there's no reason to take that chance. You just keep grinding and take that occasional shot when it ends up wide open for the easy score.
     
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  19. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I disagree on both those counts. Brady can win with any WRs and basically no good WRs. He's accurate enough, all they need to be able to do is catch the ball.
    Marino got us to the playoffs without Clayton or Duper and without a good offensive line. He didn't go anywhere after because once you're in the playoffs, you have to have a good defense and weapons on offense, but he carried the team on his back the years in the 90s that we went to the playoffs.
    And Tannehill shows every time another team's D shuts down the run that he is NOT a superstar QB. He can only win against good teams if the running game works.
     
  20. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    The Win/loss record of Tua as a pro means nothing in my opinion. The majority of those games that we have won with him at quarterback were because the defense made plays throughout the game. Other wins came against terrible teams like the Jets, a Bengals team that didn't have their starting quarterback, a bad Patriots team, another Patriot team that had given up for the season, a Saints team that started Ian Book at quarterback. I mean, lets be real here, he hasn't beaten anyone by himself yet whereas we have seen many other quarterbacks in this league do so. So using the win/loss record to support him really doesn't do it for me personally. Jay Fiedler had a great record as a winning quarterback. He was still a lousy quarterback at the end of the day. Lamar Smith, Ricky Williams, Zach Thomas, Brock Marion, Jason Taylor, and our awesome defense got those wins for us.

    I'm saying this as a a guy that does believe in him. Who has he actually gone on out there and beaten? The Ravens? He had very little to do with that outside of just not screwing things up. In my opinion, his most impressive game as far as quarterbacking goes was against Atlanta last year. Even though we lost that game, he really caught my attention that day. Same again during his rookie year against the Cardinals. Other than that, he's been terrible in every big game that has mattered for us. Twice against Buffalo, and then last year again against the Titans. If and when the day comes where he is in majority of responsible for us beating a top notch opponent, I'll start to fully believe. At this point, you can put me in the no excuse group. He's got a world of talent to throw to now and some competent big guys protecting him.
    The burning question from now until that very first game of the season is going to be "can he get it done?" Week 1 is going to be absolutely huge for him and everyone else that is connected to this team. It will be the most excited I have been for Dolphins football since the 1995 season (which ended in colossal disappointment). I don't expect us to score 45 points per game next year, but we damn well better not be struggling to score 17 in a game. The passing offense at the very least, should be very good and a staple of consistency for us.
     
  21. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, we are dolphins fans. We grew up watching Marino and his howitzer. The only reason I became a dolphins fan as a kid was because of Marino. Just watching him play every Sunday was more than enough entertainment for me, even if we never ended up winning the super bowl, we were always a winning team, mainly because of Marino and his one man rocket show.

    So forgive us for not being impressed with Tua and his pea shooter, who needs a super star team around him just to be somewhat successful. Couple that with the fact that Herbert is doing his best Marino impression and we passed on him for Tua, that basically explains most of the disgust we have with Tua and this team so far.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
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  23. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua has to do more of @ :50 in the video this season.
     
  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    "Disgust" lol.

    I would put there talent around them almost the same going into next season. Minus Ekeler who he can dump it off to and it's an automatic 10+ yards every time.

    We'll see what happens. They also play eachother next year and Herbert has never beaten Tua. Let's see if he can beat him this season.
     
  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Did you say "pee shooter"?

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Fixed it for you. Smart ***
     
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  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Not being able to throw deep is ABSOLUTELY a knock, Key, regardless of how you want to dress it up. He doesn't threaten all areas of the field, so that makes him easier to defend.

    In college, Tua didn't play crazy good on what was essentially an NFL roster playing against college teams. Alabama has done the Dave with guess liked McElroy. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE A RUN TEAM. They give these QBs in Alabama sick olines, first round draft pick running backs, and first round pick receivers to throw to. If, and the vaunted Bama defenses with first round picks all over the place. And with ALL THAT, Tua didn't set records, didn't even threaten records, and, as you said yourself, "it wasn't in spite of him." If that's the best thing you can say about Tua at Alabama, where he played in the most perfect situation a QB could ever have, why do you think he is the guy you want on your team? He has to have superstars around him to have a shot?
     
  28. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    How many rings did Marino win? Zero because his teams sucked.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Try to keep up. It's been covered, Marino literally dragged garbage teams to the playoffs on his arm alone. He alone made us competitive. In the playoffs, that isn't enough. You need a defense.

    Tua can't drag us to the playoffs on his own.
     
  30. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I think there are only three quarterbacks in this league who can solely bring a team to the playoffs and that's Rodgers, Brady and Mahomes. All-time greats. You don't pick them off of trees.
     
  31. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    :lol::lol::smile:
     
  32. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Not disputing how great any of them are, but you chose bad examples to make your point. None of them plays on a garbage team. Brady had crazy help in Tampa Bay. Also had plenty of help with his offense in New England, especially from a stout line. Rodgers always plays with a good line and has a Pro Bowl receiver and last year, Aaron Jones went nuts. Mahomes' cast has always been phat.
     
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  33. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I disagree about Brady. He played with alot of talentless skill players in New England and made them stars and/or major role players.

    Rodgers always had a solid offensive line and receivers. We'll see how Adams does without him this year. Are we really saying Donald Driver and Greg Jennings are stars on other teams with different quarterbacks?

    Mahomes has had Kelce and Hill. Other than those guys, Mecole Hardman? Sammy Watkins? DeMarcus Robinson? Not exactly Pro Bowl caliber players. His offensive line has been sub-par as well.
     
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  34. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Brady elevated average players. But those average players made superior plays at crucial times. Julian Edelman's catch against the Falcons in the Super Bowl was probably as phenomenal as David Tyree's (and just as clutch) but seems to have been forgotten in time thanks to the Legend of Tom Terrific. And he never had a line that was less than stellar.

    Note: I'm not disputing that all of these are great players, just that they ever had to "drag" bad teams to the heights. If anything, they had average teams in their worst seasons and made those teams better. Last season, our offense was less than average and I'd be surprised if anybody would have squeezed one more win out of it than we got (which was probably two more wins than we should have). I'm not giving Tua all credit for the wins, but how many of my fellow board members are more than willing to blame him for all of the losses?
     
    Phil Hutchings likes this.
  35. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I believe for the most part, the Tua supporters are fair with that.

    It's the posters who say "I've never seen Tua throw a ball 50+ yards", then get shown examples of him doing it and then say "you're cherry picking" that aren't fair about Tua.

    One thing is for certain, it's a make or break year for Tua. Whatever the supporters thought was holding him back was addressed. I'm anxious to see what happens.
     
    Silverphin and Phil Hutchings like this.
  36. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    You’re 100% right. Tua did a great job on defense that day! As always, spot on Watson!
     
  37. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Imagine a supposed Dolphins fan being heartbroken his quarterback outplayed the opposing quarterback that day and threw the ball to his own team.
     
  38. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    "Other than the two All-Pros, who has he had?" Really? Don't forget to add the fact that he was sacked only 28 times last season. Again, his team was, at very worst, average without him but likely still pretty good. He didn't drag a bad team to the heights of success.

    And no, I'm not suggesting that Driver or Jennings are stars with different QBs. If the next man up in Green Bay plays like Driver, Jennings, or Adams, we can give Rodgers credit for making Adams appear to be a stud. Most likely, they had a lot to do with his success but I've seen Rodgers make too many great and clutch passes to suggest he wouldn't be a stud without All-Pro help.
     
  39. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Did you see Greg Jennings on the Vikings and Dolphins?
     
  40. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Mike Tannenbaum didn't watch the games last season.
     
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