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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. Wilkimania

    Wilkimania Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Mahomes his first year as starter throw a crazy amount of turnovers in practice camp and pre-season? Same reason. Trying to work out what you can and can't get away with.
     
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  2. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Early in last year's training camp, Tua was throwing a bunch of interceptions. It turns out, the OCs told him to take chances on throws to see what he could/couldn't do when it didn't impact games. He clearly didn't have the problem once the season started. QBs have to go through situational scenarios in order to learn their limits and either improve on those throws or avoid them. By any means, throwing several INTs in one practice session is objectively a bad day, but in context, it should have been expected. I just took notice of how his preseason "keeps getting uglier" in the eyes of that writer. Probably a Jests fan.
     
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  3. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    The argument will be short passes are easier for accuracy than longer ones.
    However, in addition to have no time, and having to throw short, he also had the WRs with the smallest separation, and thus Tua had the tightest windows to throw into. Short distances, but tightest windows, shortest time, top level accuracy, and high level performance in high-pressure situations.
     
  4. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Tyreek being passed as Tua's number 1 hype man

     
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  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well I would also want to know how many of those 4th quarter touchdowns were in games that were out of reach before I assigned any relevance to that stat.
     
  6. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The only loss that Tua played in that was out of reach in the 4th was the Titans game. No touchdown in the 4th that game. Not counting the first Buffalo game for obvious reasons. Tua being knocked out of the game in the first if someone is oblivious.

    Which only leaves 3 loss. Atl and Jax both had Dolphins leads after Dolphin scores with less than 4 minutes left in the games, and the 2nd Buffalo game was 11-17 after a Dolphin TD and 2pt conversion with 9 and a half minutes left.
     
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  7. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    These numbers mean nothing. The oline was terrible. Tua did not have a lot of time to throw, and receivers did not have a lot of time to develop their routes and get separation. The offensive scheme was tailored towards quick high percentage throws because of the bad oline. The bad oline play explains everything.
     
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  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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    Not sure I follow you. The OL being terrible doesn't change the fact that the separation and windows were small and he had little time. The OL explains that, sure, but it is still what it is from a passing perspective. Not sure what your point is.
     
  9. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You don't need a lot of separation and time to throw if you are mostly throwing short routes designed to get the ball out quickly. Nothing special about these stats given the scheme we were running and limitations of the offense due to a bad oline. Tua showed a quick release and good accuracy on short throws, other than that nothing special. He rarely had to go beyond his first read, and he was never asked to do much other than complete quick short passes.
     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    I was with you up until that one phrase. There were plenty of examples of him hitting his 2nd or 3rd read, or even coming back to his 1st read when nobody was open. And again, that's in 2.1 seconds on average.

    You're right, Tua wasn't spectacular last season. But he did show a lot of good stuff that you're overlooking as well.
     
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  11. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Great watch with coach explaining how he's helping Tua evolve this season:

     
  12. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    There were some examples, but not many. Tua himself said the offense last year was mostly a one read offense and if the first read wasn't there the play was blown. When you have 2 seconds or less to throw you don't have time to go through all your reads.
     
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  13. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  14. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I have a bad feeling about this. Shades of 2006.
     
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  15. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Not even close. Regardless of how you feel about Tagovailoa, he’s not Daunte Culpepper…nor Joey Harrington or Cleo Lemon or Marcus Vick.

    I get the sentiment but it’s an apples to oranges comparison
     
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  16. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    "he's just a one read quarterback"

     
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  17. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    That video seemed to break down the play read by read by read…by read.

    Tua checks down and turns in positive yardage but…the Tua haters would want him to force a pass and get intercepted.

    Offense 101…you take what the defense gives you and give your playmakers a chance to make a play.
     
  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  19. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Tua did ok, he did not do great, did not do terrible either so far. The offense is built to his strengths so there are no excuses now. I don't see how Simms comments are considered backpedaling, they seem fair and consistent with what he has said before. Tua can be a decent starting QB, just not elite.
     
  20. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Reminder that Chris Simms ranked Tua behind Taysom Hill last year and Mariotta this year.
     
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  21. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't most successful QBs in offenses that are built to their strengths? Do you think Lamar Jackson would thrive in the Chargers' system or Herbert would succeed playing the same offense as Jackson's? The goal of any competent GM is to put pieces around the current QB to make his job easier. Tua arrived in Miami at the beginning of a foundational rebuild that saw several key players jettisoned in order to **ta-da!** build up the team. Ignoring this aspect of his situation is disingenuous or naive. If he plays well this season, it's not because of the system, it's because he's a good QB when not hamstrung.

    Will he succeed? Perhaps. But he can't take all of the blame for falling short and be given none of the credit for success.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow. Well, if a group of unnamed experts think that, then it has to be true. Especially if they posted it on the internet.
     
  24. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    LOL! You just described our fun assemblage right here. I can imagine those asshats having the same thing to say about us. And we're just as knowledgeable as they are (if not a little more biased).
     
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  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought Tua showed some things in his reps on saturday that I haven't seen before, he's healthy committed and stronger.

    Depth of drop, awareness of backside pressure, getting out of the pocket before it collapses.
     
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  26. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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  27. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    "The expectations is that this is the second coming of Dan Marino..."

    That's the point where I stopped paying attention. Nobody holds the expectation that Tua (or anyone else) will be a top-5 all-time QB. Please spare me the hyperbole. Interesting that neither of these guys had much to say about how well #1 or the rest of the team practiced yesterday.

    Also: "Tyreek Hill's speed is one thing, but it's going to become a problem if you can't throw it that far." As most of us know, most of Cheetah's targets are not downfield throws. SMH.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2022
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  28. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It's laughable when fans try to gauge our current QB1 to Marino, one of the best QBs of all time. It's just not realistic to expect that and I honestly can't think of a single QB the past 5 years I'd take over Marino (if somehow they were both the same age, playing at the same time).

    The closest we've come so far was Tannehill, but he clearly wasn't anywhere near Marino's level in processing the field, moving in the pocket, or accuracy. Tua competes in ball placement and wins in pocket mobility, but isn't even in the same realm for arm strength or awareness. But at the same time, it's not fair to even try to make those comparisons- odds are none of the drafted QB's in the next decade will be on Marino's level.

    I'd guess Burrow is the only candidate to even compete in that realm, but he'll likely fall short. Or maybe Mahommes? But he's a different kind of freak with ridiculous senses- I have a sneaking suspicion that he's actually Spiderman. We can't compare that to Marino, LOL.
     
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  29. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    It's just silly, IMO. In the 75-year history of the NFL, Marino is by anybody's subjective definition a top-10 QB and, for many, a top-5 QB. It's unlikely that anybody's going to bump him off of that list. So, expecting somebody to do it is foolish and ignorant of history, mathematical odds, common sense, and objective thought. We don't need another Dan Marino, although I'd love to have it.

    When the idiots were talking about trading for Brady a couple of weeks ago, they asked Tua about it (somewhat disrespectfully, IMO). If I was Tua, I would provide this answer once and be done with it: "Every team GM is working to improve his team. I could work my butt off and be a top-3 QB for the next 15 years and still not have as great a career as Tom Brady. If you're asking my thoughts about being traded for a guy who many consider to be the greatest QB ever, my answer is that it'd be foolish for the team not to consider it. My job now is to make sure they don't regret keeping me."
     
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  30. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Well, Herbert already has the record for most TD passes, most completions and most passing yards in the first two years of a career in NFL history, breaking Marino’s record, Jftr.
     
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  31. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    This should get most of us excited. Hope he's right:
     
  32. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Comparing Justin Herbert to Dan Marino is like comparing Kyle Busch to Richard Petty.

    Two completely different eras with two completely different sets of conditions.

    Had Herbert played during Marino’s era, everyone would be asking Justin Who? And on the flip side of that same coin, had Marino played with the same rules in today’s game, he would still own every quarterback passing record.

    NO ONE threw the ball like Marino…NO ONE!!!!
     
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  33. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    No No No. Settle down now. You weren’t following the convo. I was responding to key when he mentioned if there were any younger players recently drafted who had a chance of getting to that point and he brought up Burrow, so that’s why I made the comment about Herbert.
    Hey, I have two Phin jerseys; Marino and Zach. Ha.
    No need to defend him to me.
     
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  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Sorry Sceeto…you committed sacrilege with the Herbert/Marino comparison. You should know better.

    Now 50 lashes with a wet noodle. Be a man and take it. :sidelol:
     
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  35. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    HaHa! :crapstrom:
     
  36. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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  38. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity

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  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    KeyShawn Johnson is as overrated in his opinions as he was as a receiver. He's been spewing hate at Tua since last year and it's clear he hasn't watched Dolphins games.
     
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  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I hope to God we truly go 2-2 on our first 4 game stretch…so we’ll be 9-2 before our brutal last 6 game stretch. I really hope (and truly believe we can) go 3-1 so we’ll be 10-1…so all of these Tua haters will be shut the eff up.

    I’m more worried about the last 6 games than I am the first 4, just due to the amount of travel the team will be doing.
     
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