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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, Herbert > Tua for sure based on everything we've seen, but there are no excuses for Herbert either. He's got to take the Chargers deep in the playoffs fairly often over his career or he's probably not the right QB either. So far only Burrow among the 2020 QB class has shown he has what you'd want in a QB in both regular season and playoffs.
     
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  2. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    That ****ing overtime win in 2019 cost us Burrow.
     
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  3. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Win the battle and lose the war. Though I have a feeling that had we lost that game, Cinci loses their final game to still end the season 2-14 to guarantee themselves Burrow (they beat the Browns in the last game of the season).

    Tanking is smart sometimes. I wish this franchise understood that in past years.
     
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  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    They're nothing alike! Tua got a W, while Herbert got a L. That's always BY FAR the most important stat since winning cures everything.
     
  5. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    That's fair.
     
  6. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    And I don't see anyone saying about the 2 picks that were absolutely dropped or the throws that were way off the mark or that he skipped. When Herbert wins it's because of him and when he loses it's because the defense was bad. But when it comes to the Dolphins and Tua, when they win it's not about him and win they lose it's all about him. When Tua played hurt he should be sitting for the best of the team. When Herbert plays and hurts his team by doing so, (he could have run for the 1st down) then he's "gutting it out and showing leadership" or some other BS. Some of these people here with the lovefest for Herbert are totally laughable and this game just shows how inconsistent you apply your takes.
     
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  7. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    I think Burrow is really great but that is a pretty overrated playoff run. Imagine if Tannehill had even a mediocre game or if Mahomes didn't forget how to play at the end of the half and then rest of the game.

    He was probably better in the game they lost then the ones they won
     
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  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yeah, I agree. Don't get me wrong, I don't see Tua as an elite QB, but I think people are elevating Herbert to elite status without him actually having won anything. He plays flashy and wins flashy, but how many QBs have we seen through the years who did that? Someone compared Herbert to Marino, but Marino took a team with no running game and no defense to the SB in his second year. Herbert couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in his second year.
     
  9. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Marino played with a great defense his first 2 years. In 1983 the Dolphins had the best defense in the NFL by points allowed. In 1984 during that SB run they had the 7th best defense by points allowed. It's only from year 3 that he started playing with an average defense and from year 4 one of the worst defenses. It took about 3 years after Arnsparger left before the Dolphins defense was one of the worst.
     
  10. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    If you want to call the 84 defense great, okay...he also took the team to the playoffs 18 times and the AFC championship twice after that.
     
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  11. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with much of your take. It's football though, there will always be throws that a QB wants back. When/if Tua starts hitting the big throws more consistently I am hoping the Anti Tua bundh calms down. Most of us here hope he does do just that, I think. It's just weird that some think it's impossible for it to happen. Maybe, they don't get why that 4th and 8 for a TD was just as big of a TD throw as any of the longer ones last week. The timing and ball placement on it is tuff to replicate and the stakes were big.
     
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  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I don't think that crowd will ever calm down. Just is just something about him that pisses them off.

    Just look at the last game. Tua is 4-0 against the Patriots and just completed his best game. Yes, he wasn't perfect, but really there was only 1 inexcusable throw and the rest were just miscommunications or receivers not getting to the spot. Yet people are acting like he was terrible and will never be an NFL quarterback while playing pretty good against a defense that generally doesn't let quarterbacks look pretty good.

    The
     
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  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I just want to see the rookie mistakes, the terrible throws when panicked, gone from his game. He doesn't have to have a cannon, but I'd like to see him captain a dangerous offense.
     
  14. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Hey, I didn't watch the whole game last night, just the highlights, but the highlights I saw from Herbert and Mahomes last night were better than any highlights I've ever seen from Tua.

    Every QB has their ups and downs in games, even the greatest have their occasional bad throws and lowlights.
     
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Along with eliminating mistakes, I want to see him be able to make all the throws, including the difficult ones off script and under pressure. He has not shown he can do that.
     
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  16. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He has done all those things. It's doing it consistently that is the issue. This does not mean that there aren't throws that Herbert and Mahomes can make that he cannot. It just means that your examples of what you want to see have been seen. Both of you seem done with him as a 24 yr old after game one, in year one, of his first good offense. A game that he didn't play terrible. We've seen terrible, and we've seen terrible from him, that was neither. Oh well, we have 16 more weeks to see more.
     
  17. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Did you see the ones where both Mahomes and Herbert threw at least 2 picks that were flat out dropped. Doesn't fit you're narrative so you "missed" those. Mahomes looked shell shocked and they would have lost if it wasn't for that terrible throw and pick 6 by Herbert. Forgot about that one did you or was that one of those highlights that were better than Tua?
     
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  18. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    This is basically what I'm asking for out of him as well. Playing scared, the jitters, shrinking in big games, rookie mistakes, not playing with any guts. These are the things he does that drive me crazy. Mainly it's the disappearing act in must win games or statement games that really frustrate me. Buffalo destroyed him his rookie year in what would have been a playoff clinching game. Last year he was steamrolled three plays into the game against them again. Then there was the Titans game where he looked like a high school quarterback playing against all pros. Beating Baltimore and Buffalo these next couple of weeks would be huge for him. At this point though, he is well insulated and he does have time to improve as long as we are winning games. If we take the Russell Wilson approach with him and keep it that way, then I think eventually he'll be where we want him to be. However...In the meantime we need to keep winning for him to do so.
     
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  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah...cause it's all about one game. Nothing to do with two years of play.

    Again, I'm not sure how often I have to say it, I think barring injury, Tua has a decent career.

    I just would prefer that some other teams have him as their potentially slightly above average QB.
     
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  20. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Can you win big games with a smaller version of Alex Smith? I don’t see it.
     
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  21. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The 2 years is the point. He has done what you want him to do in those 2 years. So it's not impossible for him to do it. He needs to do it consistently. The one game in a good offense is the context for his play. If he doesn't improve enough by the end of the year, it's time to heavily invest in upgrading, because of that context. You, if I understand correctly, are saying that it is impossible for him to do that. At this point its a :deadhorse: situation. At least the games are on and live now.
     
  22. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Lol, "Mr. Anyone Can Look Good In Highlights" says quarterback looked great in highlights.

    Can't make it up.
     
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  23. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    The bottom line is, Tua is going to be our QB for the rest of this season, barring injury. If he craps the bed with what they've built around him, then we trade some future draft picks and current first rounder for a higher pick next season and hope to God they're smart enough not to draft Bryce Young.
     
  24. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    What is "crapping the bed" for you? He's not going to throw 12 touchdowns and 18 interceptions.

    I think he needs to be 25+ touchdowns and/or a playoff berth.

    What do you do if Miami goes 12-5 and Tua has improved stats from last year and goes one and done in playoffs?

    What do you do if Miami goes 9-8 again and he throws 25-30 touchdowns and shows significant improvement?

    He is going to get blamed for everything no matter what, so it will be interesting.
     
  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Well, everyone is going to have a different definition, but for me, it would be him turning the ball over at game-losing situations and doing it repeatedly. I think if the team makes the playoff, even one and done, it's still an improvement. If they win a playoff game, even just one, I think the season is a success.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude. You can't be an NFL quarterback and not AT SOME POINT, do the things I want him to do. That's the most ridiculous thing yet.

    Yeah, it's year three. Game One looked pretty much like all the others. You can tell me all you want how great Tua is, but I don't see it. He's decent. If he's still only looking "decent" at the end of the year, we need to move on.
     
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  27. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

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    It's year one for me. The complete tear down year and a year without receivers (except Waddle), OL and a competent offensive coordinator were a complete waste of developmental time. Hope Tua keeps improving for the sake of 2022.
     
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  28. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I gave up even trying to have a logical debate with that guy a long time ago.
     
  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a problem with reading comprehension? I said Mahomes and Herbert's highlights In last nights game were better than any highlights I've ever seen from Tua. I never said highlights are a good way to evaluate a QB, or any player for that matter.

    I have also seen several complete games of Mahomes and Herbert before, and they are at least two or three levels above Tua.
     
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  30. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I did see the Herbert pick, he misjudged where the reciever would break towards. I actually think that was more the recievers fault, he had inside leverage so should have broken inside to body out the DB, which is what Herbert though he would do, but instead he broke outside and let the DB step inside for the pick.

    Mahomes bad throws were not in the highlights I saw initially, but I've gone back now and seen them. Yes, he had several that should have been picked, but he made up for it with some monster throws and clutch plays. He needs to clean up the bad throws and he's shown time and again he can do that.

    Tua on the other hand also threw several that could have been picked on Sunday, but he never made any throw anywhere near as impressive as some of the throws Herbert and Mahomes made last night.

    Again if Tua cleans the mistakes he can be decent, but he is never going to be as great as some of the best QBs in the game because he just doesn't have the arm, athleticism, size, and football IQ you need to be truly great. Are you guys happy with just a decent slightly above average QB? I'm not.

    The only hope some Tuanons have is that he turns into Drew Brees, but I'm sorry to say Brees had a better arm and much better football IQ than Tua. I don't see him getting anywhere near Brees level.
     
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  31. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    It is really crazy that some people are trying to knock on Herbert for that game.
    He was missing his #1 WR. The pick 6 at the end was completely on the TE. He was completely gassed. He was supposed to turn back to a spot and Herbert was supposed to throw it to that spot and he did, but the TE totally messed up. Herbert was also playing injured and in pain because he injured his ribs in the game, but he kept playing and played well and almost beat them. He has also beat the Chiefs before. The Chiefs also aren't a scrub team with a scrub QB. He had three TDs. It is also clearly tuanon who is, sadly and ineffectively, attempting to use this as some way to prop up Tua.

    Keyshawn brings up that play. Watch it at the 3 min mark.
     
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  32. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    And makes a throw like this, with broken/torn rib cartilage.



    An amazing throw for any healthy QB, but to do it when he was clearly in excruciating pain, just a real gutty performance. He's tough as nails on top of being one of the best QB's in the league right now.
     
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  33. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Holy moly, there are so many excuses in this post. Imagine if somebody made 20 excuses for a Tua performance in one post?
     
  34. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Happens all the time on this board.
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Are you kidding? The ONLY reason I hold out ANY hope for Tua is because it's come out that he was not even remotely healthy year 1, and he had several injuries year 2 (although this is also very concerning that his first two seasons he was injured both seasons).

    Reasons are not excuses. They are completely different. Trying to act like they're the same is really disingenuous. Reasons are legitimate, excuses are not.
     
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  36. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    "Reasons are not excuses". That's golden. I'm gonna use that one.
     
  37. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Luckily, reasons are not excuses.
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah, reasons are not excuses. "Sorry teacher, I don't have my homework because we were on an accident this morning, and my school bag burned up.". That's a reason. "I don't have my homework because my mother didn't pack it in my bag" is an excuse.

    Can you see the difference?
     
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  39. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Tuanon are the only ones still OBSESSED with Herbert. Actual Dolphins fans don't even want to think about Herbert. Hurts too much. It's just embarrassing to keep talking about Herbert if you are a Dolphins fan. Just stop.
     
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  40. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I watched the whole game and based on what I saw…the defensive strategies that were implemented, both quarterbacks played poorly.

    When Kansas City forced Herbert out of the pocket, he was garbage. When San Diego kept Mahomes in the pocket and collapsed it, he was garbage.

    I know our defense is leaps and bounds better than either of those two so as it stands right now, neither of those two teams scare me.
     
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