1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

    763
    414
    63
    Sep 16, 2018
    The TD pass to Cracraft wasn’t too shabby.
     
    OwesOwn614 likes this.
  2. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    45,652
    19,304
    113
    Dec 3, 2007
    Windsor, ON. CANADA
    Listening to McDaniel post game it sounds to me like he's really changed Tua's mindset too. From being overly careful and protective and critical of his own play to encouraging him to just go out there and play with confidence. I think we saw that yesterday, Tua didn't seem like the same old Tua yesterday. Both on, and off the field. Celebrating etc. Just looked like he was actually having some fun out there. Sure didn't see that with Flores. Maybe McDaniel will be able to unlock Tua here rather than keeping him on such a short leash like Flores and company.
     
    KeyFin and Phil Hutchings like this.
  3. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Well-Known Member

    763
    414
    63
    Sep 16, 2018
    I have seen in the Premier League, it often takes a team a season to get a previous head coach’s tactics and system fully out of their heads. Maybe it will take a while for the Dolphins to release themselves from Flores' shackles.
     
    Two Tacos likes this.
  4. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    11,121
    5,828
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    I've seen it claimed a few times that a new Offense takes about 8 weeks into the season for a QB to really start to be automatic with the reads.
     
    resnor and Phil Hutchings like this.
  5. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY

    The idea that the offense could get BETTER is just awesome.
     
  6. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,500
    6,244
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Wow. Great game. I was just about to shut the game off early in the fourth quarter. Surreal s--t.

    I have no idea what to make of it. Just bizarre.

    Great to see Tua show his resiliency after the first three quarters and keep pushing to make big plays. I'm happy for Tua, McDaniel and the rest of the team.

    Though I have been critical of Tua, I always say that I am a diehard phin fan first and foremost and when the game starts, I root for Tua as much as I have for any phin QB. That's the truth.

    Now, putting things into perspective, the Ravens secondary was abysmal. Not just the injuries and the guys they had playing, but the scheme and coaching was atrocious. Letting Tyreek get behind them without even keeping some shlub way back to protect was really bad. Tua and the team did great in making them pay for such bonehead moves. That's what good teams do. That was encouraging. They took what they were given and rammed it up that place where the sun doesn't shine.

    Next week will be the real test for Tua and the team. If they can put up a really good fight, not even neccessarily win, but put up a good fight against Barfalo, then that will really change my outlook and hope for Tua and the team.

    Until then, I will just celebrate this win and, I don't know, just keep drinking?
     
    Hooligan, resnor and KeyFin like this.
  7. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

    3,797
    2,900
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    The last time we cooked somebody like this i was like 3 years old, im now almost 40 with my own kid. Im gonna ****ing enjoy it.

    As far as QB1 goes, thats a hostile barn, with albeit depleted a defensive minded team that has an MVP signal caller and hung almost a 40 burger on us and Tua told Lamar “hold my beer”. If we are being GENEROUS, 3 possibly 4 other teams in the AFC can make that comeback. Baltimore itself isnt one of them. Welcome back, Dolphins splash play offense. Its been literally 15 years since we have seen you. Hello.
    Good teams can beat you more than one way. We are now entering that tier.

    The QB has tools to excel at this level. The “can he be elite” debate is so tired and myopic and dumb. He checked an important box yesterday. Can he put a team on his back and LEAD? hell ****ing yeah.

    he can play at this level. He has the ability to be a leader of men, and he has a rapport with his team and command of his weapons.

    Im DONE with the Tua debate. Hes my guy. Im in. Keep working on that OL. Get the seconds sorted, and lets cook.

    as for the coach? He believes in this team. You can smell it. I believe in him. He talks to them like an older brother, not a dad, and empowers his guys. Refreshing. And he has a malleable gameplan to attack the oppositions weaknesses. Its awesome to see an AGGRESSIVE Dolphins team. When was the last time? Johnson?
     
    Fireland and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  8. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,757
    3,786
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    Tannehill entered college as a wide receiver. That's why I scratched my head when we drafted him. He was always going to need years to be good and it was entirely possible that after several years of development and experience, he was never going to be a franchise QB; we'd just have to wait to find out. No disrespect to him at all, but our organization was too shaky to get the best out of a project at that position.
     
    jdallen1222 likes this.
  9. jdallen1222

    jdallen1222 Well-Known Member

    2,752
    1,373
    113
    May 31, 2013
    Plantation, Fl
    No disrespect to him, he was tough. He took some beatings and it never fazed him.
     
  10. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Tannehill entered college as a QB. He chose to play WR rather than ride the pine. And when he did start he showed he was a major step up over the guy he backed up.
    What should have you scratching your head is that we hired his college coach, who clearly misused him, to be our OC.
    I think if RT17 had someone like McDaniels as his first NFL HC (i.e. a coach he encouraged him to do things, not avoid mistakes) he would have had a higher ceiling.
     
    OwesOwn614, resnor and Silverphin like this.
  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    I think a QB's ceiling is mostly genetics, not sure you can change that with a better coach. We saw Tannehill's ceiling in Tennessee. Put an all star cast around him he does really well, but he's still incapable of carrying the team like Tua just did, especially in the playoffs. Tua just demonstrated something no Dolphins QB since Marino could do.

    What's interesting is that not even Marino overcame this large a deficit. The largest 2nd half deficit ever overcome in Dolphins history occurred yesterday, with Tua as QB.
     
    resnor likes this.
  12. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

    11,035
    4,419
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Yeah, I remember that. I remember the narrative that Tannehill was a "coach killer", never mind the fact that all of the coaches he "killed" have gone on to do jack all since.
     
    resnor likes this.
  13. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

    13,500
    6,244
    113
    Oct 13, 2008
    New York
    Tannehill?
     
  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,757
    3,786
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
    I stand corrected. Thank you, Sir.
     
    resnor likes this.
  15. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Just because it's statistically impressive doesn't mean it's better than any Marino comeback. Let's remember it's just one quarter of play where Baltimore played incredibly dumb by going for it on fourth and then letting Hill run free over the top with no safety help, twice. It's not like Tua was threading needles and working miracles like Marino used to do regularly.
     
    resnor likes this.
  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

    10,659
    12,657
    113
    Dec 21, 2014
    That's obvious. Marino's top 10 all time. Tua had one great game (OK maybe 2 now).

    But statistically impressive counts too. Don't dismiss that. If you can consistently play statistically impressive, that's sufficient. In the end it doesn't matter how you're doing it, just that you get it done. So yesterday was a start. What we need now is consistency, with or without threading needles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  17. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    That's just mind-boggling. Really hoping that he starts stacking those types of performances...not necessarily 6 TD's a week since that seems kind of impossible, but at least that type of command of the offense.
     
  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,757
    3,786
    113
    Jul 8, 2020

    From the article:
    Nobody on the team seemingly takes more joy in Tagovailoa’s success than Gesicki. Asked why that’s the case - beyond obviously wanting his quarterback to play well - Gesicki said: “Because he’s dealt with so much criticism and outside noise from people that aren’t in the building, people that don’t know the play call but they’re still going to say or do anything they want because it draws attention to [be] negative. “That’s the world we live; people want to be negative. People want to hop on the bandwagon. If I was him, I wouldn’t let them.”

    Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/...y-jackson/article263847127.html#storylink=cpy
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  19. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

    3,757
    3,786
    113
    Jul 8, 2020
     
    KeyFin and resnor like this.
  20. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

    3,797
    2,900
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    if herbert or mahomes had that exact game youd be marveling. stop.
     
    Phil Hutchings likes this.
  21. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

    3,696
    3,743
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    To be clear, I think Tannehill’s ceiling isn’t in the same stratosphere as say Mahomes or Herbert.
    We saw in his rookie year that he threw with more anticipation and was better at avoiding sacks than in subsequent years, which I attribute to coaches telling him to avoid throwing risky passes and to eat the sack rather than risk a fumble or INT. In statistical terms maybe +5 to his career passer rating, or +10 if everything aligned.
     
    resnor likes this.
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    16,327
    9,874
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Ignoring the NFL history of these three quarterbacks is a bit disingenuous, is it not? One game, or even one season, does not make you a great QB.

    So, I'm excited about the 4th quarter. I'm excited that Tua finally flashed something. But he has got to have more games where he flashes. He doesn't have to throw 6tds, but he needs to be more consistent. One game doesn't erase the past two years, but it's a start.
     
    Phil Hutchings likes this.
  23. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

    3,797
    2,900
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    Its about ceiling, and credit where its due. Before sunday, even as a Tua supporter, i would have thought a 21 point deficit was insurmountable for this team and that has ceiling was pulling us back from a 10-14 point gap. I would have thought his peak day was 300 and 3 tuddys. Now? Now i want to see more. And it makes a genuine difference in what he can be to have a coach that engineers to his strengths and BELIEVES in him.
     
    resnor likes this.
  24. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    Hey, it's not about Herbert and Mahomes. I'm just not at all impressed with Tua's arm talent. He has serious limitations in arm strength, and none of the throws he made on Sunday were impressive. It was more Baltimore letting guys run free and playing dumb football than Tua being great.
     
  25. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    I know you base all of your information on the two minute highlight reels, but actually try watching a whole game once.
     
  26. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    8,565
    3,821
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Powell, WY

    Dude, I've not been a big Tua fan, so trust me when I tell you, this take is incredibly stupid. Abandon it. Leave it by the side of the road like garbage. If Tua craps the bed against the Bills, you can say "I was right!" but trying to use this game to prove it is futile and makes your arguments look weak and deluded.
     
    resnor likes this.
  27. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

    1,663
    1,759
    113
    Jan 16, 2022
    I wouldn't even say it was an impressive game. It was more an impressive quarter where Tua took advantage of the Ravens not paying attention to Hill twice on go routes. His 1st half performance was pretty poor. He needs to play well many more times and consistently from start to finish.
     
    resnor and hitman8 like this.
  28. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    All you see is the one busted coverage highlight. There were 35 other completions and 400 other yards mixed in there.
     
    Rick 1966 and Dol-Fan Dupree like this.
  29. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    I watched the whole game. I watch every dolphin game from start to finish. Tua has some serious arm strength limitations. He did not just suddenly turn into a franchise QB in one quarter. If the ravens had provided safety help on either of the TDs to Hill those would not have happened, since Tua again floated the ball down field on both occasions, as he usually does.
     
  30. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    You have to realize how stupid this looks right? I can't be the only one.

    "If they had a defender there, then the play probably doesn't happen."

    So, when Josh Allen was throwing to a wide open Stefon Diggs last night, if only the defense would have put a defender there then he probably wouldn't have had 12 catches.

    Football genius!
     
  31. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    10,488
    12,821
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    What he's saying is, you can't look at one game as proof that Burrow or Herbert are amazing, while also looking at Tua's game as just a meaningless one-off. It has to be apples to apples.

    Last week, Tua was the best of the three. Next week, maybe not. All folks are saying is that it has to be a fair judgement on both sides of the equation. Tua "won" week two and folks just need to let him have that.
     
  32. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,461
    1,234
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    He had a number of good throws that had nothing to do with the Hill bombs. One of the threads has a video of Matt Hasselbeck breaking down the good stuff he did.

    This game really does show the difference between the fans who don't believe in him but are rooting for him and the ones who want him to be bad so they can be right
     
    Striking likes this.
  33. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

    1,663
    1,759
    113
    Jan 16, 2022
    Huh? They lost Hill twice for 50+ yards.

    Also, I didn't say he didn't have any other good throws. I said he had a really good quarter, that doesn't change the 1st half of the game.

    The first half of the game was very poor:
     
  34. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

    1,663
    1,759
    113
    Jan 16, 2022
    Some of you guys are funny. Super glad to see Tua win a game for once being elite but at the same time he needs to show it consistently to be more than a middle tier QB. That's all. He has this massive sample of being middle tier type but because he exploded in 1 quarter, some of you want to just ignore all this large history of mediocrity and be like, no no, this one quarter is who he REALLY is.
     
  35. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

    5,818
    4,664
    113
    Jan 15, 2008
    The first long TD pass wasn't busted coverage. It was Hill beating the corner and safety. The second time was was busted coverage.
     
  36. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

    3,040
    2,485
    113
    Nov 11, 2016
    No, the difference is Allen threw a rope and hit diggs in stride full speed. Even if there was a safety there he could have completed it. Tua threw up a floater which took a lot longer to get there and Hill had to stop and wait for it. If there was a safety there that was getting picked off or broken up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2022
  37. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,461
    1,234
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    Except that I don't think anyone here is actually doing that. People saying it was an incredible performance and lets hope its a sign of things to come is not exactly the same thing as get the gold jacket ready. Creating strawmen like that just proves my point.

    I guess instead of saying he had a great game we should just go for full buffoonery and decide certain throws don't count and he wasn't even good
     
    KeyFin likes this.
  38. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

    1,663
    1,759
    113
    Jan 16, 2022
    Where did I say certain throws don't count? Someone is creating strawman, but it aint me babe.
     
  39. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

    1,461
    1,234
    113
    Dec 29, 2013
    You are just trying to make the entire performance about about the two Hill TDs. So yeah that isn't saying they don't count but its an obvious spin to be able to downplay his performance.
     
  40. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

    3,797
    2,900
    113
    Oct 26, 2009
    Bklyn
    its amazing and depressing how folks cant give him credit for arguably what the third best qb performance in franchise history? like, what the ****?

    do you want to be right or win football games? some of you are so convinced of your own football acumen and that you're pseudo-pundits (who are also wrong all the time, look at cowherds rambling dishonest breakdown of the game) that you cant open yourself to the possibility that a lack of weapons, protection and coaching was limiting the kids ceiling the last 2 years.

    Admit you might be wrong. thats it. own it. dont just keep doubling down. its pathetic.

    "he only threw to open guys" this **** is sad. stop humiliating yourselves.
     
    KeyFin and Fireland like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page