Dude.. he played like a franchise QB from the Ravens game. We never saw him play like that before. High efficiency and the ability to carry the team when needed. That's exactly what you want. The only criticism left is consistency, which includes the issue of durability. That's still an unknown. But to act like you KNOW he can't be sufficiently durable is way off the mark. No it's not clear Tua supporters were "wrong" yet. In fact Tua detractors that said he could never play like a franchise QB have already been proven wrong. Consistency is now the issue. We'll see. I really hope you're not hoping Tua can't play just so you can say you were "right".
Durability is a legitimate concern. There’s no doubt Tagovailoa has been injured quite a bit during his tenure here in Miami but there’s also no doubt our offensive line has been subpar for decades. Granted, the line this year has played better than in years past, but I don’t truly feel the line has been a major concern for the organization. Tua has shown he does indeed have the skills and ability to be that lights out quarterback everyone wants to see. His performance against the Ravens alone should put to rest any doubt of his play making ability. I wish him well and want him back as soon as possible but not too soon that if he gets the slightest bell ring, he’ll be gone for good.
He had a very good half against the ravens. He was terrible in the first half. Tua fans asee hanging their hats on one half of football. The rest of the time hes been a good game manager. Thats not worthy of a number 5 pick. I'm not hoping that he doesn't play. He's our best chance to win. He's just not good enough to get us to the promise land
No, he played well enough for us to beat the Bills too. I think the defense holding off the Bills in crucial situations was the most important aspect of that game, but without Tua making some key plays we don't beat the Bills either. We were also in a 50/50 game against Cinci with him as QB. It's more than just one quarter of great football against the Ravens. He's been good enough for a deep playoff run offense since that time. Either way, let's just wait and see if he can start most games this season before writing him off for durability reasons.
Playing a great 5 quarters of football does not make him a Franchise QB. Lots of mediocre or just above average QBs have had similar great stretches, but they cannot maintain that level of play over a whole season, or multiple seasons as the truly great ones can. I and I think most Tua detractors never said he was complete trash. I've always said since we drafted him he can be a good QB. I just don't think he is a franchise QB, mainly due to a lack of durability, arm strength, and low football IQ. None of what he has done so far has persuaded me to change that view.
I said he "played like a franchise QB" for that period of time. I also said consistency was the remaining issue. That part was covered. Clearly durability is a serious concern. We'll see how that plays out. But arm strength is not if you put him in the right system. There are some great QBs with weak arms, like Young. Young of course had high football IQ. Tua showed high football IQ in those last few games, so that IQ part you may not be right about. We'll see. Depends on whether he can do this consistently.
Tua is an inconsistent, undersized, un-athletic, injury-prone quarterback with a weak arm. One quarter in Baltimore isn’t going to change that. When you rank him with other quarterbacks in the AFC he’s way down the list.
With Tua I've always taken the wait and see approach before praising or bashing him. This year, his play has improved enough for me to say I'm fine with him moving forward. His durability is definitely a concern but his ability can take us where we need to go. Elite QB's in this league are hardly fail-proof or error-proof. They all make throws that are in question from time to time including Allen, Mahomes, Rodgers, Jackson......etc. Also I truly believe we would have won against the Bengals if Tua didn't take that hit. You want to blame him for taking that hit in the first place go right ahead but he has the ability to win a lot of games for us.
Steve young is Tua's ceiling, but young was way more athletic than Tua, and more durable, with higher football IQ. Even so, I would not consider Steve Young to be a truly great QB, at least not when compared to the likes of Marino and Elwey of his time. Young was mostly just lucky to play for a loaded 49ers team most of his career. Regarding football IQ, throwing to wide open receivers is not my idea of having high football IQ. Tua's dumb plays under pressure and inability to get rid of the ball when he has to show he has low football IQ.
Tua leads the league in most passing categories and was a top 5 MVP candidate in most sports books before he got hurt. His durability is clearly a concern. But, he's not a "terrible weak armed quarterback with a bad football IQ". That's just dumb.
I think there are two types of passing statistics that matter: career passing efficiency (adjusted for era) given a minimum number of attempts (e.g., 3000+), and total wins added above replacement, which includes longevity. Steve Young is #1 all time in that first category. That's not something you just get by playing for a great team. So there's something vastly off between your perception of great and what turns out to affect win% most (i.e., passing efficiency). Steve Young was #1 in passer rating for starting QBs a record 6 times (6 different years)! In the post-merger era the next best is Rodgers who did that 4 times. Young is as elite as they get.
Steve Young played on an all-time great team which greatly influenced his success and stats. He was not however a greater QB than Elway or Marino, regardless of what your stats say. He just played on much better teams for most of his career.
You're way overestimating what a great team can do for you. Montana only came in twice #1 at passer rating, and he's one of the greatest. Same team. Why did Steve Young manage it 6 times? Brady twice. Manning 3 times. Sorry Steve Young is as elite as they get.
Holy bad takes Batman. Young was not a truly great QB? It appears you like “flashy” QB’s based on some of your takes. I’d take Young every day of the week over Elway and twice on a Sunday. I wonder what your take on Brady will be in 20 years time.
I think you are underestimating what a team can do for you. And no, it was not the same team. The 49ers team Young played on in the mid 90s was an all time great team. Even better than Montana's 49ers. I tend to put more value on QBs that can win even on bad teams, like Elway and Marino regularly did
I do prefer QBs with great arms, but Brady is no slouch in that department, his arm strength is underrated. I think mostly I am more impressed by QBs that can elevate their teams play, and win even with bad teams like Elway and Marino regularly did.
He was 1st or 2nd in nearly every measurable QB stat after 3 games. How is that not elite? Does he have to play flawlessly and put up a 158.3 QB rating every game to be considered elite?
Dude.. in 10 years Montana was their primary starter (1981-1990) that SF team won 4 SBs and went to the playoffs 9 out of 10 times. Young's tenure of 8 years led to 1 SB win and 7 out of 8 playoff appearances. Clearly Montana's team was far more impressive in what counts most: SB wins. That's not debatable. In terms of win% it's similar. Montana had a 72% win% while Young had 73% in the regular season. Average defensive ranking was slightly better for Montana: 5.1 vs. 6.4. You're not going to find a clear metric where Young's SF was better, except at the QB level. So again.. do you think Montana was a great QB? If yes, Steve Young is at around a similar level. Statistically Young > Montana in overall efficiency, but Montana > Young in playoffs. Actually Montana is #1 adjusted rating all time in playoff efficiency with minimum 150 attempts.
I think they were both great QBs, never said they weren't. I just don't think they were as great as Elway or Marino since neither of them showed they could play great on bad teams. Elway and Marino did do that year in and year out. The difficulty level for QB play decreases tremendously when the team around them is great. It's basically like playing on easy mode. I think you focus too much on stats.
Stats are pretty reliable when you have massive (i.e., career 3000+ attempts) sample size. Regardless, it would have been nice had you said from the outset you acknowledge Young is a great QB because it sure sounded like you disputed that.
Let’s just say, for the sake of conversation it was only 1 quarter. Down 21 points in the 4th quarter, throwing 4 touchdowns to come back to win, against a top tiered defense…there is a term for that…and that is a clutch player. I was always under the impression that elite quarterbacks were clutch players when it counted. I’m just saying.
Because after game 3 his stats now include the 4th quarter and game 3. His play was not great in game 1, the offense was stagnant, they scored like 13 points. Rinse and repeat game 2, until the magical 4th quarter. Then his good game 3. Please don't act like he was playing great football the entire season.
Statistically he was though, he was efficient just not flashy. Game 1 was the first in a new system and he looked pretty good and it was a performance to give optimism. He ended the game with a passer rating of 104.4. Even with the new rules etc the average passer rating has been in the low 90's for the last few years. Game 2 he didn't have a great start but was lights out in the second half. It's wasn't just the long throws to a wide open Tyreek though, the TD passes to Gesicki and the winner to Waddle were excellent throws. Passer rating was 124.1 Game 3 against the Bills. The offence didn't have the ball a whole lot but again it was efficient when it did have it. I can remember 1 bad throw from the 18 he attempted but other than that thought he played very well again. Passer rating was 123.8, nearly the same as the Ravens game. Game 4 I thought he looked good until he made that bone head throw deep to Tyreek, that's when his lack of arm strength showed. The pass right before it to Gesicki that was placed just over the LB was a great throw. He also had a sure TD dropped by Edmonds and Waddle dropped a couple that stalled a drive that had to settle for a FG. Yes it's all if's and but's but I'm only highlighting them to show that he was doing his job well again before the injury. First real low passer rating of the season at 52.7 So it's not just 1 great quarter that has pushed his stats up, he's actually played very, very well all season. He's been playing like a top 10 QB this year before the injury but he just doesn't make many flashy highlight clip plays. His efficiency, accuracy, touch and anticipation have all been outstanding. For me the only question left and it's a huge question is his durability. If he can learn to protect himself, throw the damn ball away and stay on the field I honestly believe we have found our QB for this system. Durability may end up being his downfall but at this stage I don't think his lack of arm strength, lack of athletic talent etc will be the thing that stops him being a franchise QB.
Just make sure that you scrutinize all of the other QBs that Tua is being compared to. Josh Allen choked repeatedly in the red zone against us and was not very good most of the game against the Ravens. If you are going to through out the good play by Tua and focus on the lesser play, then do it for all QBs. Every QB has stretches above and below their average.
Uh, no. I'm not talking about other QBs. I'm not comparing Tua to other QBs. I'm looking at Tua and the Dolphins. This season, he looked no different through the first 7 quarters of this season. I was very encouraged by the 4th quarter and game 3, but getting knocked out of game 4 was it for me. Tua's just too fragile. How can a franchise depend on his body to hold up? Sucks, but it is what it is.
They held Josh Allen to one TD pass and 213 yards. The Ravens have allowed 8 passing TDs, SIX were by Tua. 0 by Mac Jones, 1 by Flacco, and 1 by Allen.
You are comparing Tua to an ideal QB that does not exist. No QB is perfectly consistent. Makes no sense to complain that Tua isn't doing something that no QB has ever done.
