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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    What's even lazier is Tua's throws and your take. Tua in terms of turnover worthy plays was top 10 in the league in 2020, top 5 in 2021, and currently 2nd in 2022. It's a problem. Tua off script is a TERRIBLE thing. Pure panic and pants shi*ting.
     
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  2. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    He’s thrown 3 interceptions in 4 games? He had a rating of 105.9 on the season and even his “****” game had a rating of 92.7 which is above average in the NFL. If his “****” games still end up above average then we will win a lot of games.

    I wish fans would stop focusing on every single negative play Tua makes and actually look at the stuff he does well. It’s almost like Tua is the only QB in the NFL that makes bad plays with some people.
     
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  3. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    You see, this what causes me to shake my head in confusion…

    First 3 games of the season that Tua played, he led the league in qbr, Hill and Waddle were 1st and 3rd respectively in receiving yards in the league and we were 3-0.

    What MORE do you want from a quarterback?

    You know, and it’s just my opinion, it surely seems to me that if a quarterback isn’t putting up 350+ yards per game…if a quarterback isn’t throwing at least 4 touchdowns per game…if a quarterback isn’t throwing a 50+ yard bomb every quarter, “you guys” deem him as average.

    We had a 270+ page discussion concerning Tannehill and how he “sucked” where I was on the supporting side of Ryan. Even though Tennessee was winning…even though Tannehill was leading the league in YPA, even though Tennessee went to the playoffs 4 years in a row, even dominating the Chiefs the first half of the game, Tannehill was still just “average” in the eyes of so many.

    To tie these two together, Tannehill was the RIGHT quarterback for the Titans and Arthur Smith’s offense, Tagovailoa is the RIGHT quarterback for the Dolphins and McDaniel’s offense.

    It’s not elite stats that makes a quarterback elite…it’s elite PLAY that makes them elite because at the end of the game, the ONLY stat that matters is the scoreboard.
     
  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The argument goes round and round because one side doesn't think that Tua will be elite. The other side seemingly does. They present all these stats, which in turn cause the other side to present stats and facts that dispute that.

    Listen, myself and a number of others have repeatedly stated that we believe the barring injury, Tua will have a decent career, and will have a reasonably lengthy career. That, however, isn't a franchise QB. That's Ryan Fitzpatrick.

    Myself, the 4th quarter and then the following game finally gave me hope that Tua was the QB you all had been telling me he was. Then the concussion controversy, and now my concern is truly whether or not concussions are going to severely shorten his career. Some think we should still be attempting to upgrade Tua, because of his deficiencies, while the other side believes he's the future.
     
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  5. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    We've had 1 good quarter of offense, that is reality. The rest has been average or below, that is another fact. Facts and reality are not criticism, they are just facts and reality.

    Personally I like Tua, but he does have short comings.
     
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  6. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Only one?
    I think people \ fans want points. Yards are great, but they don't win games.
     
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  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yup. Other than that 4th quarter, this offense has struggled to put up points.
     
  8. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Leave Justin Herbert alone.
     
  9. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The one good quarter is one of the more absurd things in this thread. So, a "good" quarter is 4 TD passes. Got it. Who else has even had a good quarter this year then?

    The QB that currently is top 5 in QBR (#3) and Passer rating (#4), has the highest average per attempt (#1), is tied for the 5th most 40+ yard completions with multiple games missed, has only played one good quarter in 5 games. Do you guys even read what you write? I am really looking forward to the you're "cherry-picking" stats, or the I don't care what the stats are I "know" what I see arguments. Because those stats are so esoteric, and stats aren't quantifiable results.

    The best thing is I agree with some of it. Tua has a lot of room for improvement. Ask yourself, if he does, what will that look like statistically?
     
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  10. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua "off script" threw his only touchdown pass on Sunday night and looked smooth doing it.

    Next.
     
  11. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    "Tua is a one read quarterback incapable of playing off script..."



    I see one read, two read, scramble, third read, facemasked, fourth read, touchdown.
     
  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    So your belief is one of absolutism, that is someone says he's a "one-read QB" that means that Tua NEVER EVER goes through his reads?

    No, what they mean is, the QB struggles the more reads they have to go through. Like, no one is saying he can't go through his reads. The guy is an NFL QB, he had to be able to go through his progressions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
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  13. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Points matter, not yards. Take out that one good quarter and what are his stats? It seems absurd to base comments on one quarter out of 16. I feel certain neither then team, coach, nor Tua are happy with 16 points.
     
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  14. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Was the "off script " play throwing to the check down? I think that was designed.
     
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  15. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Chargers have same record as the Dolphins, not sure why bashing Herbert.
     
  16. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This post makes it seem like you don't really understand how points are scored, or what QBs do. You are doubling down on the one good quarter thing huh? I can safely skip your posts then. Have a good one.
     
  17. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    LOL yet you can't explain why more points are not being scored. Sorry, your feelings got hurt. You can be happy with with ratings and yards, I'll be happy with more points scored. You do understand his leading team to more points would make his ratings go up right???
     
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  18. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The pocket collapsing immediately and Tua rolling to left was designed? Where do you guys come from?
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Having a dump off option for a collapsed pocket is almost always designed into a play, is it not?
     
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  20. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Passing yards don't matter that much. Passer rating (which is an efficiency metric) does. Passing yards has a 0.31 correlation to win% over NFL history which translates to 9.6% of variation in win% explained by passing yards. Passer rating has a 0.63 correlation to win% which translates to about 40% of the variation in win% explained. That's a huge difference: 40% to 10%.

    So it's passing efficiency, not passing yards, that matter for winning. Of course Tua's passing efficiency has been very high this year (currently a 105.9 which is #4 in the league). Yes, that's inflated by one quarter, but everything counts. Can't dismiss that quarter. We'll see how this plays out by season's end.
     
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  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he brings him up more than anyone. It's really quite odd.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2022
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  22. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    The game winning Waddle TD vs the Ravens wasn't his first read. We have seen him do it this year and in the preseason. That is a dumb and lazy criticism.

    It was all one read last year because they didn't have a competent offense or offensive line.
     
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  23. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I like Tua if he keeps this up he's a franchise QB. I just don't think he'll have a long career because I don't think he'll change his game.
     
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  24. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I agree we need to score more but let me take a shot at the why. Sometimes the game just doesn't dictate that. This isn't Madden. Points can be a function of field position or lack of field position. In a couple of these games we've been in behind the 10 yard line. Not sure what the % is of points eventually scored from the 10 yard line is. I'm thinking to not often.

    Points are a function of drops and penalties. We've has several nice drives stall because of penalties having nothing to do with the QB. They also are a function of key injuries and possible time of possession or lack of. That would be on the Defense or lack of.

    Points like wins are not just a function of the QB. But it doesn't matter because a couple of people have staked out their absolute positions and it won't change.

    BTW - I'm happy with wins more than points. But I also would be happy with more points too.
     
  25. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Right, the team scoring the most points always wins.
     
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  26. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    The play was designed in the event that if the play does not work as planned he can check it down, he checked it down... That should not be that hard to understand.
     
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  27. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Thanks Captain Obvious. LoL

    How many points is enough points. One more than the other team. There's my Capt. Obvious saying.
     
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  28. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Him escaping the pocket and rolling out wasn't.
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, are we really at the level where we're praising basic QB skills?
     
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  30. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Are we really at that level where were dissing basic QB skills?
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not dissing anything about anyone.
     
  32. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Uh yeah, since people here seem to think that if Tua's first read isn't open he panics and doesn't know what to do. Do you guys even read what you write sometimes?
     
  33. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You liked this post claiming exactly that.

    I know you whenever you same three guys see each other's names you automatically like the post. But, do you actually read what is written?
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't think finding the checkdown receiver when trouble happens, means "going off script." I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, obviously it isn't designed in the play for exactly what the QB is going to have to do, but the checkdown is designed. He knows it's there, or roughly where it should be.
     
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  35. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Also, not that you even deserve any sort of response, butv that specific post, I "liked" it because I liked the first part of the post. I don't necessarily agree that he panics after his first read, but his worst decisions, to me, often seem to be when he has to hold the ball longer.
     
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  36. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Well...We're 4-0 in the games that he has started and finished. I hate that he got hurt against the Bengals..WHo knows if we would have won that one or not, but we're winning games with him and that's all I care about right now. To me, he's more than a placeholder or game manager. He's not Jay Fiedler and I think he's better than Ryan Tannehill. Do I think he's elite in the way that a Patrick Mahomes is? No, but Tua is a damn good quarterback and this team plays on a different level on both sides of the ball when he is the starter. I don't think the argument at this point should even be if he's elite or not. Was Warren Moon elite? Was John Elway an elite quarterback? What is elite? Elite the term is damn near a subjective term at this point. In fact, I don't think it should even be thrown around the way it is these days. In my time since watching football, the elite quarterbacks I have watched play (in my opinion) have been Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Patrick Mahomes. The list in my opinion is a very short one. Steve Young was a great quarterback, Drew Brees, Joe Montana, Ben Roethlisberger, Brett Favre, Elway, Moon...All terrific, just absolutely great quarterbacks, but there's another level slightly above those guys and that's where Marino, Manning, etc sit. Even today, I don't consider Josh Allen "elite"...He's special, that's for sure. He's going to be great. Same with Burrow. Both could eventually reach elite status, but it's a high mountain to climb. Mahomes is just an alien....A machine at the position. Same way Peyton was. As great as Allen and Burrow are, I would say Mahomes still has the edge.
    In regards to Tua, I can say that I don't see him EVER being an elite level quarterback, but I think he can be as good as Warren Moon was. I think he's similar to Drew Brees in a lot of ways, he's got some Russell Wilson in him as well. You take any one of them in their prime happily in my opinion.
    We were lucky to have Marino. Can we win with Tua? Yes, I think we can. Is he capable of having some all pro seasons as a quarterback? YES...Absolutely. We're 4-0 with him, the offense functions so much better when he's out there, I'm not sure what more you can ask for out of quarterback at this time.
     
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  37. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Very good post and you're 100% right- who cares if someone is elite? Because even when we KNOW someone is elite, that's still not a guarantee of winning. Here's my favorite quote from Michael Jordan-

    "I’ve missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I’ve lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I’ve been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I’ve failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
     
  38. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    He didn't really "roll out." He moved forward in a completely open pocket, and then moved forward in the direction of throw, which was the sideline. The level of difficulty wasn't that high. I know you want it to be, but this is basic stuff.
     
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  39. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    some people on here seem to think the team with the most yard wins, so apparently not so obvious.
     
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  40. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    "He's not as bad as Jay Fiedler and I think he's better than Ryan Tannehill"
    This is where I am on Tua. He has missed some open deep guys. Waddle in Bengals game. Hill last game, but I like his intelligence and him as a person.
     
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