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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder



    Dunno what it will take for people to get onboard.
     
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  2. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Not until he does it in a tornado against the '85 Bears defense.
     
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  3. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Well you have to remember that he's at least 10 yards behind the LOS. He's had 10 passes for 30+, 5 for 40+ and 1 for 60.
     
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  4. Pennington's Limp Arm

    Pennington's Limp Arm Well-Known Member

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    He is literally the best QB in the league this year.
    Dolphins are a perfect 5-0 in games he took over 50% of offensive snaps.
    The Next coming of drew Brees... Yet this debate rages on. Okay.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
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  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What’s your expectation of him? Of course hopefully taking context into play in his first two years
     
  6. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Passing this year by game against the Lions - 239, 308, 250, 320, 188 and 191. So they don't get carved up like you think they do.
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Meanwhile, Herbert is #15 in passer rating this year with a 91.8 rating mid-way through the season. League average so far is 89.5.

    If Tua ends this year in the upper echelon, then only he and Burrow will have demonstrated the ability to play a season at elite level (Burrow is currently #6 and ended #2 last year). It means we chose the right QB.

    The criticism of Grier is going to have to slowly dissipate too if Tua was the right choice. Getting McDaniel, Hill, Waddle and Tua to fix our offense is pretty impressive. Yes, Grier makes a lot of bad decisions, but getting that core right is a massive feather in his cap.
     
  8. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    4th quarter QB rating:

    Tua: 137.2

    Herbert: 76.3
     
  9. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    He threw 6 TDs and 400 yards against the Ravens, so anything less than 8 TDs and 600 yards against the Lions is clearly a bitter disappointment.
     
  10. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Dolphins are currently ranked 16th in points per game even AFTER beating the crap out of the lowly Lions. That's dead average. I'd say offense is still a pretty big concern.
     
  11. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  12. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    That includes 3 games where they had to put in a backup. Meaning they game plan had to be thrown out the Window. The Jets and Vikings games are not indicative of how this offence can perform with Tua.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That's including 3 games relying on a backup QB and a 3rd string QB. In the 5 games Tua fully played in we scored 130 points. That's 26 ppg, which would put us #5 on the list. Offense is not a concern when Tua is healthy.
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    And yet, the title of this thread is "Tua Is Not The Problem", not "Offense Is Not The Problem".

    Curiously, for as much as I disagree with a lot of his trolls, missing three games and losing all of them is their strongest argument. He's wiping away the argument that he's not capable of being elite, but since the best ability is availability, he needs to stay on the field. Those games count, too.
     
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  15. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  16. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. Can't put qualifiers on it like that. Before he was knocked out of Cincy, he was 8-14 with 1 INT, 0 TD, & 52.7 rating. Cincy top 5/6 D. Buffalo team that was missing 8 of 11 starters on defense. You think Tua has the same amount of points vs the Vikings as the Lions? How about against the Jet's defense? Both top 15 defenses. Must be nice to skip those teams.

    These are some small samples with bad teams skewing results.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
  17. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    Are you even a Dolphins fan?

    You did see the dropped TD early in that Cincy game right? Teddy Bridgewater lost them that game in the end. From what you've seen from Tua this year, do you assume he'd do that if he didn't get injured that game?

    Tua wouldn't have looked completely lost against the Jets like Skyler Thompson did and he wouldn't have scuffled against a bad Vikings defense. Skyler Thompson was doing decent with a week of practice then hurt this thumb and Teddy came in and lost the game again.
     
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  18. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    At this point, a lot of fans have written receipts they don't want to revisit. I guess it's easier to hold out and maintain your POV (while constantly moving the goalposts) than it is to say "Hey, I'm happy to be wrong".
     
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  19. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  20. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Only "dropped interceptions" count.

    And yes, Tua would have put up more points against the Jets and Vikings. I don't even think that's a question.
     
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  21. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Are you the only one that is allowed to put qualifiers on your takes?

    If you have watched this offence with Tua under centre and think it's still an issue then I've got to question just what the hell are you watching? Even the Bengals game before he got knocked out we were moving the ball and Edmonds dropped a TD pass that floated into both hands. I thought we were taking too many deep shots that game and was hoping McDaniel would adjust but then Tua got concussed.

    As for the Vikings, the defence was lights out and the offence had about 12 or 13 series I think. I've not doubt whatsoever with Tua under centre and you give our offence that many series it's putting up 30+ points.

    This week is a big test for Tua imho. The Bears pass defence is decent and it will be outside and a bit chillier than he is used to in Miami. I'm hoping McDaniel will run the ball more this upcoming week though as the Bears run defence is putrid.

    If Tua puts up another 100+ QB rating this week I'm hoping this thread just gets shut down.
     
  22. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    The hits keep on comin':

     
  23. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Fine. Tua was knocked out after 40% of the Cinci game was played and we had 6 points on the board. So that's 136 points in 5.4 games = 25.2 ppg, which puts us 6th instead of 5th in points per game. BIG DIFFERENCE!

    Our offense is fine with Tua.

    And unless you have a way of adjusting points scored for every single possible factor that could matter, like injuries on our offense (e.g., OL), and difficulty based on down and distance and time remaining (which btw would make that Ravens game more impressive than it otherwise would be), and unless you can do that for ALL QB's you can't demonstrate this would change the overall ranking. Every QB plays against teams with injuries and against weak defenses. Can't just try to make that adjustment for Tua without doing it for everyone else.
     
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  25. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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  26. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Are you also including defensive TDs like against NE? There was only 13 offensive points in that game. Against Buffalo, they were missing 8 out of 11 starters. That's an aberration, more than normal wear and tear. Those are the only defenses he faced that are good. The other 3 teams here were bottom 20 defenses or lower, with yesterday's team being dead last.

    Still very much TBD with what this offense can do over a large sample of season.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah, no easily available stat to do offensive points only comparison right now (unless it's per drive), but over longer periods of time defensive scores average out. Either way, so far at least our offense is fine with Tua.

    Of course. But that's the only uncertainty left right now: consistency and durability. Given the data we have from the 2022 season you really can't criticize Tua. Just wait it out instead of acting like what Tua did isn't really impressive. It is.
     
  28. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    You stated, "Offense is not a concern when Tua is healthy."

    I'm saying it's still a concern because the sample isn't large enough. Tua faced majority bad defenses, and the good defenses he faced, he put up 13 points, and 21 points against Buffalo while missing 8 of 11 starters on D. Would bet large sums of money this team isn't a top 5 offense over a season sample.
     
  29. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Where are you getting this 8 out of 11 starters for the bills game? They were missing 5 starters, 6 if you want to count White who hasn't played at all this season.

    Who cares anyway? Injuries happen. Miami hasn't had their starting cornerback all year, nobody is crying about it.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, you're putting your own perceptions of me onto me. Ives never said I'm not enjoying his play. This is a forum. To talk about things. I can enjoy his play without being sold that he can be durable. I can't fully enjoy his play when I'm concerned that he could be out of the league every time a rusher comes free.

    Honestly, this place is getting toxic, in that we can't discuss our concerns. That was the entire reason this site was created.
     
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  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    If you want to go through this season with worrying about Tua every time he throws the ball, it's probably not very healthy or very fun for you and you should probably just stop watching. Honestly.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, this is another example of why you are nothing but a troll. You take A FRAGMENT of what I said, turn it into an absolute, misconstrue it, and then make disparaging remarks to me.

    Pound sand.
     
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  33. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    You said you can't enjoy the game because you worry about Tua being carted off the field again every play.

    This is dark and can't seem to be very fun when you're watching.

    I'm serious, consider taking a break.
     
  34. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, that isn't what I said. Again, you take a FRAGMENT of what I said, misconstrue it, and turn it into an absolute, then insult me.
     
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  35. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Where did I "insult" you?

    Relax, guy.
     
  36. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Stop being a condescending *******, how about that? I've not been heated yet in this exchange, but I am now. You're a condescending prick, who twists little pieces of what people say, and then strawman argues the **** out of it. Really, I shouldn't have to block you, you shouldn't be allowed to run around the forum trolling anyone who disagrees with you.

    1. I stated that I couldn't FULLY enjoy Tua's play, when...

    2. A rusher comes free.

    You said that I said I could not enjoy his play. I did not say that. You stated that I said I worried about Tua every time he throws. I didn't say that. You then said that said I was worried he'd be carted off the field every time he throws. I didn't say that.

    You then insult me, almost every post by acting like I have a fragile mental state, and that I shouldn't watch the games because essentially it's too much for me.

    So yeah, pound sand, troll.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2022
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  37. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Let's keep this thread civil, please. We can have opposing opinions. Heck, it'd be boring if we didn't. But in the grand scheme of important things, this doesn't rank. We can disagree with each other. We shouldn't make the mistake of turning one of the more interesting conversations into something unnecessarily unpleasant and ugly.*

    *Y'all made me break out 11 syllables of "u" words; something I swore I'd never do again. Happy now? :no:
     
  38. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Heard this earlier today…

    passer rating thus far this season…

    #3: Patrick Mahomes
    #2: Josh Allen
    #1: Tua Tagovailoa

    Other than continuously winning and leading the league in QB rating, I don’t know what MORE Tua can do to prove he is what EVERYONE said he was prior to being drafted.

    Other than throwing for 1100 yards a game, nine 100 yard TD passes from Endzone to Endzone, throwing the ball at the speed of sound…winning the Super Bowl by 647 points, I guess there’s always going to be the skeptics
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Then tell Exulted to stop strawman arguing everything I ****ing say.

    Sick of this garbage. I made a thread where we could just share positive things about Tua, and he went in there and shat all over it.

    He's a troll.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm not sure who you're arguing with.
     
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