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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    THIS is nonsense. After Chan Gailey’s departure, Flores wasn’t able to attract any bonafide offensive coordinator hence, the internal promotion of Godsey and Studesville to co-offensive coordinators. Co-coordinators??? You mean to tell me you couldn’t choose ONE?

    It’s public knowledge…Flores didn’t want Tagovailoa, he wanted Herbert. When he didn’t get Herbert, he was all in on trying to get Watson.

    The Dolphins were a dumpster fire and the change we have was desperately needed. There’s no way on God’s green earth anyone can convince me that Tagovailoa was the problem with the Dolphins offense last season, not when you see he’s the leading quarterback in the league right now. If Tua was playing like garbage, then ok but the exact opposite is happening.
     
  2. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with anything? There was no sabotage. The point was he tried to build the team around Tua. He got coordinators to build the offense around RPO. The system Tua had in Alabama AND then hired Tua's own QB whisperer. Charlie Frye. The guy who had experience with Tua. If he had no interest in making Tua work, he could have just kept Gailey who ran a much more complex offense that Tua himself said he didn't understand.

    Again, irrelevant to the discussion. Even if he wanted Herbert, it doesn't mean he didn't want Tua to succeed. He wasn't actively sabotaging him. That would actively sabotage himself. Talk all the **** you want about Flores, but all he wanted to do was win, even when he was bribed not to.

    And then there is also this:


     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
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  3. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Bro. They ran the most RPO plays in the league by a LOT and was all about quick passes. Of course it was built to his strengths. Flores just wasn't a good offensive mind, and he also didn't have the best WR and one of the best OTs in the game. Flores was a defensive guy, hence why our defense is struggling. It was 15th in points allowed last year, and so far we are 26th this year.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
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  4. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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  5. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    It’s all relevant!! If what Flores “tried to build” as you put it was his idea of what was best, then he was incompetent. As head coach, he was ultimately responsible and his inability to make Tagovailoa a success, as McDaniel has done is proof he failed Tua and the team
     
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  6. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Flores was pushing for them to trade for Watson and was doing before and during the season
     
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  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    They had a decent WR group. The urge was suck, regardless off how many RPOs. Tua was shot mentally after being under Flores.

    You don't cripple you QB mentally when you've got his back and are building around him. Tua looks completely different this season.
     
  8. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I wouldn’t believe Omar Kelly even if he said water was wet.
     
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  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Genius!!
     
  10. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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  11. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    This right here just invalidates your previous post that Flores wasn’t wanting Watson.

    Show some consistency
     
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  12. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It also says that Flores did not foster a good relationship with Tua, which does in the face of those who argue that Flores was doing everything he could to get Tua to improve and be successful.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I agree with that GM that Tua has reached his ceiling of being #1 in the most important QB performance metrics. Really hard to improve on that btw. I also agree he needs Hill + Waddle to do that.

    What I think you're getting a bit tickled over is this quote:
    Just so it's clear (because I think you're thinking this) Herbert hasn't yet shown the ability to perform anywhere near as well as Tua based on key performance metrics so he's not a candidate for any hypothetical replacement for Tua. Mahomes yes, Herbert no.
     
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  14. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    And? The argument isn't about Grier its about Flores. So not only did he try to get rid of him and not only did he have a terrible relationship with his QB but he also dividing the locker room on their QB. And you know the division is Flores is fault because the players love him ow. Clearly Tua didn't have bad work ethic either which is what we hearing and that is also obviously some Flores BS.

    Also you have said this

    And

    Obviously very wrong but my point is I can't blame you for being so unbelievably wrong because our head coach got the absolute minimum out of him and the biggest fans and haters should be in agreement about Flores doing a terrible job with Tua.

    A competent attempt about building an offense would have probably led to you knowing they could be good and he could be good but maybe not good enough which would be a reasonable take. Instead you are in so deep you feel compelled to defend Flores.
     
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  15. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Ermmm where did I say Flores didn't want Watson? I'll wait here while you stumble over yourself. What I said was Flores didn't sabotage Tua, tried to make Tua successful by hiring coach a he had experience with, and built a system to his strengths.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2022
  16. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    And? Completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether Flores sabotaged Tua. He built a system and hired coaches tailored to Tua. Keep trying though.

    Well unfortunately the defensive talent went backwards. Way backwards. They sold out the defense to add to the offense. The team added the best WR in the game and one of the best OTs in the game. Tua had an additional offseason where he worked his butt off. The offense get better, but it's no powerhouse. Unfortunately a victory lap for some games against poor defenses isn't enough to change my opinion of him. He still hasn't been able to stay healthy a season and he still hasn't done enough against actual competition. Tua will show his true self not tomorrow against one of the worst defenses in the league, but against the better ones (Bills, Jets, NE).
     
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  17. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    And Grier has nothing to do with that discussion. Keep trying though.

    Building a system for a QB you are are trying to dump and everyone knows it. That is really bending over backwards for your QB.
     
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  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Flores was a terrible offensive coach, and he did not create an environment that allowed Tua to flourish and progress.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    Those things aren't mutually exclusive- you can build a shaky relationship with someone while also trying to get the best out of them. It's called being a lousy coach.

    From what I've read over the past year, Flores just wasn't a good communicator when it came to building relationships with players and staff. That doesn't mean he couldn't coach defense (which was obvious) or couldn't fill a head coaching role...he just needed great assistants that could carry him in the communication department. That doesn't mean he was a bad guy either.

    Looking back, I was furious when we fired Flores. Now I'm pretty thrilled about it. I wish we could have kept him as a defensive coordinator but other than that, I think we made the correct moves.
     
  20. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Flores was a guy who didn't care about personal relationships in the course of doing his job. He always wanted more, which I can appreciate. The problem comes when other players pay attention to how you handled Kenny Stills, Kyle Van Noy, and others. It becomes apparent quickly that your worth to him is solely based on how well you played in your last game. On one hand, it's good to know where you stand with somebody. On the other, knowing that your coach won't go to bat for you makes things like X's holdout much easier to justify as business decisions.

    I was also upset when we fired him, but I liked his record as coach much more than I cared for him as a coach.
     
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  21. Dolphin Dundee

    Dolphin Dundee Well-Known Member

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    Looking back i hated that Minkah wanted out of Miami after saying he would play anywhere. But knowing Flores he probably just said STFU and do what i tell you instead of working with him so no wonder he left.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If you alienate your players, then you are a bad coach.

    Flores was a bad coach.
     
  23. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    If you alienate your good players you’re a bad coach.

    Nothing wrong with alienating the slackers and no-hopers. Of course this implies you can actually recognize a good player when one is standing in front of you *cough* Minkah *cough* Tua *cough* Van Noy *cough*.
     
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  24. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Tua looks terrible again!
    WTF!
     
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  25. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    McDaniel sabotaged Tua!
     
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  26. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Anybody that defends Tua after last 2 weeks needs to shut the **** up!
    He is the reason we are 0-2 and definitely will be0-3
    On
     
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  27. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I'm an so pissed and disappointed!
     
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  28. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    Officially out on Tua. Take away the middle of the field and he's worse than Sam Darnold.
     
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  29. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, I don't understand why it took teams this long. Maybe because the teams he played well against were so bad and didn't see it. However, Tua is a small pocket passer. He doesn't throw to the sidelines well because he doesn't have the arm strength. He doesn't throw well running because he doesn't have the arm strength. He needs his feet set. He can't throw to the sidelines from the middle. All he can do is throw middle. Take that away and it's OVER. Buffalo is going to KILL him.
     
  30. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    He doesn't do any one thing at an elite level.
     
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  31. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    He’s done. No excuses.
     
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  32. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    What an overreaction. These last 2 games don't suddenly negate the elite play before that. Allen had a 3-game stretch this year where he played like crap too. Not excusing Tua here. He lost these last 2 games for us. But that doesn't mean he isn't the answer at QB. Needs to prove it though.

    One thing it looks like however is he's no longer the league's leading passer. Based on a quick calculation I think Tua's rating is now 108.2 while Hurts' rating is 108.4. So I think Tua's #2 now.
     
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  33. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Pressure it seems Tua can't handle.Meaning mental pressure.I don't expect him to get any better as the pressure mounts!
    What a disappointment as I truly feel this loss will cost us playoffs.
     
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  34. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    How many games does he have to play terrible for you to stop with this crap? He's a bad QB and it's not going to change. He's going to play even worse next week in the cold Buffalo weather on Saturday night football.
     
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  35. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    It's not going to get any better for Tua because he'll be playing in the cold 2 games, and 3 out of 4 games are against top defenses. It's really not rocket science for defenses. Take the middle of the field away. Tua just was able to stack up great numbers against mostly terrible defenses. McDaniel is severely limited in his playcalling, as Flores was, and as any coach will be with Tua. The NFL isn't a place for physically limited players.
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    I for sure need to see a LOT more games like this. He's shown massive improvement in his 3rd year. I don't expect everything to be perfect in year 3 though. But he showed the improvement I think you wanted to see.

    You know there are a lot of QBs that played terribly for a long time early in their career before lighting it up. Don't think you know the future after 2 crappy games. Yeah I'll give Tua time to prove himself (either way).
     
  37. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Tua needs to wear extra padding and one of those large bubble helmets because Matt Milano is going to murder him.
     
  38. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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    This is 2 in a row but it's not just 2. He's awful in big games and under pressure. Last year vs Titans and previous year vs Buffalo.
     
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  39. Berezo

    Berezo Well-Known Member

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    Lamar Jackson shows interest in coming here next year. What do you do?
     
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