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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Tua on these shows is a square peg in a round hole. I think he's very polite, respectful, and kind. However, funny, confident, and comfortable in these situations he is not. Agent/marketing is pushing this. They are going to need to regroup and come up with a better plan with a couple bridges burnt.
     
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  2. Fishhead

    Fishhead Well-Known Member

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    Florio and Simms can go pound sand. Why Tua’s people would schedule an interview with those two jagoffs is beyond me, since all they do is trash the guy. He could win back to back Super Bowls and Simms would still trash him, because he’s so desperate to be right about him.
     
  3. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Cancelling on Florio and Simms? Greatest thing Tua has ever done.
     
  4. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    With the national media, they're going to chase the story. For Tua, the story should be that he led the league in passer rating and several key passing metrics up until he was injured. However, the "real story" at the moment is how concussions will effect him, how he'll try to stay healthy, how long will he have a career, etc. These are not questions Tua would want to talk about for obvious reasons- not only does he not have the answer, but they diminish what was actually a solid season.

    The "questions Tua wouldn't answer" were likely about concussions, and he's not looking to be the poster boy for that. Nobody should blame him either since that's not what NFL athletes are paid to do. The same sort of goes for Hamlin- he hasn't talked about dying on the field in depth because his agent made it clear that was off the table.

    Any player deserves the same consideration going into interviews- it's okay for some topics to be off-limits and you can't trust the media to act in the player's best interests.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Actually the eye manipulation that Tua does is next level but it’s not moving him thru his reads.

    Even though he is manipulating defenders in the play his peripheral is still focused on throwing to the first receiver in the progression..

    He does have an uncanny talent to not have to look directly at his target to throw to him.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol

    I guess you don’t count accuracy and touch as arm talent

    Jalen hurts is not someone anyone would describe as special arm talent

    Herbert absolutely
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I will go on the record and say this

    If Tua does not learn when to cut a defense with his legs then we will never win a Super Bowl and he absolutely has not learned the skill in three years
     
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  8. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Sounds familiar
     
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  9. DolPhinPhan7

    DolPhinPhan7 Well-Known Member

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    As a post mortem on the season, I see that second half against Green Bay as to point where the season stopped being fun.

    We had relatively ugly Ls in California followed by an excellent snow game in Buffalo.

    You host weakened Green Bay team on Christmas and the Dolphins are absolutely routing them until a Mosert fumble. Then suddenly in the second half Tua can't recognize a Dolphins Jersey. We find out that's because of another concussion no one really noticed.

    That last concussion doesn't happen and this season pans out a lot different. A healthy Tua was good enough to have this team go deep in the playoffs. I also suspect that if they take the L against the Bengals and start Teddy, Tua would be with us all season.
     
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  10. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    I'm not going to get into who's better yada yada yada. I like Tua and hopefully with enough down time he can get clear of the concussion bug. With that being said, at the draft I wanted a OL or skill player with that early pick and grab Hurts in a later round and I didn't want anything to do with Herbert. I'm still not sold on Herbert. Yeah he's got the big arm, but I still don't think he's got the brain to take it to the next level. Tua is good when he's healthy, Hurts is good and has developed nicely, and Herbert is putting up lots yards but not a lot of results (maybe he's just slow to develop and it will click eventually, or maybe he's just Phillip Rivers 2.0).
     
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  11. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Wonderlic
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    thats fair man..on all parts
     
  13. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Well technically I believe God created a chicken.
     
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  14. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    Rank 7

    Tua Tagovailoa
    Miami Dolphins · Year 3


    2022 stats: 13 games | 64.8 pct | 3,548 pass yds | 8.9 ypa | 25 pass TD | 8 INT | 70 rush yds | 0 rush TD | 6 fumbles


    2021 final ranking: 22 | 2020: 28


    Tua's heady numbers and sky-high marks from PFF tell the tale of a player who largely answered his critics. What about the deep ball? Would he simply be benched for Teddy Bridgewater by Halloween? Instead, he teamed gorgeously with Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle, elevating his worth in a quarterback-friendly scheme run by young wizard Mike McDaniel. His ghastly prime-time performance against the Chargers raised weather-worn questions, but the bigger concern is Tua's future in football after a series of concussions.
     
  15. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Really? He was the QB on a pass oriented team that finished in the top 5 in all important stats and the offense sucked without him.....
     
  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The offense also sucked with him, I'm not sure why people want to gloss over this. He also missed like 1/3rd of the season, and I'm not convinced that we wouldn't have seen his rating fall even further had he played in those games.

    So yeah, that's my position.
     
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  17. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    So people like yourself that absolutely hate Tua with every ounce of hatred they possibly have are going to say things like this, while people that support what he did this year are going to say the opposite. The "what ifs", and "we would have done this", "That would have been a" really need to stop. Whether you support him and the team or absolutely loathe him the way you do, it really is a waste of time to speculate what would have happened just to support an agenda. I think there eventually needs to be some common ground between both stances. In the end, what does it all matter? If you're right and Tua is complete trash like you think he is, then it only means that the franchise is set up for yet another rebuild. Congrats on being right, the team still sucks and we can all watch Burrow, Hurts, and Herbert run the league while we continue to try and find a quarterback. Or...Maybe Tua gets there, and we are a perennial contender for the next ten years. Will that be good enough? Or does he have to win multiple Super Bowls? There are a lot of great quarterbacks that have never won a Superbowl. I know of one right off the top of my head. I know quite a few more that have only won one. I mean...What exactly would it take for you to change your stance and are you even capable of admitting that you are wrong? I'm generally curious about that. What would it take? 18-0 record? 65 tds and 0 picks on the year? A Super Bowl win over the opposing team 48 to 0? The true correct answer is nothing! People just hate the guy because he's not who they wanted.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    FYI, I stopped reading after your first sentence.

    I do not "hate" Tua. I have CONSISTENTLY stated that I think that barring career ending injury, that he will have a decent NFL career.

    I don't think Tua is "elite.". I think that Tua is a GOOD QB that when surrounded with talent, can put up elite numbers. He's Nick Foles. Maybe with a little more consistency.

    But as it stands, Tua has ONE NFL season with great stats, but they are in themselves misleading, because he missed so many games at the end of the season.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2023
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  19. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen many on here claiming Tua is complete trash. The criticism is he has limitations in terms of arm strength, athleticism, football IQ, and durability. He is a good QB with good accuracy and anticipation that can play well within the system Mcdaniel devised for him, but those limitations keep him from being the franchise QB we need, that is the problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2023
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  20. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I can agree with that. I see the same issues. So you do see a good quarterback? I know I do.... Again, I don't see greatness like Patrick Mahomes (we agree there). I don't think he's on the level that Herbert and Allen are on. Physically he's definitely not. Durability has been my biggest issue with him. To me he's Warren Moon (remember him)? Moon was pretty doggone good. Moon played into his 40s though, Tua may not make it in the league past 30. There's still a lot of questions to be answered. I just don't get the point of cheering when he does bad just to prove a point. I guess the same can be said for when he does good.
     
  21. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Ok, definitely an overreaction on my part. I can't say I don't ever do that. You make valid points. I just know that there are some on here that would rather see him fail than be wrong about him. All in all I think this year was a step in the right direction. I mean, he took a leap actually and then took two steps backwards after. It was a frustrating way to end the season. I still don't trust that we have our guy, so I get it. Neither do you. My bad.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No worries, man!

    At the end of the day, we all want the Dolphins putting the best players they can on the field, so that they can compete for championships.
     
  23. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Going to be pretty interesting to see what the Dolphins do with his option.

    If they don't pick that up, the media is going to have a lot of ammunition that the organization isn't behind him.
     
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  24. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    shouldn’t be interesting at all. A shedload of less productive QBs have had their options picked up and it isn’t like we’re sitting with the #1 pick and there’s a sure fire future HoF QB coming out for this draft.
     
  25. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    What QBs are you referring to and was it a good decision?
     
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  26. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Unless the team believes some elite option would be there next year to trade for which seems unlikely I don't see a good reason to not pick it up. Mid tier starter money wouldn't prevent them from drafting a replacement and on the flip side keeping him would just cost them more money if the option wasn't picked up.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It would be utterly stupid for the Dolphins to not pick up the 5th year option for ~$23 million. Guys like Wentz, Goff, Ryan, Tannehill, Cousins, Prescott are all going to make more in 2023 (the best you can compare to), and there's no viable replacement, especially since we don't have much draft capital. Yeah I agree that it would send a chilling message if the Dolphins don't pick up the option.

    For better or for worse we're stuck with Tua the next 2 years. Hopefully for the better, but if it's for the worse then we need absolute clarity on that, not like with Tannehill who stayed on way longer than he should have.
     
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  28. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Ryan Tannehill for one. I’d say it was a good decision, the poor decision was the HC choices we made. Not saying RT17 was going to be a HoFer or anything like that but he was a hell of a lot better than QB purgatory or rolling the dice and ending up with Josh Rosen.
     
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  29. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Yea that always bothers me when people say we hate Tua and want him to fail.I can speak for myself I bleed Aqu and Orange but for some reason u can't criticize the QB.Most of our points have been dead on especially the durability issues.Hard to win a division let alone a SB if your QB misses 3-5 games a year.
     
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  30. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I mean you also said Zach Wilson is going to be the real deal and a superstar in this league.
     
  31. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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  32. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    No one is right is all the time.Except u!
     
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  33. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Picking up Tua’s 5th year option is not a subject for debate. Of course the Dolphins are going to pick up his option. There are no free agent quarterbacks the Dolphins could get to replace Tua (if that was even a consideration) that wouldn’t cost the Dolphins astronomically more than Tua’s $23M.
     
  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    No one saying you can’t criticize the quarterback. What drives big picture folks like me insane though is the utter small mindedness and simplification criticism against Tagovailoa has been placed. Let me give a few examples.

    Most of Tua’s criticism derived from the 2021 season when he was starting his first year. The criticisms?

    -Tua is just a one read quarterback
    -Tua can’t throw the long ball
    -Tua can’t extend plays
    -Tua is injury prone

    Those were (and for some folks here still) are the prevalent criticisms against Tagovailoa. I would submit however that only one of those criticisms holds any water.

    Tua’s quick read, quick pass offensive play in 2021 had absolutely NOTHING to do with his abilities many criticized. As I stated, I’m a big picture guy and looking at the big picture, it was the lack of an offensive line to provide more than 1 1/2 seconds of protection and the lack of any offensive plays designed for big plays that were the cause of Tua’s quick read, quick pass play. The offense under Studesville and Godsey was get the ball out quick and let the receivers make plays. That’s not on Tua. That’s on the offensive scheme. Can’t get mad at a player getting passed by Ferraris when you’re driving a VW Beetle.

    This past season under the new offensive scheme implemented by McDaniel, Tua did EVERYTHING that everyone said he HAD to do to prove himself and yet, all of those same criticisms remain. Utterly silly.

    Now as for his injuries this season, both concussions that hampered him. I’m going to put this in simple terms. Everyone know the first check you write on the 1st of the month is for the mortgage. The 2nd check you write is for the insurance. The Dolphins, although they took out a great policy in Armstead, they took out the wrong insurance policy. They should have taken it out on a right tackle. For a right handed quarterback, the LT protects the QB’s blindside but for a left handed QB, it’s the RT. And look who we had protecting Tua’s blindside.

    If the Dolphins are able to capitalize on a solid RT in the off-season and get a solid running back, this offense under Tua will be able to once and for all shut down all of his critics.

    But somehow I have a feeling if Miami were to go to and win the Super Bowl, there would still be those critical of him.
     
  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    "Most points" haven't been dead on. Quite the opposite. It was widely predicted Tua would never show he could play at an elite level, yet he ended #1 in passer rating and in many other key efficiency stats. It was widely predicted Tua would not be able to overcome adversity and "carry" a team to a win, but he did that multiple times. The durability issue is serious no doubt, but no one here has been good at predicting Tua's trajectory in year 3. Arguably most of us have been more often wrong than right.
     
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  36. Fireland

    Fireland Well-Known Member

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    Its because there are many people here that do want him to fail. Blame them for making you look bad.
     
  37. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    The longball quote is not the same thing as arm strength Any QB in this league can throw a long ball.
    It's can u throw outside the numbers.Tua did struggle when they took away the middle of the field at the end of season so I am still not sold if he can do this or not.
    We will find out next year when coaches pick up where other D cords left off.
    So will see what 2023 brings and he must prove he can stay healthy or it's time to move on.
     
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  38. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    The other main criticism was that “he needs his receivers to be Alabama open, he can't do it at NFL open”.

    watching the film from this year it’s clear to most people that Tua is throwing his receivers open by a combination of
    1) Manipulating defenders with his eyes/footwork. I seriously think he’s the best at this I’ve seen since Steve Young.
    2) Throwing with great anticipation before the receiver makes his cut.

    However some critics just point to the amount of separation at the time the receiver catches the ball and put all of that on the receiver and discount what Tua did to make the separation happen.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    How do you determine that TUA took over, and not Hill and Waddle?
     
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