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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    except the Bills game and the pre-concussion GB game.... um, that leaves two games....
     
  2. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You lose all credibility when you start using different criteria for evaluating Tua than other QBs. For you Tua having weapons and throwing the ball quickly are negatives and indicate flaws. The exact same conditions existed for Burrow last season but they are not a problem for Burrow.....

    As soon as you need to use different rules to maintain your opinion about Tua, YOU make it about YOU and not Tua.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  3. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. You cracked the code.... All the "experts" are idiots....

    upload_2023-3-25_7-50-19.png
     
  4. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Haven't I acknowledged that Tua doesn't have great arm strength or mobility? The difference is that you consider them fatal flaws and I don't. The reason I don't is because two soon to be 1st ballot HOF QBs didn't have them either. You are taking the traits of a QB, trying discredit his most recent season of success and projecting failure in the future. I am taking the same traits, enjoying the most recent season of success and projecting success in the future.

    I acknowledge there is no guarantee of future success. I also acknowledge that a QB with all of Tua's excellent trait and a stronger arm and mobility would be better (Patrick Mahomes), but I don't see the point in trying to discredit the success he had last season.
     
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  5. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Then, as I have asked, watch the videos...... they are describing what Tua is doing that is producing the stats. Rather than just waving your hand and saying that Tua "throwing to a spot", tell me what is incorrect about their analysis.

    Seriously, you should have no more comments about Tua until you are willing to address those video breakdowns. They blow up your entire argument about his play for most of last season.
     
  6. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    The videos completely discredit their ridiculous "one spot" argument. They aren't going to watch it. They're gonna roll with "Trent Sherfield said" as some kind of gospel. Trent Sherfield lol. Tua made Sherfield relevant in his career and he wanted to come back. They're totally misconstruing what he said as some kind of mega diss to Tua.
     
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  7. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    For his first two seasons he was endlessly compared to Herbert. Tua was winning but Herbert was putting up better stats. Those stats were used to discredit Tua. This season, the stats suddenly don't matter or are credited to other players.

    That is what he is referring to.
     
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  8. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I know that but they need to be challenged to do more than spout unsupported opinions. Maybe they can learn something.....

    The funny thing is that "throwing to a spot" is also called "throwing with anticipation". Same damn thing. The QB School video RAVES about his elite ability to throw with anticipation. He even says "can't be stopped!"

    These guys think it is a negative. Funniest thing I've seen in a long time. Two or three posters harping on something that is actually a HUGE positive but they simply don't understand....
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  9. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    It's honestly comical that they actually believe, on EVERY pass play, Tua has one predetermined throwing spot, and he throws it to that spot NO MATTER WHAT everytime and can be at the top of the league in all major passing metrics.

    It's honestly bizarre and so misinformed they think that's what's going on here.

    WATCH THE VIDEO BREAKDOWNS.
     
  10. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting this. I had seen it a while back. Around the 3:45 mark, first some other guy then Dilfer are commenting on Tua's elite "anticipation accuracy". I love some of the comments he makes because it uncovers the nuance that some are missing.

    Dilfer quotes:

    "His anticipation accuracy is ridiculous"
    "Tua has very good anticipation accuracy. He can throw receivers open against very good DBs."
    "Quick eyes. He has very, very quick eyes. He can get through his reads exceptionally fast."
    "He can see movement patterns in the secondary better than most people." *******

    The last one is a KEY comment. This is what the detractors don't understand. He is seeing movement patterns and throwing with anticipation accuracy. Those two skills are at an ELITE LEVEL and can get better. They are the reason that he can play at an elite level without a cannon arm. Tua is not watching the receiver and throwing to the guy who gets open. He is watching the field and throwing to where the receiver will be open. That eliminates the need for a cannon arm.

    It is really simple. The QB is trying to get the ball from point A to point B in time for his receiver to catch it and before a defender can get there to break it up. Good receivers are always running routes very precisely. Same number of steps, same speed. They need to get from there starting position to the intended spot very consistently. There are two ways for the QB to make the ball meet up with the receiver on time - Throw it later with greater velocity or throw it earlier with less velocity.

    Some big arm QBs can only throw with velocity. They cannot throw with touch. They cannot layer the ball because higher velocity throws have to be thrown with a lower trajectory. Those can get knocked down by underneath defenders. Also, many QBs cannot throw with anticipation, especially accurately with anticipation. It is incredibly difficult to do consistently. Normally to make an accurate throw, you are aiming at something. QBs that can't anticipate must see the receiver and their path to the spot. That is what the QB is aiming at. Tua is throwing the ball before the receiver breaks towards the spot. There is literally nothing to aim at. It is empty space. That is why it is so difficult.

    I LOL @ the posters claiming he is "just" throwing to a spot. Never once have they answered the question that if it is so easy and leads to top of the league scoring and passing efficiency, "Why doesn't everyone do it?". Of course, the answer is "Because they can't".
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
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  11. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    They won't.....
     
  12. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    TreNt ShErfiELd

    [​IMG]
     
  13. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    One more comment on this. I saw something about Emmitt Smith many years ago discussing his ability to get through holes so quickly. It was described that he had the ability to anticipate where the whole was going to be from the movement patterns in the blocking by the OL. He did not need to see the hole open up before heading to that spot. Despite not being the biggest or fastest RB, he is the career rushing yardage leader.
     
  14. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I highly, highly, highly encourage the doubters to watch the QB School video, especially the deep out that JT goes crazy over. (You'll know it when you see it. He is literally laughing at the ridiculousness of the throw.)

    That play illustrates one other point. Tua has the ability to still make the play when something goes wrong. On that play, the OL messes up the blocking assignments and a pass rusher comes free early in Tua's face. In the blink of an eye, he sees this and throws the ball earlier to avoid the rush. When he does that, HE MUST ADJUST THE VELOCITY of the throw. Otherwise, it will get there too soon and fall incomplete. The throw is lofted higher with less velocity and meets the receiver perfectly on time and accurately. All that was done in an instant. That is not something you can teach. It is an innate ability. There is no thought involved.

    But, you know, just throwing to a spot..... LOL.
     
  15. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Man, this is terrible! Tua out there extending the career of a fringe receiver and the guy goes and throws him under the bus. A simple thank you would have been nice out of old Trent. Oh well, Tua haters that are basically on life support at this point get a much needed gasp of air. They were turning blue.
     
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  16. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Let's see if I understand correctly...instead of me quoting a current player, who has stated what he saw happening, you want my opinion, a guy who never played professional football, and never had Tua throw to me, to discount a talking head? We agree that Tua is "reading the defense" presnap. Shurfield said that.

    Where we disagree is post snap, ands I'll take the guy who played with Tua over the people who have not. Now, if Hill or some other receiver comes out and says that Shurfield is full of ****, Tua does not blindly throw to a spot, then we can talk.
     
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  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You're just making **** up. I'm not using any different criteria.

    Tua does not possess the elite physical tools to be a dual threat. He's a slightly more mobile, but much smaller, version of Tannehill. He's a pocket QB, who is too short and to weak to play it like it should be played, and unfortunately, it seems he's to fragile to take a hit.

    Yes, Tua can play well when everything goes right, and he's got the right players around him. He just doesn't drive the offense. Didn't in college and doesn't in the NFL.

    This season is make or break for Tua. Either he shows that the good/great sections of last year are repeatable, and he shows an ability to overcome clogging the middle...or he doesn't.

    Bottom line: if Tua misses significant time again this coming season, we need to move on from him, and it will have nothing to do with his talent. It doesn't matter how good he truly is, if he continues to miss 3-5 games a season.
     
  18. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    No, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME DAMN THING.

    Shurfield said that Tua throws to a spot, REGARDLESS of where the receiver is.

    That is not throwing people open. That is not throwing with anticipation. That is throwing to the spot that the offense is designed to create an opening at, as if he's on the practice field with no defenders to need with receivers timing.
     
  19. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL at the statement that JT O'Sullivan and Kurt Warner never played professional football.

    For the last time, you are misinterpreting what Sherfield said.

    Literally three different former NFL QBs are saying the same thing. Two are Super Bowl winners and one is in the HOF.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  20. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Watch the QB School video. Please.

    All message board blustering aside. I honestly think you would enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  21. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. This narrative is literally blown up in the QB School video that you refuse to watch and comment on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  22. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    BTW, to the claims that Tua has been "figured out".... Every QB gets figured out. Josh Allen has been figured out. That is evidenced by his numerous poor games over the last few seasons and his league leading number of INTs last season.

    Keep him in the pocket and disguise coverages. That's it. Allen is solved. Tua has been solved. Disrupt the timing of the offense. The trick is doing it. I'd argue that based on the number of games where the QB didn't perform efficiently, Allen is more often solved than Tua.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
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  23. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    He led the league in passing efficiency and YPA last season. And was near the top in nearly every important stat. What are you talking about?
     
  24. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    One of his teammates last year said he was "inventing football". Why is that statement less credible than Sherfield's?

    https://www.thephinsider.com/2023/2...play-a-major-role-in-tua-tagovailoas-skillset

    BTW, that NFL player admitted that he didn't understand the intricacies in what Tua was doing until the film was broken down for him. If an NFL veteran can learn something from film, so can a poster. Watch the videos.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
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  25. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  26. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, Tua doesn't play much. The month of December he had a 80.5 QB rating with a 52.59 completion %. That's 4 games started and finished. Defenses and scouting caught up. He only had 12 of those in the season. So the month of December represents a 1/3rd of Tua's season. That matters no matter how much you don't want it to.
     
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  27. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    2023 QB rankings from Pro Football Network

    upload_2023-3-25_11-4-21.png
     
  28. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    I guess we will see. That includes the post-concussion 2nd half against GB. That is where 3 of the 5 INTs came from. Context matters no matter how much you don't want it to.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Do you struggle with reading, or did you intentionally misrepresent my post?

    I said I NEVER PLAYED professional football. I did not say that Kurt Warner did not.
     
  30. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    It's like you don't understand what pundits do.
     
  31. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Got me, I misread your post.

    Why do you refuse to watch the videos and comment on them here? They all comment on the timing of the offense and spot throws (which confirms the exact words that Sherfield used). They all also talk about him throwing with anticipation and throwing guys open (which refutes YOUR INTERPRETATION of what Sherfield said). They literally show Tua going throw progressions and throwing to his second or third read. That CANNOT HAPPEN if he is always throwing to a predetermined spot. What are you not getting?
     
  32. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. This your final defense of your position - "LA, LA, LA, LA.... I'M NOT LISTENING!!!"

    Do you lack the guts to watch the video and comment here?
     
  33. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    One last try. Where did Sherfield say the determination of which spot to throw to is made pre-snap? Point to the words where he said that, not your interpretation of the words. He said Tua is throwing to a spot. He never says that there isn't 2, 3, or 4 spots that Tua has to choose from. Every receiver on a play has to get to their spot.

    There is only one football, so on a play he can only throw to one spot. That doesn't mean there was only one spot to throw to or that the determination is made. pre-snap.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  34. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Provided nothing catastrophic or drastic changes from last season, here’s my prediction on Tua next season…

    With the signing of Vic Fangio as DC, the Dolphins defense is going to terrorize opposing offenses and by doing so, Tua is going to have even more “at bats”

    Tua’s going to light up the stats boards.

    He going to average close to 309 yards a game for the season and based on a 17 game season, count on Tua’s passing yards coming close to 5000 yards.

    He’s going to average 2 1-2 touchdowns per game for the season which comes to 42/43 touchdowns on the year.

    I can’t wait for the season to start. I can’t wait to see what this defense does, what it gives Tua the chance to do and the number of games were going to win handily.
     
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  35. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Let me blow your mind with one other nugget. The Dolphins offense has choice routes built in. Look that up.
     
  36. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Another year in this offense is going to be awesome.
     
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  37. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I really really hope you're right.
     
  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Again, you're putting words/meanings into what I said. NEVER have I said that there is only ONE spot. I'm sure there are multiple spots that Tua can pick, based on what he sees presnap, at least one for each route the each receiver is running. It sounded to me that Shurfield was saying, if Tua decided presnap to throw at Waddle, he was picking the spot presnap that where he thought Waddle would be open, based on the defensive alignment he saw presnap, and then he was throwing to that spot after the snap, regardless of where the receiver was.
     
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  39. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Not true.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Great insight. What isn't true? You did put meanings into what I said, that I did not intend, and definitely did not say.

    If you are disagreeing with the part about Tua presnap, that's fine, but what I laid out is exactly what Shurfield said.

    Or are you disagreeing that Tua is identifying where the spot will be, based on what he sees presnap, based on the routes being run? If your disagree with that, then you're arguing that Tua isn't reading defenses presnap.
     
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