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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    You can't definitively state the present AND FUTURE, and then say we need more data. Pure nonsense. Just own it.

    And no, no one asked me to clarify my stance. They asked me to amend my stance. Again, you fail massively in understanding nuance.
     
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  2. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Basic reading comprehension, but once it's clear I'm saying we need further evaluation those two claims need to be interpreted as my current beliefs, which they are. But unlike you I am willing to admit there's uncertainty. And yes you were asked to clarify your stance and made it clear there was no uncertainty. Talk about not owning something. Black and white and you can't own it.
     
  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    This is ridiculous. I'm not basing anything off of your bogus stats. That was kind of a ding to make a point and it certainly did. An entire season. Haha. Great. Stats are almost always useless in football because that sample sizes are always going to be too small to make anything close to being predictive. Take this stuff to baseball. At least the sample sizes are closer to being somewhat predictive and useful, but sorry, dude, this is bogus BS. Enough. No point in even bringing it down to these bogus stats. There is no comparison. You know it. You also ignored most of my points. Pick your battles, dude. Herbert is on another level and if he was our QB right now, you would be psyched.
     
  4. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Na. If you need further data then your assertive statements needed to reflect that. As written, you just mentioned additional data as a means to prove your assertions true. Otherwise, you wouldn't have STATED the future for Herbert.

    I have no uncertainty. That doesn't mean uncertainty doesn't exist. If I'm certain I won't win the lottery, it doesn't mean the possibility to win doesn't exist. Keep failing though at nuance and being really good at hypocrisy.
     
  5. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    lol.. those stats I posted must have touched a nerve. Look, I'm saying Herbert's first 3 years are a better predictor of his future success than your focus on cherry picked examples. We'll find out.
     
  6. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    You just repeated the same thing. Totally lame. Yeah, you are most definitely losing your caca.
     
  7. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    My statements were sufficiently qualified, especially after you kept asking me about it. But you can't accept that. And thanks for reinforcing the claim there is no uncertainty for you. That's all I was referring to, not that you're wrong about that and that there is uncertainty. We don't need your opinion to know there is uncertainty. So you see there is no equivalence. There is no uncertainty for you, there is for me.
     
  8. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Yeah join the list of anti-Tua posters that can't argue a point and need to resort to personal insults. I repeated the point because you didn't refute it. You just said it was blah blah blah without providing any evidence against what I wrote.
     
  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    BS!! I did refute it! You still ignored my points, so what's the point in responding to you?... though I did.
     
  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    It's like when "some folk" try to claim that Herbert breaking Marino's record for most TDs in a player's first two seasons or breaking Andrew Luck's record doesn't mean much because you have to adjust for era. That's bogus because, yeah, it may be easier now compared to them, but the thing to remember is, if it is so easy now, why isn't everyone doing it? Why hasn't anyone else done it until now? I mean, why don't scrubs do it? There have been many great QBs to play since Marino, why didn't any of them do it? ...why did it take Justin Herbert to come along and do it? Why didn't the "elite" Tua do it?
     
  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    You didn't refute anything. More sample size is always more predictive than less. That's a basic fact you don't understand. Doesn't matter if you don't have as much sample size as baseball. Using 3 years worth of data is far more likely to accurately predict season 4 than using a few cherry picked examples.
     
  12. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    As soon as anyone holds his feet to the fire with hard evidence that conflicts his own viewpoints he doesn't answer the call, he just ignores it and continues to circle and hedge. He really is the worst poster on the site right now and it's not really close. You can have your own opinion but to act like your the smartest guy in the room and lord it over others that have supported their own opinions much more thoroughly is incredibly insufferable.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Funny you say that. I've been the one actually adjusting all kind of stats for era, only for you to complain about them. In this case you don't need to adjust for era because we're talking about the same era.
     
  14. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, especially with Luck. That only proves my point!
     
  15. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand?? I'm the one who said it. What are you talking about?
     
  16. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    It doesn't prove your point at all. I mean Marino's career passer rating is 86.4, which is below average today. If you don't adjust for era you'd have to argue more than half of all starting QB's today are better than Marino. As far as the TD issue, adjustment for TD's doesn't do much while it's huge for passer rating. When Marino had that record TD in 1984 there were 4.3 TD's per attempt. You know what it is today? 4.2 in 2022, though it was higher at 4.8 in 2021. Point is, adjusting TDs for era doesn't do much. THAT's why it's so hard for anyone to beat Marino's TD record, but quite easy to beat his passer rating.

    Yes it's necessary to adjust for era, though not for this Herbert vs. Tua comparison.
     
  17. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    No you argued against me saying using 3 years worth of Herbert data was better than using cherry picked examples. It's definitely better to use 3 years worth of data, even if it's not as good as 3+ years.
     
  18. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Your statements weren't remotely qualified. ZERO. Your last sentence of future data was a means to prove out your unqualified assertions and future predictions. No amount of backtracking in future posts will change this.
     
  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    lol.. worst poster on the site. I qualified them in the original post and in many many responses afterwards.
     
  20. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    You only qualified them AFTER I pointed out your hypocrisy. I'm cool if you have an assertive statement or prediction. You are the one that moans about it when other posters make them.
     
  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    No. That's kind of incoherent. That's not what said at all. I'm glad you got my point.
     
  22. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Nope. I said we need further evaluation. That shows there is uncertainty to the claim.
     
  23. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Your response is incoherent. My initial response to your claim my stats (which is just passer rating for the first 3 years) were "bogus" is that using 3 years worth of data is better than your cherry picked examples. Now you're saying I got your point by using 3 years worth of passer rating stats? They're not bogus now? Incoherent.
     
  24. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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  25. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    A bit different than you saying I'm losing my caca or him saying I'm a fraud, among a ton of other things he's called me.
     
  26. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Wha?? Yes, certainly incoherent. I really wish there was something to go on here, but...nada. You're just making s--t up.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Nope you're making stuff up. Look at posts 6358 and 6360. Exactly what I claimed:
    Don't forget, the stats in question here are precisely Herbert's passer ratings thus far.
     
  28. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    There was no uncertainty in your statements of "Herbert isn't the answer" or "Herbert isn't the answer, and Chargers fans are going to see that as the years go by." These are definitive.

    You need to structure you sentences better if there was so much uncertainty, or better yet, end the charade and own it.
     
  29. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Far out. You proved exactly nothing.
    Dude, you would love it if Herbert was our QB. You would love it.
     
  30. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Forget it dude. You're not demonstrating the ability to interpret sentences based on context. Also, you're trying to distract from the main point here: you saying there's no uncertainty to me saying there is. THAT is the key issue.
     
  31. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    OK you have no argument. Just empty (and false) assertions. And no I wouldn't love it if Herbert was our QB. Burrow yes, not Herbert. I don't think Herbert will be anything more than a solid above average QB who never gets a SB win. That's the direction the stats are pointing.
     
  32. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Your statement about wanting 2023 to happen doesn't change your definitive statements. Those are you words. You want everyone to act one way, while you act how you'd like. The key issue is your blatant hypocrisy and how you interact and treat other posters.
     
  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Dude.. that's called context. Something you've now repeatedly demonstrated you don't comprehend. And no, there is a difference between you insisting you have no uncertainty versus me saying I'm not 100% certain. You act like there's no difference. There is. You're not going to just keep repeating falsehoods here to somehow convince me otherwise.
     
  34. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    You're either lying or you have no idea what you're talking about. I don't know. This has been fun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2023
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  35. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Just being honest, and we'll see who ends up being right.
     
  36. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    No. You're not. You'd love it.
     
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  37. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    No I wouldn't. I'm amazed you think everyone must think the same way you do about Herbert. That might be the problem here. There are many who aren't convinced he's a great QB. In my case it's based on his performance thus far.
     
  38. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    It can't be. ...but Tua is "ELITE".
     
  39. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Never said that. I said he performed elite in 2022. That's it. We don't know whether he can sustain this.
     
  40. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Ahh. Sure. Yeah. Ok. Now it's a matter of sustaining. Hmm. Which one has a better shot at sustenance?

    — March 2018: During a spring practice before his first full season as Alabama's starter, Tagovailoa hits a lineman's helmet while throwing a pass and suffers a broken left index finger. The injury requires a quick surgery, but he misses no practice time.

    — October 2018: Tagovailoa tweaks his knee during a win over Missouri. It's later revealed that he suffered a knee sprain, but he misses no time and is back in the lineup the following week against Tennessee.

    — November 2018: During a late-season game against Mississippi State, Tagovailoa in the third quarter takes a hit to his left quad, the same leg of his knee injury a month prior. He sits out the rest of the game, an Alabama win, and returns the following week against The Citadel.


    — December 2018: In the fourth quarter of the SEC championship game against Georgia, Alabama left tackle Jonah Williams accidentally steps on Tagovailoa's right ankle and causes an injury. Tagovailoa sits out the rest of the game and eventually has a tightrope procedure performed on his ankle so he can return for the College Football Playoff.

    — October 2019: Tagovailoa suffers another right ankle injury, this time a high ankle sprain during a win over Tennessee. He again opts to undergo a tightrope procedure for a quick recovery. He misses one game (a win over Arkansas) before returning to start in Alabama's loss to LSU.

    — November 2019: Toward the end of the first half of a blowout win against Mississippi State, Tagovailoa suffers the nasty hip injury that prematurely ends his college career.

    — November 2020: Despite having a fairly clean rookie season, Tagovailoa suffers a thumb injury in practice. Thankfully, though, it should only keep him out a single game, a Week 12 matchup vs. the Jets.

    — September 2021: Tagovailoa gets through his rookie season relatively scot-free, but in a Week 2 game vs. the Bills, the Dolphins QB is carted off after a rough hit. He would later be placed on IR with rib fractures.

    — November 2021: Somewhat out of nowhere, Tagovailoa now has a fracture in the middle finger of his throwing hand. He misses the Week 9 matchup vs. the Texans.

    — November 2021: There's some question as to whether Tagovailoa will play vs. the Ravens in a Week 10 "Thursday Night Football" matchup.

    — September 2022: In the Dolphins' Week 3 matchup vs. the Bills, Tagovailoa suffers a back injury, though the team first indicated it was a head injury. He would clear concussion protocol and return to the field in the same game, under questionable circumstances.

    — September 2022: In a Week 4 "Thursday Night Football" matchup vs. the Bengals, Tagovailoa is slammed hard to the ground and suffers another apparent head injury; the passer went rigid after being slammed to the ground, and was placed on a backboard and carted off.


    — December 2022: Tagovailoa suffers his third concussion of the 2022 season after hitting the back of his head on the turf late in the first half vs. the Packers in Week 16. Tagovailoa is not removed from the game, in which he throws three second-half interceptions. He is only confirmed to have a concussion following the game.
     
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