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Tua is not the Problem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Definitely a serious concern. It's really Tua's durability issues vs. whether Herbert can play elite. We'll see.
     
  2. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Ok.
     
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  3. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    " Herbert was named the AP NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year, Most passing yards (9,350) through the first two seasons of a career in NFL history. Most completions (839) through the first two seasons of a career in NFL history. Los Angeles Chargers single-season records for touchdowns (38), passing yards (5,014), and completions (443)".
     
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  4. Dorfdad

    Dorfdad Well-Known Member

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    who gives a flying turd. Does he have a Super Bowl win, does he have a deep playoff run? No those are individual accomplishments and while they are nice I’d rather have a team that wins stop all this Superman **** the kids good but hasn’t proven to be a game changer ever.
     
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  5. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    That makes little to no sense at all, but thanks. Solid contribution.
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    This is where statistical analysis comes in, including adjusting for era. Most important passing stats are efficiency stats like passer rating and ANY/Y. Efficiency stats correlate much better with winning than volume stats, which is what you listed. It's one reason Herbert has a 25-24 record. His efficiency is good but not great.
     
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  7. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Btw, I'm not the one who insanely took this down the Herbert/Tua road yet again.
     
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  8. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    BS. Why doesn't Tua the Elite have those records then?
    Wins and losses are a team stat. You get that, right?
     
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  9. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I fully support Tua as our quarterback. I think he can be very good, I also think we can win with him. Herbert...is currently still the more talented player though. I can admit that. With that being said, I'm very happy with Tua, he may eventually pass Herbert up, in the end it doesn't matter because he doesn't play for us.
     
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  10. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Stop with all of this sensible BS. :burp:
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    First of all, it's not BS that efficiency stats correlate much better with winning than volume stats. I've posted the actual correlations for years demonstrating that, and if you don't believe me you'll find similar results on the web. And while wins/losses are team stats, individuals contribute to win%. It simply turns out that yards per attempt (for example) is far more predictive of W/L than total yards passing.

    Regarding Tua, who cares why he didn't lead in volume. That's not the metric you should be using. Him coming in #1 in passer rating and many other key efficiency stats was far more important.
     
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  12. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Dude, you are certainly not pulling me down your
    nonsensical road of BS stats. You look foolish enough as it is.
     
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  13. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    That you call efficiency stats like passer rating BS (just like before you called them bogus) demonstrates everything we need to see: you don't care about actual statistical evidence for what correlates best with win%. It makes all your reference to baseball stats irrelevant because that's precisely how they decide what matters most (e.g., WAR).
     
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  14. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    No. I don't. Sure. Looking good, brah.
     
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  15. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    We all know he is a garbage time volume king. Awesome. Good player. Not nearly as efficient as Tua is. At least, not in 2022.
     
  16. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    You are demonstrating a profound ignorance on this topic.
     
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  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha!!! Oooh. Good one. Ouch. Urrr..
     
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  18. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Chargers defense was lousy until they played us, and they were playing with several starters and their best players on defense out. Tua went 3-17 to start that game.

    No elite QB should ever start a game going 3-17, even against a good defense, and Tua did that against a bad defense.

    All they had to do was jam recievers and clog the middle of the field and Tua had zero answers for that. That is not an elite QB, that is a mid-tier limited QB with two great recievers and and a tailor made system that hides his limitations getting figured out.
     
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  19. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Brady-led NE was down 28-3 in the SB against the Falcons only to come back and win it with an even more impressive comeback than Tua's against the Ravens (personally I think that was the most impressive comeback in history, given that it was the SB). Oh, and Atlanta had the 27th ranked defense in 2016!! So according to this reasoning Brady isn't an elite QB.
     
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  20. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Sceeto is clueless as usual.
     
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  21. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Haha!! Yet another really solid, insight filled post from TheHighlyExausting.
     
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  22. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    That was in the super bowl and Brady came back to win it, not some regular season game. Did Brady go 3 for 17 or worse to start that game, and did he lose the game like tua did against the chargers? The answer is no, and no. That's a bad apples - oranges comparison.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2023
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  23. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Plenty of elite QBs have had crappy halves even crappy complete games, most have has many games like that in their career. One game doesn’t matter for determining if a QB is elite, what matters is how many good games they have vis a vis the crappy ones.
     
  24. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Herbert seemed very impressive as a rookie, and had one of the best rookie QB seasons of all time.

    Trouble is ‘great for a rookie QB’ is equal to ‘wasn’t too bad for a veteran QB’, and Herbert hasn’t improved his play since he was a rookie. Everyone expected Herbert to improve his play which is why they went gaga over his rookie performance because they projected him to step up to an even higher level.
     
  25. FinFaninBuffalo

    FinFaninBuffalo Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should watch some football. All QBs have bad stretches.

    Again with the "figured out" nonsense. Tua was very good against the Bills and pre-concussion against the Packers. This "theory" doesn't hold water.
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why are the trolls sooooo mad??

    Like seriously, with so many things to be happy about this coming season why are they so so mad.
     
  27. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Who cares if it was the SB? It actually makes it worse it was in the SB. And putting up points is FAR more important than completions.

    You want a regular season game where the QB didn't come back to win it? Fine. Let's take Herbert's 0-45 loss in 2020 against NE. You said the strength of the defense doesn't matter. So there, according to you Herbert isn't an elite QB! And starting 3-17 or worse is an arbitrary threshold. How about not being able to put ANY points on the scoreboard the entire game? That's a LOT worse.

    And if you insist on comp%, Aaron Rodgers started 2-12 in a 13-21 loss against Buffalo in 2014. That's a slightly worse comp% than 3-17 even if it's 5 fewer attempts. I'd love to see you argue starting 2-12 is worthy of an elite QB but 3-17 isn't.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2023
  28. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Children Children please go sit in a corner for some timeout.
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    while the same three posters are trolling this board and refuse to acknowlege anything the guy has accomplished.

    Meanwhile...Tua is getting Bigger...Faster...stronger..smarter...
     
  30. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    :oldtoker:
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    we'll see if their man enough to come back if Tua is back in the MVP voting..
     
  32. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    That would indeed be interesting! The only thing Tua needs to do, is to stay healthy (big if sadly) and we would be very happy with him as our franchise QB. Hopefully the new QB helmets for next season and his bulking up and learning to throw the ball away, will finally help him to stay healthy, finally.
     
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  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I would also add learning how to run when its right will help him and us..

    its what hes training for this offseason so it will be incredibly interesting to see the results of that specific training.
     
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  34. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Didn’t want to put another „and“ in there , but that would be huge too and he‘s got to learn how to slide to do so.
     
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  35. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I like seeing cbrad debate. He is all stats and math. This is what happened. This is how that compares to history. This is what tends to happen when that happens. It's pretty hard to argue against, because it's just facts, no opinion. I think that Herbert is going to bounce back and show that his rookie season was a harbinger of things to come. However, I cannot think of anyone that had significant starts and had their stats trend down year to year for their first three years and wind up elite. Or, great really. So, if I had to bet... :unsure:
     
  36. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    We'll see. I think he's all arm and no brain
     
  37. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Only reason I would prefer Herbert over Tua atm are the injury concerns with Tua. IF he gets that somehow under control, then I‘m more then fine with Tua when he keeps up what he did last year.
     
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  38. StaleTacos

    StaleTacos Well-Known Member

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    Well in fairness, smarter is relative. It's a low bar.
     
  39. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    so Tua is dumb is what you're saying..

    top 5 mvp candidate in his first year in the system led the league in passer rating

    your troll behavior set the bar at its lowest.
     
  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Lol. Herbert scored a 39 on his wonderlick and won the academic heisman at oregon with a 4.01 gpa and a degree in biology.

    Hardly a meathead...

    On the other hand Tua scored a 19 on his wonderlick, and his GPA is unkown, probably not too good since its not been talked about.
     
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