Tua is not the Problem

Give me a ****ing break.

The "smart" comments revolve around his football acumen and processing speeds on the field, not his knowledge of 19th Century British poetry.

 

That doesn't tell us anything. How many total QBs have scored below a 15 is a necessary number to know. Also need to know how many that scored that low didn't become HoFers.

You have to look at it like a probability, not a lotto ticket. There's going to be exceptions to everything, so pointing to a few exceptions isn't really the best argument.

 

Right, which is what the Wunderlic is supposed to test, correct? Have you ever taken the Wunderlic? You should, otherwise you're kinda talking it your *** when you're defending low scores on it.

 

Did you also analyze where each quarterback came from? For example, a quarterback that grew up in a poverty stricken area with substandard education and no parents around certainly shouldn't be judged the same as someone that went to prep school and lived in a cul de sac in a gated community.

This manufactured debate is silly as it doesn't account for real world realities.

 

I'm not defending ****. And yes i've messed around with it, it is not a football acumen test.

You are making **** up. Please tell me how the Wonderlic tests football knowledge and ability to read the field. Go ahead and show us.

 

No. Tua stated he had trouble learning the playbook in 2021. Potentially a factor in why he struggled early in his career.

 

Yes because Brian Flores was a heck of mentor to have leading you

 

Tua not understanding the playbook was his fault and no one elses. Tua admitted that, but you can't.

Hell, they had to dumb down the playbook for him at Alabama:
"[Alabama offensive coordinator Steve] Sarkisian tried to do pro stuff, and [Tagovailoa] couldn't handle it mentally because all he'd ever done was RPO stuff. So they went back to RPO."

https://theathletic.com/1752494/2020/04/17/mcginns-nfl-draft-series-scouts-on-top-quarterbacks/

 

Holy ——. It wouldn’t let me read the article, but if that is true? …damn.
………mic drop.

 

Why ???
Why are people still feeding the obvious trolls ?? They feed on the attention and will never go away.

 

All that tells me is that Tua may be a system QB or play optimally as an RPO QB.

And the bull**** you are trying to stir up is just a function of you deciding to punish a rookie for being honest which is likely something most rookies that struggle would never admit to.
Tua comes off as a humble, honest dude and it's a shame people like you take that honesty and use it further your agenda.

Very few players admit to struggling with the playbook yet it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that many likely do.

But go ahead Sir Stale Sherlock, keep proving how smart you are to everyone here.

 

All of this discussion of Tua being smart is stupid. "Smart" is a relative term. My mother, who was a high school drop out and never got great grades while in school in my opinion is one of the smartest people I know. She utterly amazes me at how much she truly knows and analyzes and comes to common sense conclusions.

My step-son is one of the most intelligent, educated people I know...reminds me a lot of Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang Theory (has a PhD in Experimental Physics from RPI) and yet, as much as I love him, is sometimes as dumb as a box of rocks...no common sense at all.

So hanging Tua's intelligence or "smarts" on a test score is as stupid as football bat

 

This was a direct response to Hitman's question of whether there have been any successful QBs with a Wonderlic of 15 or less.

 

Sure, but that doesn't mean anything, is my point. Understanding, hitman wasn't saying that ZERO QBs who scored low are ever successful. This is exactly what people continuously do with me. They take a zero sum game approach. All or nothing.

No, chances are, low scoring QBs are not going to fare well. It's probability. If the Wunderlic was useless they wouldn't use it.

 

Since you apparently have access to the full article, would you kindly disclose the person who said this quote?

 

They stopped using it since 2022. That should tell you something.

 

I think you'd also need to measure that against all the quarterbacks that scored high that WEREN'T successful. Also, how would success be defined?

 

They stopped using the Wonderlic last year.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/wonderlic-test-nfl-combine-draft/f6bs35tovcvufb3jqptuwsqg

 

it's just not true. maybe there's a grain of relevance for a position like QB where they have to know a ton of plays, but it's a test that is pretty biased against most minority athletes that come from either poor backgrounds or poor education systems. The intelligence that really matters is processing speed. The ability to take in information and reprocess it for making the right play on the field. The wonderlic does nothing to assess this. Just because it's timed, doesn't mean anything. and yes, I've taken it. It's a dumbed down version of an IQ test, which has very little applicability to NFL play and why they no longer rely on it. I literally work with some of the brightest people in the country and the ones that a head above the rest are the ones that can process all the information and redistill it into something meaningful and impactful. tests like the wonderlic are useless. They can be prepped for just like SAT or ACT. I've known friends that got near perfect scores on those test. processing ability - mediocre.

 

Again, I'm not here to debate the legitimacy of the test, or whether it is a good indicator of intelligence.

What I'm saying is, the test itself is pathetically simple. If you score low on it, it's concerning to me, because it's so stupidly easy.

Like if a college grad couldn't pass a simple 2nd grade math test, I'dhave some questions about their mental ability.

Yes, there could me extenuating factors that would give some clarity to a low score, but if there are no extenuating factors ever identified, then I have to assume that they simply don't know how to do second grade math.

 

You're all missing my point.

 

I agree. That's why throwing out 6 names is meaningless.

 

You're missing my point. I agree the test is stupidly easy.

Which is why, imo, it's so damning when guys do poorly on it.

 

Even if I did agree that it's damning - which I don't - Tua scored about average on the test, so there's really nothing damning about his score.

 

Unnamed scout. The article is all unnamed scouts. No one is going to put their name to these quotes.

It states as much in the beginning of the article:
This is the 36th year Bob McGinn has written an NFL Draft Series. Previously, it appeared in the Green Bay Press-Gazette (1985-’91), the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel (1992-’17) and BobMcGinnFootball.com (2018-’19). Through 2014, scouts often were quoted by name. The series reluctantly adopted an all-anonymous format in 2015 at the request of most scouts.

 

You all do know that Tua is responsible for the pandemic, right?

 

They have free online practice tests if anyone wants to see how easy the wunderlich test is.

 

Good ole Bob McGinn and his anonymous sources.

 

Well I must be as dumb as a box of rocks then. I googled practice test, took the first one (30 questions) and failed, timed out answering 5 out of 30 (I was on question 10 when it timed out).

Some of those questions made absolutely ZERO sense and have no application in real world scenarios…and this is based on 40+ years in the workforce.

Wonderlick? Yea, it can lick my balls, to quote Eric Cartman

 

So we have an unnamed scout who may or may not have any connection with 'Bama.

So nothing can be verified.

 

Oh brother. Even if the scout was named you'd have the same reaction. "That guy lies", or "He's got a reason to make that up."

Bob McGinn is super well respected and has been doing this for 40 years. He's not going to just make up scout quotes. He's got nothing to gain. And it's not remotely farfetched if you know what systems Sarkisian ran and was trying to do.

https://www.tidesports.com/football...honing-his-skills-to-run-a-pro-style-offense/

 

No, I wouldn't. That's why I asked if there was a name attached. Well respected or not, if a source can't be verified, how are people supposed to know if it's credible?

 

Because people aren't going to attach their names to these types of quotes. That's why the scouts all asked for anonymity.

 

I mean, he got a 13 the first time and improved to a 19.

Again, I'm not trying to argue on this to argue that Tua is bad. Sometimes the discussion for me, is just to have the discussion, and not in a trolling way.

 

If a scout won't attach their name, then they might as well keep their mouth shut.

 

Yeah, he did - back in 2018, when he likely has zero reason to take it seriously.

 

Just looked at the test myself. It's a timed test, and the types of math problems they have tend to require the same kind of reasoning. It's something you can learn to do a lot faster the more you practice. So really you need to compare test taking performance after people have had tonnes of practice taking the test. Otherwise you're not accounting for a learning effect. If Tua scored a lot higher the 2nd time around, then maybe that was just a learning effect.

Either way, Wonderlic scores really shouldn't be a topic of debate given the absurdly low correlation to QB performance.

 

I think that's silly. The whole article was "scouts on top QBs." If they want their anonymity to provide information, then you have to give it to them. It's not like these are baseless trade rumors. Additionally, I think anonymity actually makes for a better environment. If they were to give their names, you can then attach the scouts to teams, and then you really wouldn't be sure what is misinformation.

 

Correct. The most important score is the 1st one:

https://theathletic.com/1752494/2020/04/17/mcginns-nfl-draft-series-scouts-on-top-quarterbacks/

 

It shouldn't be. The intuition of NFL teams saying that is the opposite of what you'd want to do to get the best estimate of a person's ability. Whether it's aptitude testing or even simple detection or discrimination experiments, it's important to remove any learning effect prior to testing. Either that, or you average out results from multiple tests to establish a baseline (often done in medicine). What they should do is require everyone to take the test multiple times until the score asymptotes and use the asymptotic score.