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My Last Cameron Gripe (and then I'll move on)

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Jan 3, 2008.

  1. Dtronic

    Dtronic Season Tickets Sec. 150

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    I usally love Ck's posts, but I disagree with this one.

    I watched every game and saw so many coaching mistakes that there is no way I could list them all or even remember them.

    I still have to say I'm very glad Cam came, because I don't think we would have gone 1-15 without him and because of that we got Parcells.
     
  2. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well away from here
    Then how do you know there are so mnay if you can't remember? Huh?

    J/K sorry man couldn't resist.:lol:
     
  3. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    It's the end of the world for a lot of you. You guys just never felt it before, but this it what it is. IT'S A FIRING OF A HEADCOACH. Possibly the first ever recorded head coaching firing in franchise history. Did George Wilson get fired? I don't think he did.

    I know a lot of us, well all of us, are not used to it, but that's how it feels. Funny feeling right? Well, to accomplish this on this franchise you have to do be that bad of a coach, like let's say, bring the worst record in franchise history?

    Fact of the matter is, Cameron was the head coach and no one can tell his team how to run it. He's the head coach, period. He's going to be held accountable for the final result. It's his responsibility to move this team. It's his responsibility to show Huizenga that there is actually a plan for the future. What's his plan, seriously? We all know he loves the speed, but what else does he have planned? What was he trying to put together? He don't know, we don't know, and if he does know, his plan DOES NOT MATCH Parcells' and Ireland's plan with this team. It's the Bill and Ireland show now.

    The team is bad, REALLY BAD. I don't know if some of you don't want to accept it or maybe you guys can't beleive it, but look at our record. IT IS THAT BAD. Yes, it is. Point at the injuries, what ever, I'll counter that with our poor training camp and offseason workouts, possibly the softest in Miami history. Our players were not well conditioned except for the one player Vonnie Holliday said was working the toughest in the offseason: Ronnie Brown.

    There is absolutely nothing, NOTHING positive that came from this season. It was a waste. Our offseason and training camp conditioning was flat out attrocious [see our injuries, talk to every one that was in camp that said that this was the softest training camp in Miami history even our own FH Scouts on this site]. See our rookies, how out of place they were, see our game planning, our playbook, our low execution of plays. We pretty much threw our rookies out there, with no veteran leadership, and asked them to learn how to play the professional game on their own.

    Our free agency got us one player, who we signed for a large contract and barely made produced on our team.

    All of that stuff about Huizenga pressuring Cameron to start Beck is what it is, speculation. No real hard facts that is true, nothing.

    Yeah, I'm going to miss our clueless, lost, one and fifteen coach, who was about to kiss up to Bill Parcells just to keep his job after not wanting to comment or say his name the previous weeks.

    With Sparano, we get a coach that tells you straight up how it is and isn't afraid to speak. A tough minded coach that will drill our players back into form, develop our young players and give them a chance to have a great learning experience.

    Parcells has a plan. Cry if you think he lied to you, each move he has made has been as expected to those of us who beleived Cam was on the way out. Be patient, let the offseason play out. It's going to get better, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  4. sabanhater

    sabanhater New Member

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    Cam's head coaching record for Indiana and Miami combined is 20-67. That's my last comment on Cam.
     
  5. Waldop

    Waldop New Member

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    So going 1-15 had nothing to do with it, huh?? I seriously doubt it!! When people use the word scapegoat it means that someone gets the blamed when they shouldn't have!! While Cameron wasn't the only reason for the Dolphins fall, he sure had a lot to do with it. So let's not say he was blameless and that we should've allowed him another year. That's absolutely ridiculous!!
     
  6. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    It's not saying that he's blameless, it's saying that a whole lot of things went wrong this year, and that 16 games really isn't enough time to tell what we've got in Cameron as a rookie HC in the NFL. That he went 1-15 makes it a lot easier for Parcells to go through and put his agenda into action, but it's not entirely fair nor accurate to everything is Cameron's fault and that he's a complete failure as a HC and will never amount to anything.
     
  7. sabanhater

    sabanhater New Member

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    20-67.....


    20-67.....
     
  8. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Not that I'm fond of Cameron (I'm certainly not) but I don't think we can hold his college days against him. His record with the Dolphins does that better than anything ;) Nonetheless, he got a kind of flawed shot at something this year, and I'm dreading a repeat of the days we had Harrington under center.
     
  9. Brown42000

    Brown42000 Chillin

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    The guy was never cut out to be a coach, you can tell by the many mistakes he made as the season went on. He should get a coordinator job and stick with it.
     
  10. Finfang

    Finfang New Member

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    Come on man. You will be saying the same thing about the next guy. :glare:
     
  11. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    If a guy wins 4 games with what happened this year and the vets love him then he is the coach of the future

    but that didn't happen
     
  12. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    Took the words out of mouth...
     
  13. REV KEV

    REV KEV New Member

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    Me too... Straight up..., i like CK... But i disagree..., that's OK
     
  14. Dolphan7

    Dolphan7 Member

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    I am sorry but this is a business and business looks at the bottom line, not whether the guy was a nice guy or had injuries or it was someone elses fault. Bottom line is this: 1-15. That says it all right there. You can't escape it. While it would be intersting to see how Cam would have worked out in future years, I like what Parcells is doing. We just need to be patient with him for 2-3 years to get us back into the play-offs
     
  15. Waldop

    Waldop New Member

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    EXACTLY!! There are many coordinators out there that aren't suited to being head coach.
     
  16. I really dont see Cam being a scapegoat here. He is getting paid. Bill was hired to turn this team around and he is going to do it using tools he is familiar with. Why are people so offended by that? Cam will be employed again I dont think anyone has called him a failure. The same inditment you just reamed the Dolphins for saddling Cam down with people already in place is the exact thing your condeming Parcels for avoiding.
     
  17. big0mar

    big0mar New Member

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    i usually agree with what CK has to say...

    but not in this case.

    When did anyone say Cameron was a scapegoat? We had the talent of a 1-15 team, and tahts what our record was. I don't think anyone can definitively say whether Cam will be a great head coach or a bad one. But obviously Bill wanted to go with someone he knew- just as many executives do.

    Whats wrong with that?
     
  18. HysterikiLL

    HysterikiLL Member

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    Well endorsements are great if you're a mega-million dollar shoe company. But if you're a fan, just sit back and let the game take you on it's ride - no matter how freaking uncomfortable it can be at times (most times, in Miami).
     
  19. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Great post CK! One of the best on the subject. I agree it is pointless and there was alot and I MEAN ALOT that I liked about Cameron. Still as we discussed earlier its Parcells and though he is a great mind he's also a great enormous ego that would never share glory with others. That is why Cameron had to go. No9 other reason. Parcells let Cameron and Mueller do the hard part which is suffer through the tearing down process and now Parcells gets to step in and take credit for the rebuilding process. If we added nooone and just stayed heaqlthy next year we would go 4-12 or 5-11. Now he gets to take credit for that inevuitable improvement. This was part of the package that hiring Parcells meant. Wayne just threw away tens of millions in guaranteed contracts. Its great to be you Wayne, cvan you spare an extra million?
     
  20. MDFINFAN

    MDFINFAN New Member

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    What makes you think the team wouldn't have in 2-3 years under Cam..as bill said, it's about talent acquisition....Cam and Muller had started that process...10 rookies, and extra rookie FA's, the foundation was being laid, now a new coach gets to take the credit..this is BS.
     
  21. zodiak

    zodiak New Member

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    I have never seen so many people whine over a 1-15 headcoach being fired!

    As for CK's points the offensive improvement with the QB,RB & WR all in the game well that is Camerons expertise offense however he was hired to be HC and he failed at that job poor training camp management, bad game & clock management & players disliked him(some offensive guys liked him most all critics from the team where defensive players)
    Say what you will about how fair his treatment was the fact is he lost 15 NFL games and that never going to be exceptable.

    I am tired of how Parcells,Laundry, or Bill Walsh failed early in their NFL career's the fact is this is a different NFL Brian Billick gets fired and he has never lost 15 games in a single season and has a SB win.

    I get that Parcells wants "his guys" the fact that he hasnt called Tom Heckert Jr doesnt mean to me he isnt doing his job it tells me he has a plan if the plan works or not is a story to be told, but to me its refreshing to see a plan being implamented remember that under the CamRandy structure the tie breaking desicion maker was Brian Weidemier(sp?)
    a guy known more for his salar cap management then football talents.

    I dont know nor does anyone know if this will work however after all the agony of '07 and the disappointment of past coaches I just want to sit back waite and see and not be so fast to assume that this is or isnt a good thing.
     
  22. Raving

    Raving New Member

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    Your view CK was a bit myopic

    I thought Cam did some things very well. And some not so well - but more about this later.

    Bill Parcels wants his guys because this is HIS show. He does not want to be head coach or GM but he does want to be able to pull the strings when he wants.

    Parcels is a huge EGO. He is also a huge brain. He is smart enough to get guys to run this show that he KNOWS will do two things: 1. HIS guys are smart, effecient, capable and hungry. 2. They are known commodities to Bill so when he disagrees, or sees it differently, or has questions, or wants an opinion he has people in place that understands and they understand him.

    It can be likened to a Eric Clapton putting together a band. Sure there are better musicians available but maybe not necessarily guys that do it the way Clapton wants it done. And when your Clapton or Parcels you can do it any way you want.

    To Cam's credit the offense looked pretty good at times. He got Ronnie running like a beast. Cam had little to work with in terms of an air attack and yet we looked effecient at times. As much as we lost he kept the acrimony and negativity to a minimum as far the public could see.

    On the down side. Cam failed to properly evaluate how bad we might be. He would have been wise to declare this team as a rebuild from the get go. If we were more he's a genious and if not he can say I told you so. Aiming low and using politically correct terms ( this team has alot of deficits, so many changes over such a short period of time has cost this franchise, I am going to regain credibility with the players in terms of the leadership of this team, we may struggle at times, any time you revamp an entire system their is going to be a learning curve and so on...) would have changed the fan's experience of him, especially in the first half of the season. His love affair with Trent Green was strange. There were other suitable candidates out there that clearly would have done better for us. Also Joey Porter was not well thought out. He's a good player but that kind of spending looks reckless and desperate in retrospect.

    That said I do not like Brady Quinn so I agree with that decision. Not so much as an NFL QB because so far nobody knows, but his lack of humility spoke volumes for me. In that sense I like the Beck pick. Ginn will probably turn out to be a great player but the way Cam failed to name that this team was in need of rebuilding - and then his selection of a player that could only hope to really help the offense somewhere around mid-season was strange. If he called us a rebuild and then said he got a player that will need to incubate for our future he allows for a more coherent story.

    All that said - I think Cam can be top coach in this league. I would not be surprised if Parcels thinks the same. That said firing him was not about blaming him as much as it was about BP getting exactly the guys in place that he wants.

    Welcome to the BP show.

    I still remember Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Harry Carson bringing superbowls to NY. The Giants defense literally broke Joe Montanas back. Not that I wish that on anybody, but that single moment in time spoke VOLUMES about the kind of blue collar, smash mouth football that BP created in Gothem City.

    Right now we got the top creator in football on our side. With that comes a huge ego, and all the baggage that goes with it. BP loves that Huizenga is smart enough that he acknowledges that as an owner he does not know football so he stands clear.

    Mark my words JT aint going anywhere - and Brady better watch his arse!
     
  23. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This idea that Randy and Cam "did the tough work" or took the bullett for the franchise is so completely wrong it's ludicrous.

    A braintrust that believes they have a rebuilding process on their hands doesn't trade for a 37 year old concussed QB, sign a 30 year old linebacker or draft a kick returner #9 overall.

    The fact is that Cam/Randy only started "rebuilding" when we already 0-7 and all their off season acquisitions were failing miserably. Also, all they did was trade Chambers, big deal. That's your rebuilding?

    A new coach/braintrust will get to take the credit b/c they will actually be doing the work. they are the ones who will be drafting/signing players this off season and coaching them when they get better.
     
  24. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    That Jim Burt hit was one of the all time great hits ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Agree with this assessment. Yours is far more eloquent than mine
     
  25. Raving

    Raving New Member

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    Thank you for naming Jim Burt! and thanks for the compliment...
     
  26. Raychatfin

    Raychatfin New Member

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    Cam's big 3 on offence went down because of HIS decision's...
    Trent Green- concusion problems but still hired him.
    Ronnie Brown- Was having a probowl year until he went down because of Cam's stupid reverse calls, instead of just giving RB the dam ball.
    Chris Chambers- Was put in a no win situation because of Cam's decisions and play calling.
    So to say Cam never had a chance to focus on HIS team as coach because of his BIG 3 on offence went down or out is totall BS!!!
    What Cam should've demanded from WH is the ability to make decision's as a Head coach instead of accepting this crap as Offense/Head Coach title. Then maybe the team wouldve seen this guy had some balls and he's REALLY doing things his way. What player is going to play for you if they see things going bad and the HEAD COACH is reluctant to make decisions because he has no balls!
     
  27. RollieGotFingered

    RollieGotFingered New Member

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    "And why did we fire Cameron? One reason. He’s never coached with Parcells before. That’s it, period. "

    So? Cam Cameron isn't the first coach and certainly won't be the last to be fired because he wasn't compatible with the GM.

    I don't quite understand what you're getting at, unless you just hate the Parcells hire. Huizenga hired him to restructure the org, and that is what he's doing. Would you want to go into business with someone you A) didn't know and B) didn't share your business philosophies?
     
  28. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Banned

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    OT: but LeBetard is gonna get a lot of crap for what he just said on PTI
     
  29. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well dont just stand there......

    What did he say????
     
  30. str8outtalocash

    str8outtalocash Junior Member

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    "They got a samoan full back, a mormon quarterback, and a mexican american receiver."

    As to reasons why we are bad.
     
  31. ChambersWI

    ChambersWI Banned

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    str8outtalocash pretty much nailed it. His reasoning for us being bad is 2 of our players are minorities, and our QB is of a religion most people make fun of.

    I just finished a letter to ESPN about the comments. I am not Samoan,Mormon, or Mexican-American, but I thought the comments were very distasteful and wrong let alone Mauia,Beck, and Camarillo are not why we're 1-15
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  32. phinfan0202

    phinfan0202 New Member

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    Lebatard is a homo to the fullest.
     
  33. put-me-in-coach

    put-me-in-coach Season Ticket Holder

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    The thing that kills me is we have to start over again but this past year was basically "the new start" and looking back at it I'm not sure we were doing the right things. So, the sooner the better with changes in the right direction I guess. It was too early in the Cam/Mueller era to know if they were doing the right things but I know I have more faith in Parcells to know what to do with this team than anybody else.

    The draft was the one thing I could say Cam and Mueller did well. But other than that they seemed clueless about what this team was, and what they needed to succeed this year. They took a 6-10 team and made it worse. Alot worse. It could be said it is because of the injuries but the major injuries started about week 5 with the loss of Trent Green, but we were winless at that point. Then week 7 we lost Ronnie who was having a great season, but still we were still winless. So I can't say injuries was the only reason we did so bad.

    For me it started with training camp. We rested our stars to keep them healthy and fresh but could have done the opposite and made them unprepared and rusty for the start of the season. Parcells has the complete opposite philosophy when it comes to training camp he believes training camps should be hard to prepare the team for the season, I read about this here http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2565510. This is the sort of thing that got Cam fired I believe.

    Let me hypothesize for a second. The beginning of the season the team was unprepared and lost because of that, then injuries started to happen and then we started to lose because of that, next we started to change direction by giving younger players bigger roles to prepare for the future, trading Chambers and playing Beck while continuing to lose. Then to me it seemed like he changed his mind and was all about not ending the season winless so he put Cleo back in. On top of that Cam was making rookie coaching mistakes and managed the games badly making it harder for us to win. In the end we said at least he kept the team together. Then the stories of Cam fighting with players and players being unhappy come out. So I'm not so sure he kept them together. I'm not saying this is what happened but it is possible, and if it is, it coulld be said that Cam's the reason we were sooo bad. It could be his fault.

    This season I kept reminding myself of a cliche "good teams find a way to win and bad teams find a way to lose." It was very appropriate to me. The one win seemed like a series of amazing luck. To me we should of lost that game bigtime.

    When I hear Parcells and Ireland talk about having a philosophy at first it seemed silly but the more I think about it, it seems true. Cam came in happy to let Capers do what he wanted and focus on offense. And on offense he seemed to change his mind at times during the season. Seems to me that he didn't have a strong vision or philosophy for the entire team. Parcells seems to know what he wants for the ENTIRE TEAM.

    As far as bringing in only coaches he's worked with is tricky. Instead of getting the best coaches available he is bringing in his coaches. I am making myself think that he is bringing together caoches that work well together. Like a team that doesn't have a roster full of stars but players that work really well together. Mesh well ya know. Dream teams sometimes don't work well, but teams that know their roles can be great. Maybe thats whats going on. Not sure.

    that is all.
     
  34. thedayafter

    thedayafter New Member

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    I have never read such excuse laden drivel as this post... there is so much speculation and assumption it's laughable.... get over it... Cam failed as the HEAD COACH... plain and simple...

    I have no agenda here... unlike some... but it was very clear from the VERY beginning this was a BOTCH job just waiting to snowball... well it did... the results are in... and the decision has been made to move on....

    Next!
     
  35. Finole

    Finole Season Ticket Holder

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    I disagree. Yeremiah Bell was a huge loss. He did so many different things, from blitzing to coverage to stopping the run... you don't just replace a guy like that. It would be like the Colts trying to replace Bob Sanders. Whether or not you believe Bell is as good as Sanders, we basically ask him to do the same things.

    We also lost Vonnie Holliday for a number a weeks which really hurt.

    Plus, having Zach Thomas on the field could have amounted to at least two more wins. The Oakland game in particular comes to mind.

    I agree that Cameron did an admirable job with the offense. But he also went for it on 4th down way too often. We would have had a chance to win at least 3 more games if he had elected to kick a field goal instead.

    On the other, maybe Cameron would have learned from those mistakes. Guess we'll never know.

    You're absolutely right.

    But doesn't every other HC in the NFL have to oversee ALL THREE facets of the game? For example, do you think Ken Whisenhunt, Mike Tomlin, or Lane Kiffin only focused on one aspect of their respective teams?

    Excellent point. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. I saw you post this same idea the other day and I thought, "Yeah, if Jason Allen, Ted Ginn, and John Beck have the potential to get better, then doesn't Cam Cameron also have that same potential as a coach?"

    But the sad reality is that coaches are held to a different standard. Maybe because they aren't drafted. I don't know. Whatever the reason, Cameron clearly isn't getting the leeway his rookie QB is getting.

    You mean like how Cameron lied to Culpepper by telling him he'd have an oppurtunity to compete for the starting QB job?

    Look, you really have no idea what went on behind closed doors. You're talking about rumors as if they're fact. I'm sure Mueller knew what was coming. And if he didn't, he's not very bright.

    Plus you don't know WHEN Parcells decided to fire Mueller. It's very possible he was telling the truth when he said he had no preconceived notions. I suspect he made up his mind about a lot of things during the game against Cincy.

    This is a legitmate criticism of Parcells. But if his guys get the job done then I don't really have a problem with it.

    And his guys have a history of getting the job done.

    Actually, I prefer Sparano to Garrett. He has 22 years of coaching experience to Garrett's 3 years.

    For me, there are just as many reasons to fire Cameron as there are to keep him.

    He really seemed to turn our offense around. He did the best he could having lost all the players he did to injury. But he also made his fair share of mistakes. Would he have learned from them? I don't know. I'd like to think so.

    But I won't miss his poor game day decisions. (Kick the damn field goal. Manage the clock. It's the simple things you can't lose track of.)

    I won't miss his poor personnel decisions. (Why was Jesse Chatman splitting carries with Ronnie Brown at the beginning of the season? Why did it take so long to play Lorenzo Booker?)

    I won't miss his less-than-winning way with the media. (Regarding Culpepper: "I can't comment on that right now." Regarding the Traylor situation: "I'm not going to get into that." Regarding Parcells: "I'm not going to comment on that.")

    He answered questions like a politician, never really giving an answer. And I was never a fan of how he referred to himself in the third person.

    And I won't miss his corny motivational tactics. Remember the "old rope trick..."

    http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_football_dolphins/2007/10/old-rope-trick.html

    Now we get a new guy to make all new mistakes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  36. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    This echoes of the Great Daunte Debate of 2007.
     
  37. n9necount

    n9necount New Member

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    Whatever. I'm not going to sit here and feel bad for Randy and Cam for ANY reason. We wanted someone to rebuild this franchise from scratch and now we have just that one person who's qualified to do it and has done it on numerous occasions. If Bill decides to axe more front office employees, whatever. Wayne finally did the best thing for this franchise and that was to put a football mind in charge of the football side of this organization.

    And who can honestly blame Bill for wanting his guys? It's not like hes hiring someone to flip burgers here; personality clashes are the last things he wants. Let Bill get his guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2008
  38. ac_lanham

    ac_lanham Junior Member

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    Good riddance to Cameron. I don't know if I can stomach any more of his nonchalant demeanor, piss poor clock management, bone-headed decision making, and just flat out crappiness as a head coach. For every Chuck Noll, Tom Landry, and Jimmy Johnson, you have your Dave Wannstedts, your Norv Turners, and now, your Cam Camerons. Guys who just aren't cut out for being an NFL head coach.
     
  39. dolphindebby

    dolphindebby Season Ticket Holder Luxury Box

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    You nailed it CK. I still don't know how I feel about bp etc. I agree he lied about no preconceived ideas. I wonder if he talked to anyone before he fired them. It's pretty scary, imo, not knowing what the fate of the Dolphins is in his hands. I guess we'll all have to wait and see, as usual.
     
  40. Finfang

    Finfang New Member

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    While the rest of Dolphin world is head over heels about the turn of events I just feel like something is very wrong here. It just doesn't feel right.

    I will support them as always in every way I just have a bad feeling I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe it is just all the sophomoric comments made about about the team on behalf of the so-called Dolphin faithful ( I've seen the same people bring out the executioner so many times) or maybe it is just a sense of deja vu for putting faith into another savior.

    I hope I am wrong of course.



    BTW. Hello Debby :hi5:
     

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