Parcells went after Calvin Pace, even though we had Porter and JT. Suggs is very young and is a defensive playmaker. A Suggs/Porter combination with lets say Mauluga at MLB would be awesome. I am all for getting chris gamble and suggs in free agency and filling the rest of our needs with draft picks.
Without going into any great detail...... I never want a former Ravens linebacker or strong safety. The majority of the NFL plays gap control type defenses. The Ravens linebackers free flow. It's a totally different concept that allows linebackers to shine.
doesnt change the fact hes a good player......regardless of scheme....the dude can rush a passer and can tackle..... ill take him!
Everyone said the same thing about signing Joey Porter. Everyone said Steelers LBs are only effective because of the scheme. Last year those people looked really smart. This year those people look like fools.
I never said that about Joey Porter. What I said about Joey Porter was that Jason Taylor filled his role. I was actually one of the lone people in existence defending Joey Porter. They signed him for one thing (weakside pass rusher) and used him for another (covering a TE). If anything, you have actually added to the reason why we shouldn't be signing a player just to sign him. If you don't have a use for him, you don't sign him. Last year we didn't have a use for Joey Porter. This year we do. We have a use for him because Jason Taylor is gone.
Okay......What to do with Joey Porter's 20 million dollar contract then? If you didn't notice all the shifting of the TE in our first couple of games let me clear that up for you. They were moving the TE to Joey Porter's side of the field. They were moving the TE to RUN AT Joey Porter. All the evidence in the world was on tape from last year that he is weak against the run on the TE side. You can go back and watch the games from earlier this year. Some of the frantic outbursts from Porter after a two yard gain when they run at him were because he knows the game and he knows what they were trying to do. Offensive coordinators were actually saying - "You are weak against the run. We are taking it to you punk." Many times we countered with a shift of our own. We had Porter and Matt Roth flopping as the TE switched sides.
I'd be all for Terrell Suggs as an OLB and than a draft that looked like.. 1-Rey Maualuga-ILB-USC 2A- Mike Mickens-Cornerback-Cincinnati 2B: Evander Hood-Defensive Tackle-Missouri 3: Juaquin Iglesias-WR-Oklahoma 4: Courtney Greene-Safety-Rutgers 5: Ramses Barden -Wide Receiver-Cal Poly 7A: Lydon Murtha-Offensive Tackle-Wisconsin 7B: Edwin Williams-Center-Maryland 7C: Anthony Hill-Tight End-NC State
thanks bro for clearing that up......my knowledge of PLAYING linebacker in highschool college and semi pro didnt teach me enough.....thanks for that explaination
Suggs and Hagan both went to my alma mater (ASU). One turned out really good, and the other turned into crap.
for the record i want suggs cause he is IMO a big upgrade over what we have now (roth) and is a good 3-4 de/olb hybrid......and hes an athlete....i like those....big strong athletes on your defense will take ya' places.....
I am all for T sizzle coming to Miami. The Raven's defensive scheme isnt what makes him a good player... he was good at Hamilton High, ASU (tied NCAA single season sack record), and now Baltimore. Please come to Miami Mr. Suggs.
I'd think Suggs would end up in Arizona before he came here. You like Maualuga an awful lot brother. I'm not in the same boat as you on this one. Maualuga has holes in his game and I'm not a fan of him. Give me Clint Sintim instead. Evander Hood at 2B? That would be a steal but I'd be surprised if he's there because I expect his stock to go up. I thought he was the only one who played well in the Texas-Missouri game from Missouri. Greene of Rutgers has struggled this year but I'll take him in the fourth. I'd be surprised to see Barden in the fifth. He's a third rounder right now. Mickens or Alphonso Smith would be good picks at 2A. Then we go to cap hell ala Jets lol.
and a better defense.....gotta spend money to get players and unlike the jets.....those guys arent either A) old or 2) over-rated
Lol, very true. Kris Jenkins was a great pickup for them but I don't know what the hell they were thinking giving Damien Woody $25 million. He has the slowest feet.
I never count on anyone to be a FA until all the F-tags have been applied and the period officially begins. Otherwise its pretty much a waste of time as 3/4ths of the people you talk about wont go anywhere. That said, I disagree Suggs would not be a good pickup because of the Ravens scheme. Hes a good player, has been a good player. I could see him as a replacement for Porter (Joeys no spring chicken but playing well) and starting opposite him for now. Wonder how Roth might translate into an ILB? But lets see him actually reach the market.
I couldn't care if you played for Vince Lombardi. Signing players just to sign a player is just plain dumb. Tell me who you are benching and why you are benching them. Otherwise I suggest that every dollar that would be spent on the defense should be in the secondary. Terrel Suggs is a luxury for this defense like no other..........better yet let me use this analogy: Staying with the personel in our secondary is like living in a 1960 model year 12 x 60 mobile home. Meanwhile, you suggest we purchase a Bentley for transportation. I ask why you would even want to suggest living like that.......
did you watch last game? did you see our run defense?! our safety yerimiah bell is leading our team in tackles.....that shouldnt happen with good linebackers.....how can you say we dont need an upgrade at lb?! oh pass rush........joey porter? CHECK.....anyone else.....HELLO?? is this thing on?!?! right......you are sorely mistaken if you think our defense is all set once we get the secondary figured out.....
Wow! Where to start? I know, let's start at the beginning...... So there you have "the beginning" of the three man line as told by Bill Arnsparger himself. So at this point I ask you, "Who is the Bob Matheson of the 2008 Miami Dolphins?" Who is the fourth rusher? My eyes and logic tell me that this player is none other than Joey Porter. Likewise, I would like to ask you "Who is the Bob Matheson of the Baltimore Ravens? Who is their fourth rusher?" My eyes and the logic expelled by the Terrell Suggs fighting for franchise pay as a defensive end rather than that a weakside linebacker tell me that this player is none other than Terrell Suggs. You like Terrell Suggs. I like Terrell Suggs. The debate is not about whether Terrell Suggs is a good player. It's about how you will utilize his abilities that you have cited. I think I have made it pretty clear that Joey Porter is presently doing the job that you like seeing Terrell Suggs perform. So the question is now............ Do you want to pay Terrell Suggs 9 million dollars per year to do some other job? OR............ Do you want to see Joey Porter playing the TE side as he did last year? In either event I think you are asking for the same trouble that Cameron/Mueller invited in 2007. Dumb reporters will ask about the "poor performance" of Joey Porter. Joey Porter will say he is not being utilized in the same role he had performed for the decade prior. Fans who don't know the game will say the coach is stupid citing Porter's comments in this regard. Porter will despise the coach for placing him in a position to defend his reputation. Yeah, that kind of trouble. You want to see that again?
allright im seeing your point more and more now (not sarcasm) but porter is older i think.....he would be a good replacment.....but i see your point on getting better where we need it NOW.....
The point about the STRONG safety was not to be disregarded........ So you played the game right? You played linebacker at high school, college, and semi-pro all before the ripe old age of 22. Well here is what you didn't learn about the strong safety position that Yermiah Bell is currently occupying. He is not a FREE SAFETY. His role was instituted by the need for a second level player while the passing game increased. Defense did not want to back defenders off the ball. Offense made them back defenders off the ball through the passing game. Everyone still accounts for someone. The game hasn't changed in 100 years. If you can't stop the run, offense will run. If you can stop the run, offense will pass. Bill Arnsparger: The key description that I want you to focus upon is that of the "purpose of this type of support". We want the strong safety to enable us the "same support" as is on the other side of the ball. The question is who is on the other side of the ball (in the 3 man line) performing a similar support role? The short answer is a linebacker on the weakside....... Once again, you have cited Terrell Suggs (a linebacker) as the answer to our rush defense woes. In the same breath you cited the strong safety being our leading tackler as a major problem within the defense. I now have the following questions... Would it make you feel better if Terrell Suggs was playing Strong Safety? If so, I have some passing game questions I'd like to ask of you. or........ Do you have some mysterious formula to force the offense to always run to the weakside where Terrell Suggs will be? If you really want answers to our rush defense woes, I suggest you look elsewhere. I know where I would start looking but this thread isn't about that topic........
Dude, we were typing at the same time. Rereading I should let up on some of the stuff that sounds so condescending. I apologize for that. There is a blueprint for our rush game woes. I have got that on my mind and you generated all the thought last night. I'll make a post about it some time in the future. I have to get some sleep now. I've been working all night.
for the record.....i played highschool, 2 yrs of college (hurt my knee, lost my scholarship) now play semi pro.......thats the age correlation
Again, I apologize for the remarks. It was childish to say the least. We hit on some interesting notes while in this discussion. This is why I wanted to bring it back up. First let me say that the following take on the SS position is all speculation. Although I coach, I have never coached anything close to this level of football. It's all pure speculation based upon my experience coaching and some NFL history. The Strong Safety position and Yeremiah Bell: This position has always been somewhat of a deviation from common rules when taking statistics. By definition of the role he will have a chance to be in on a maximum number of football plays. He's in an advantageous position to defense run or pass by design. Much of the time (for the fan) it has led to a false sense of security provided by that player. By that I mean, "if we lose him, we are toast." I do not think it's so. I also think that while Bell has shown he is adequately filling the role, this by no means he is the best player for the role going into the future. His statistics simply means that he is in the best position on the field to make plays and he is making a good number of them. The questions then become is he making the run stops at -3 yards and does he occupy a consistently large amount of space while occupying his zone versus the pass. The run stops will be easy to gauge if you simply watch the player. His pass defense is much more difficult to determine. On any given play he could be asked to occupy any number of the zones to his side of the field. Largely the position is asked to fill one of two zones though. With that in mind, I suggest that we really do not know how well Yeremiah Bell is performing until we watch him on every play. No person except a coach or interested analyst is engaging in such an endeavor. From my observation, this team plays alot of three deep and two deep. As you probably already know the three deep places the SS in the strong side flat much of the time. This conjures up memories of being toasted by some ill timed screens or wheel routes run by backs from the opposition. The question becomes, "Where was Yeremiah Bell?" Yet another question that will arise is this is just from my memory and I do not know if the screen or wheel was run to the strong side. I really had no interest in it prior to our discussion. As I have said before - "When I watch the Dolphins, I'm just a fan with a beer in his hand." Having said all that (which probably has led you to more questions than answers) I want to bring up strong safety Roy Williams. Fans from across the league have all jumped aboard the "Roy Williams can't cover" bandwagon. Upon consideration of this statement, my question was always "What/who was Roy Williams asked to cover?" The critism always came from fans seeing Roy running downfield behind a seemingly uncovered TE. But if Roy was asked to play the flat or a hook zone, that TE running a seam or a crossing pattern was not his to be covering. Roy simply sniffed out the play and gave chase. I do not think this has been the real measure of Roy Williams play though. The real measure has come when Roy Williams was out of the game. While fans have looked down and Texas and become enamoured with the entire offensive saga in Dallas what has went unoticed is their newfound inability to stop the run. I dare say that the Dolphins defense has done just as amirable a job. I can say that for sure when contemplating the rushing game. At the present time Dallas ranks 13th versus the rush and Miami ranks 12th. The Cowboys defensive struggles have actually knocked them out of the top ten in total defense. Nobody has said a word about the missing Roy Williams. I wonder when they will notice? Was the rushing totals versus the Rams not enough to witness? I told you that I thought I saw a blueprint for our rushing woes in the past. That blueprint turns up in New England. Do you remember the Lawyer Milloy strong safety saga? He was the Patriot's leading tackler in 2001 with 77 solo tackles. He was no slouch in the 2002 season with 65 solo tackles. Upon letting him walk to the Bills in 2003 the overwhelming opinion was that Bellichek's ego was to big for his britches. He was crazy to let Milloy walk. At the same time I was watching the free agent carousel go 'round in the offeseason. If memory does not fail me Rodney Harrison actually came to Miami for a visit. We had a chump name Arturo Freeman occupying the SS position prior to that offseason. We signed Sammy Knight and well, you know where Harrison went. That year Randy Mcmichael beat Rodney Harrison like a drum. Those two had epic battles for two consecutive years then all of a sudden it was done. Back to the point........ For years I have watched New England (seemingly) not care about the secondary. For years I have watched them get away with it. I mean they actually went to the SuperBowl with a WR playing the nickel. WTF? Similarly I went to Dallas in 2003 and I saw Jay Fiedler torch the Dallas secondary by getting behind them. Chris Chambers actually said after the game, "We saw something on film that made us confident that we could get behind them." The issue in Dallas was that their secondary sucked. Everyone prior to that Thanksgiving game had been throwing underneath routes. They were actually playing to Dallas' strength. So our Jay Fiedler (yes, that Jay Fiedler) torches them. Chris Chambers catches 5 for 96 and 3 touchdowns. Dallas was 8-3 coming into this game and then proceeded to drop 2 of the next 4 games. I went to Carolina on January 3rd and watched them get eliminated from the playoffs. What happened there? Musin Muhammed has 4 catches for 103 yards and Steve Smith has 5 catches for 135 yards. Now here is the point of all that Dallas history. What changed in the secondary the following year? (virtually) NOTHING! The starters in 2003 were Newman, Woodson, Mario Edwards, Roy Williams, Pete Hunter and Derek Ross. The starters in 2004 were just as bad. The starters in 2005 were just as bad. Heck, Parcells even called up a crippled Aaron Glenn to compete for a starting gig. What does all this tell me? I couple the two (Patriots/Cowboys) together and all that I come up with is that they view the secondary as interchangable parts. So what do they (Parcells,Bellichek) value? Well I look no further on our team than Jason Ferguson. But I believe it is in New England the full blueprint is found. It seems Bellichek can handle any amount of change on defense with three positions as the exception. It's very simple if you just follow the money with these two. In New England the money (and the first round draft picks) is found on the line with Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, and Richard Seymour. A similar review of the Parcels Cowboys shows a first round pick in 2007 of DE Anthony Spencer, a first round pick in 2005 of Demarcus Ware, a second round pick in the same year of Marcus Spears, and a first round pick in Bobby Carpenter. I guess he never saw a convenient Vince Wilfork available in his time in Dallas. Which is probably why he wrapped up this position (NT) as one of his first moves in Miami. In my opinion, defense is all about the front seven with a HEAVY emphasis on the defensive line these two. We will need three two gap players up front before we look anywhere else.
From what i've noticed we play mainly cover 4 and cover 3. In those kind of defenses you need guys that can keep the play in front of them, break on the ball from out of a backpeddle/sidestep, and most importantly, make open field tackles. Those coverages are going to give up alot of the hitchs and short ins and outs just by design. Without having corners that can make those tackles, those 7 yard gains turn into 20 yarders. The facts are: Goodman has bad ball skills and is a terrible tackler. He is best suited to a dime man coverage defender. Hill is just medicore to below average in all aspects and is suited to be a backup cover 2 saftey. Bell is actually the most suited to play in a cover 3 scheme but he is playing at just an acceptable level right now for a starter. Allen is actually the most talented player in our secondary, but he still lacks the ball skills you would like to see in your LCB. He would be better suited to a cover 2 press man scheme like what bates ran. All in all, yes the front 7 is important, but if you can't bring down big recievers in the secondary, teams are going to use the short outside passing game to control the clock if they can't run the ball.
Very astute observation about our utilization of Cover 4 Yarg! I must confess that I do not much pay attention to the number of times we are in the coverage. From my vantage point (the tv screen) I can never tell the difference between quarters and cover 4. I also must confess that I have always relugated cover 4 as a useless coverage. IMO, it's not even a coverage. It is "You can have just about everything except the 18+ yarder since I'm going to start running backwards at the snap with the goal of never allowing you to get beyond my coverage." It might as well be called a prevent defense. My response on offense would always be "okey dokey, I'll take every other route on the passing tree." It looks like the opposition has said the same thing. I despise cover 4 and I choose to believe that it's a choice that the pros must be forced to make due to a talent disparity. But there could not possibly be as much of a talent disparity garnering the number of times it's utilized. It sucks. Thankfully in our contest versus the Bills, it appears as though we cut down on the use of "Don't let them behind you." I am a firm believer in "one over the top" and if that doesn't work "two over the top". I like cover three as a blitz coverage. In every case it allows the men to play football. Cover 4 is like playing football in fear.
Wow. Never thought I would witness a conversation between YARG and ZOD..... Love your take on the Cover 4 Zod. Seems like the ONLY time it is any good is within the final 2:00 and you are up by more than 8. Otherwise you are just giving away free plays.
