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Would you drop the Chad's for...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by resnor, Nov 16, 2008.

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  1. JCowScot

    JCowScot So funky the dead dance

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    I think the RB core is a push- theirs is def. faster, though. Their line is also better, IMO. Maybe not at LT, but overall, and certainly depth-wise. And you mean to tell me that White, Jenkins and Douglas isn't light-years better(right now) than Ginn, Camarillo and Bess?? C'mon now...:shifty:

    I think the team/coaches has a slight edge on who-is-making-who better, but there is no doubt that Ryan is doing a heckuva job. I just don't see him doing as well here, especially if he had been here since the beginning of TC.

    Well, at least we are in agreement here, as I'd sell yours just as quickly.:lol::wink2: Just not for Ryan. In fact, the only BC player I've ever liked was Flutie...maybe that's the reason I can't see Ryan doing well in a 'Fins uni. :pointlol:
     
  2. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I wonder if the people saying yes, would have said yes, if the question was posed last year except Derek Anderson's name replaced Ryan's?

    Point is, we have only nine games more info on Ryan than we do Henne. Add to that, what Penny has brought to the table, it would be foolish to take that trade.
     
  3. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Jenkins had a season high of 532 yards in 4 years. In comes Matt Ryan and - surprise - he's on pace to finish for about 800 yards. I don't, by the way, happen to think that he's a better receiver than Camarillo necessarily. White certainly is an argument but since I take Brown over Turner any day, I think we're having a push here. I also don't think the line is exactly better ... it is overachieving like all hell. Bottom line for me is that Matt Ryan has revived Atlanta about as much as Penny has revived us.

    As an aside, I dunno if "he wouldn't be that effective for us is" is indeed that compelling an argument to begin with. Even if he wasn't - he has already shown that he will be a good - possibly great - QB in this league and it's not as if we're going to keep playing with the current talent for the next thirteen years. I don't think there's a single FO in this league (now that Millen is gone in Detroit) that would take the QB they think could become a good one over the QB they know will be become a good one.
     
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  4. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Bad comparison. Ryan's playing in a different league than Anderson altogether.
     
  5. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Wow. I didn't expect this thread to go this long. LOL.

    Anywho, this is how I look at it, and this is what I said to my friend: "Would you have traded Brees for Ryan, right now, based on his first two years in the league?" You'd have to say yes, cause Brees was not good his first two years. Now, Brees is arguably top three in the league. Is there any guarantee that a good first year equals a good career?

    As to Cassel, I was listening to the stupid Patriots radio commentators the other day, and they were actually suggesting that Miami could be looking at Cassel for next year. They're out of their minds.
     
  6. JCowScot

    JCowScot So funky the dead dance

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    Yeah, that's b/c Ryan's actually a QB, not a glorified RB.:knucks: And yes, I agree that their line is overachieving, but most good lines do. Brown over Turner- yes, but not by much. They have a better FB, and Norwood v. Williams is a push as well. I still rate their WR's over ours tho, all things being said.

    Meh, you may be right, but we still don't know that Ryan will become a good qb. After 10 games, all signs point to 'yes', but we'll have to see how he does the rest of this year and next year. Gradkowski had a nice year in Tampa not too long ago, and where is he now?? Not saying that would happen to Ryan, but it is a possibility, however slight.

    Also, I know it wasn't an 'effective' arguement per 'se, but it wasn't meant to be so; just one reason as to why I wouldn't want him. It may not be a good one, but it's my reason, and it's better than "I don't like him/BC guys.":lol:
     
  7. mor911

    mor911 pooping

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    No way. There's no way to see Ryan is a product of that system or if he's compatible here. We got something going, I'd stick with it.
     
  8. Witheringplant

    Witheringplant Junior Member

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    Why don't we just go ahead and change the title of this thread to "The Official Homer Thread".
     
  9. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I will admit that if I were a Falcons fan I would definitely be on the Matt Ryan side of the debate.

    But is it really that far of a stretch to say that with having our team in the playoff hunt we would rather have a proven vet who has shown a real knack for not turning the ball over and leading beautiful game winning drives in the 4th quarter?

    Ryan is playing phenomenal right now, rookie or not, but I'd take Pennington in the playoffs THIS year in a heartbeat.

    Henne is what makes this a tough debate. The little we have seen of him he looks good.

    I guess both teams should be very happy to have solid options at the QB position.
     
  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    No.

    Last Year: Anderson had 3700yds, 29 TDs (+ 3 more on the ground), pretty similar numbers. The point is, Anderson ended up ******** the bed this year, after a phenomenal break-out year. Again, we only know 9 more games worth of info on him than we do on Henne.
     
  11. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think the question is as easy as it looks if you really think about it. Ryan is an excellent rookie QB, no doubt and any team would want him. You can however look at the question in 2 ways.

    Who is better for the Fins now?
    Well Pennington has pumped the team up and lead the team with undeniable resiliency, poise, execution and all his intangibles. He is the biggest reason the Dolphins are where they are. He also has a better QB rating. Could Ryan have taken us where we are now? Very hard to say. But I'm willing to bet that with the young, inexperience team with many many holes talent wise coming from 1-15, I doubt the Fins could have had the results with Ryan instead of Pennington.

    Who is better for the Fins future?
    That depends mainly on how you view Henne. It's probably too soon to say but as Fin fans we have seen him shine in limited action in Miami and at Michigan. We have also heard from the coaches and the GM heaping praise on him. Those things, non-fin fans don't hear or see. So we believe. Heck, the team is 6-4 so we believe in this coaching staff. With Pennington's tutoring it's possible Henne could eventually be better than Ryan. It's all conjecture but the results 3-4 years from now will speak for themselves.
     
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  12. FiN.in.RI

    FiN.in.RI Paul pierced through..

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    Matt Ryan was a pretty damn good QB out of BC.. Ryan has postive relevant history and high draft status to back up his play (which was good right out of the gate, on a team somewhat destined to fail) this season.

    Derek Anderson came out of nowhere and had one good season..

    Comparing the two situations is apples and oranges. Saying you would want Derek Anderson after one good year in the pro's screams reactionary.
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    His college years aren't that relevant to the question at hand.

    Matt Ryan came out of college and had nine good games...

    I agree it is reactionary, and that is my point. Giving up an equally hot prospect (Henne) and a winning proven veteran, for Ryan is equally reactionary. (Yes, I know it was a hypothetical)
     
  14. BrazForPhins

    BrazForPhins From south

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    I'd say NO because the fact of Matt Ryan succeeding in Atlanta doesn't mean he'd translate that well to Miami.

    There's a reason Ireland and Parcells didn't draft him. I'd say the odds of Matt Ryan succeeding on this team are pretty much the same of Henne's...a question mark.

    Considering that, Pennington is a plus factor, so, no.
     
  15. Regan21286

    Regan21286 MCAT's, EMT's, AMCAS, ugh

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    Can't really make a choice seeing how Henne hasn't really been out there (though I personally wasn't in favor of his drafting and don't really think he'd be anything more than an old Drew Bledsoe with an arm). I like Ryan's potential and instant success but I also like Pennington's work up to now. But right now we have no idea what Henne will do unless we have a crystal ball.
     
  16. Witheringplant

    Witheringplant Junior Member

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    It is a lot more clear cut than you make it seem. Deciding for this year's success arguably goes in Pennington's favor, but this would be a decision for the future. Even if we go the the playoffs this year, we aren't looking at a super bowl run. This team is being built to be elite in a couple years. Those are the years you want a franchise QB.

    The fact of the matter is, we don't know if Henne will be a franchise qb. You can talk about praise from the coaches all you want. You can talk about pre-season performance all you want. Until Henne gets on that field in a big game, we just don't know. Ryan, on the other hand, has gone out and proven himself. He has done as much for the Falcons as Pennington has done for us.

    If you get the chance to trade a "maybe" franchise qb and a good vet for a proven franchise qb, you do it. No questions. 100% of the time. Any other response is just homer talk.
     
  17. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    I don't think Thomas Dimitroff would make the trade. But then, I don't think Jeff Ireland would either.

    I think both like where they are.
     
  18. aesop

    aesop Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely yes.

    Henne could turn out to be just as good as Matt Ryan, but I doubt he'll be better. Matt Ryan has already shown he can make all the throws and is playing with an average at best offense. Turner has taken a lot of pressure off of him, but he has still been making all the throws like a seasoned veteran since week 1.
     
  19. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    as of right now no
     
  20. Crappy Tipper

    Crappy Tipper AKA Hero13

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    Right now I don't want to even entertain the what if's - Pennington has us on the verge of making the playoffs for the first time in like 8 years so he IS my QB that I want right now.
     
  21. FiN.in.RI

    FiN.in.RI Paul pierced through..

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    But you were comparing ANderson to Ryan. I've already made my point and this will be last i say on it. Wanting Anderson after one good year mired in a career of mediocrity would be deemed reactionary. Wanting a guy like Ryan who had a good college career and was drafted high and is now backing it up by playing well in the NFL is not exactly reactionary.
     
  22. keypusher

    keypusher Well-Known Member

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    Interesting thread. I haven't seen even one Falcons game this year, so I don't have much to say, beyond just "it's too early." You have one known quantity (Pennington), one semi-known quantity (Ryan) and one unknown quantity (Henne). If Ryan turns out to be the next great NFL QB and Henne turns out to be just OK, then yeah, of course you would make that trade. But how confident are you that that is what will happen? I am not confident at all.

    I think Pennington's made a huge contribution to this team this year, but how does this year stack up against the next 13 (if Ryan turns out to be great)? I really like Pennington, but I try not to let it cloud my judgment.

    As someone said above, it's nice that both teams seem to be fairly well set at QB. It's not like we don't have lots of other, more serious holes worth worrying about.
     
  23. Muck

    Muck Throwback Uniform Crusader Retired Administrator

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    A young franchise QB trumps all. And Matty Ice looks like the real deal. But I don't know that 10 games isn't enough to anoint anyone (Derek Anderson has been mentioned earlier). He could regress. He could flame out. Who knows.

    With Chad Pennington you know what you're getting. We don't know a lot about Henne. He's looked good when he's gotten in. Dan Henning feels he's on par with Ryan right now. For all we know we could be even better. Maybe not.

    I also like to look at contacts.

    Matt Ryan
    6 years, $72 million, $34.75 million guaranteed

    Chad Pennington
    2 years, $11.5 million, $6.5 million guaranteed

    Chad Henne
    4 years, $3.5 million, $1.5 million guaranteed

    Young franchise QB's are worth every penny you pay them. But there is something to be said about a guy outplaying his contract. You have the ability to sign more/better veterans when you don't have those huge contracts.

    There's also the question of depth. If Ryan is hurt, Atlanta will trot out Chris Redman and/or D.J. Shockley. Chad Pennington has privately suggested that he wouldn't mind finishing his career as Chad Henne's backup. That remains to be seen. But Dan Henning probably feels better trotting out Chad Henne than Atlanta does about Chris Redman and D.J. Shockley.

    The truth is, there is no wrong answer right now.
     
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  24. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The main reason why I believe Henne will be a franchise QB is because of his career with Michigan. I watched both Ryan's and Henne's careers closely while they were at college. I came away thinking that Ryan will be an NFL franchise QB and in fact preferred Ryan over all other prospects at the number 1 pick. I also thought that Henne would be a franchise QB but only if he was tutored correctly. What I saw from Henne during pre-season and his play against the Cardinals in week 2 was enough for me to suggest that Henne has corrected his technical and timing flaws. I honestly believe he is going to be up there with the likes of Ryan. It's going to be a wait and see approach though. It's just a personal opinion I have and some others have that we discuss and share in the format of a forum. Call it what you will but it is interesting banter nonetheless.
     

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