19th pick as of today (estimation) who you do draft?

I certainly think he's of the fuller figure. The weight doesn't hurt him, be it 255 or 265 as he has the frame to carry it. To me he just looks like a big LB.

 

Any chance with our first 3 picks we end up with Sintim, Tyson Jackson, and Jerry Peria?


(I didn't say it'd be with our current top 3 picks )

 

You don't think that seems a bit pipe dream-ish?

 

If he were 265 and plays as fast as he does...I think he'd end up a very high grade. Right now I'm not sensing a high grade unless teams decide he's a good enough pass rusher to actually use at 3-4 OLB (which he might actually be).

 

I'm a couple pages late with these, but here's a few pictures of Harvin that I've seen. I'm a terrible judge of somebodies weight by looking at a picture, but maybe these will help you guys. He's certainly got muscle.







Apparently Urban Meyer said he was at 196 pounds last spring, but I don't have a link for that yet.

 

I'd say it is very pipe dreamish, and even Kool aid filled, but what else do you want from me on Nov. 18th?

 

Didn't want a huge post, so I deleted the pics...but from those pics, I would guess b/w 185-195. The mass in his legs, torso and forearms are a good indicator. His ideal PW is probably b/w 190-200 for the NFL. Any more and he loses speed and quickness, any less and injury is likely to occur, especially considering his tendency to carry proportionally more upper-body weight (ie- "chicken legs").

If he weighs any more than 200 for the combine, I don't think it will be much more, and I seriously doubt that he keeps it on through a full NFL season. Just my 2cents.

 

Don't see it mate, but if we did, then cancel day 2 because it's not getting any better than that!

 

In all honesty, Harvin looks to me like he's piling on weight to a frame thatI'm not sure can hold much more. I'm taking nothing at all away from him; I've said on numerous occasions that he is the most exciting thing to watch in all of college football. I just don't think a junior WR who will do the same thing as Ted Ginn will be what we go for. Is he a running back? Is he a wideout? How much route definition does he possess at this stage? Can he run the tree?

Those guns look outrageous I have to admit, but he'll need to be careful. He doesn't strike me a guy who would fit 210lbs.

 

Even at 200 he's a far cry from Ted Ginn. Just because he's super fast doesn't mean that he's another Ginn type that we don't need. Ginn is a 175 lb antelope. I was at the Raiders game- watching him in action, there were times that I was afraid he would be broken in half, spindly arm or leg snapped. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words- Percy Harvin ain't no Ted Ginn.

 

We need offensive weapons, it's obvious when you watch the games. Imagine a guy like Harvin when Henne is running the show- my main argument against taking Harvin would be Pennington's lack of an arm. He is getting the job done, though. Harvin is a pure talent and offensive weapon. I'm not buying the argument that we wouldn't consider a WR in rd. 1. Not for one second. You take special talents and sure things in rd.1 when possible, at least I would. Not another swing on a DE/OLB convert. I'd rather take Alex Mack than a tweener at this point. Henne goes deep to Harvin- has a nice ring to it.

 

Who was the first?

And as much as you say we need playmakers on offense, do you realize that outside of Joey Porter this team has 13.5 for everyone else. Half the teams' total is from one man. Chances are we are goona draft an OLB in the first round or a defensive player.

Also 50% of all the first round picks a BP team has ever had have gone to OLB's. Parcells passed on both Walter Jones and Orlando Pace to take James Farrior once. WR is getting production, the SOLB is not getting good enough production in this defense and this team needs an influx of talent there, RG, NT and then WR and CB. Chances are trhe skill guys get oushed to the middle rounds where this team adds depth.

 

Personally I feel Harvin will be very similar as far as the "rawness" coming into the NFL, he'll need to somehow match Ginn's level-headedness and work ethic to become a good Wr at the next level.

 

Wow, no responce to my idea... was it really that bad guys? lol

 

I am tired of mid 1st round picks. I think you can get just as good a player in the 2nd round who will probably be hungrier and won't cost you as much.

I would trade down out of that pick. That is a spot that many teams like to trade up for. In fact, I would trade all the way out of the 1st round and grab extra picks in the process. Seems like the smart teams work this most years.

 

Well the thing about RG is we did draft someone he just happened to go on IR so it's kind of hard to tell whether or not he's good.

And Smiley is the LG if I'm thinking correctly and I thought he has been playing pretty well?

I might be eating the BP cheese a bit but he was the guy that coached LT. I would love to have the next LT.. or even Ware.

 

General statement, not specific to the Fins. Who have we taken? Off the bat Duhe and I would think that Charles Bowser was a DE, I think at Duke, not sure. More to the point, Vernon Gholston. In my mind taking him over Jake Long would have been a joke, and that's not hindsite.

As to the needs on defense, they gave up six points on Sunday. Granted, it was the Raiders. But the dire needs to improve the O are weapons and a stronger armed QB. Camarillo and Bess are SERVICEABLE. And I know that Pennington is playing well, but there you have it. It would be nice to see Satele and the RG step it up, too. I didn't key on Alleman, I want to see what he can do, wish I had the game on tape.

I haven't given up on Moses and Washington at OLB, and I'm still curious about Ninkovich now that they moved him to ILB, which always seemed logical to me. My three targets for rd 1- Harvin, Alex Mack, and William Moore.

p.s. I forgot about the classic DE/OLB convert/flop- Eric Kumerow. They converted Bokamper, too.

 

I dont quite get your line of thinking. We shouldnt take DE/OLB convert because of players we drafted 20 years ago? I think that's a little extreme considering, like Con said, we like to take such projects. Ireland having control over the draft for the first time took Anthony Spencer, a DE/OLB convert with Greg Ellis, DeMarcus Ware and Bobby Carpenter already occupying roster spots. Considering the lack of a pass rush the other LB's have generated and the affinity BP/JI have for them, I would believe that would be a real high priority on the list considering Charlie Anderson (I believe that's who you mean when you say Washington), Roth and Moses have generated very little considering the double/triple teams Porter sees. Add Porter's age to the equation and your looking at a recipe that adds up to a high pick being used on a OLB.

I think you might be seeing Harvin through some pretty rose colored lenses because I would hardly consider Harvin to be a sure thing. The bust rate for receivers is high for first rounders and couple that with the fact Harvin only being a junior is going to make his transition that much harder. As others have pointed out, Harvin hasn't run a full route tree. Not saying he cant learn to run a full route tree but how long does that take? Ireland, Parcells and Sparano are looking for players that are going to contribute right away and not have to wait 2-3 years to develop like it would probably take Harvin to do. That's why a Clint Sintim makes a lot of sense right now. Add in the well publicized blow up Parcells had with Kraft in NE over selecting Terry Glenn and I just don't see a receiver being taken high.

 

I was actually thinking about Duke Robinson today and remembered your post but couldnt get in on here until now. I dont think Duke fits the mold of what this regime wants at the OG position. They seem to prefer smaller, athletic pulling type OG's. Ndukwe is the biggest at about 330 but he seems to be pretty athletic for that size. Look at Ted's TD run. Who was that downfield with him? Big 68. After that is Murphy is listed at 320 and then everyone else is between 300-310. They tried to make a trade for Chris Meyers I believe from the Broncos but got beat out by the Texans. I haven't gotten to watch Robinson enough to see if he has the athletic ability to fit into our OL scheme. I'll defer that to the guru's.

 

If we can I'm all for it. If not, I think we are going to be looking at some real good players at our spot as of today. Clint Sintim, Aaron Curry, Tyson Jackson to name a few seniors. Add the juniors in and you could be looking at Brandon Spikes, Greg Hardy etc. If we trade down great, if we don't we have good options.

 

Do you know that Camarillo has more catches than Randy Moss and is only 77 yards behind him for the season? The biggest difference is TD's where Randy Moss has 5 compared to Camarillo's 1.

I truthfully expect this team to go backwards next year, and adding depth may be the bigger issue moving forward. Chances are that this team doesn't go out and grab a big time WR, rather going for a guy to fill more of a specific role on the team. This team still needs a big target for the red zone, and they may look to fill that in the draft and maybe add another all around guy for depth purposes. The fact that Ginn is starting to come around may dissuade this regime from looking too seriously at WR early.

The fact that both Roth and Crowder are FA should be noted as a 3-4 lives on linebackers and this team doesn't have anywhere near the quality depth needed for the long haul IMO. How are we to replace these people. Even if we sign one or both back as starters we haven't gotten any better at those positions have we? I mean Roth is still a liability in the pass rush department, and Porter is having the year of his career in case anyone didn't notice. The last time the Dolphins didn't take notice of the career year was with Vonnie Holliday before Cam's first and only season here. Don't rely on that every year I ask you. The chances of Porter duplicating this pace anytime soon are probably slim.

Having a younger guy who can replace Roth and be more athletic is primary to this defense moving forward. Hell getting a guy to replace Roth in the staring lineup and resigning Roth may be the way to go as it improves overall depth and allows Roth to be more situational whilst acclimating the rookie to the game. The possibilities are endless there, and offer more than a WR would now. Seriously, this regime didn't go after WR's very hard in Dallas as they aren't the focal point of the offense. Truthfully having a speed guy, a possession guy and a shifty guy may be what the team ultimately wants - that way everyone knows their roles and it means the offense doesn't rely solely on one man. Such is the situation between Ronnie, Ricky and Patrick Cobbs for example.

 

As to your first point, let me quote myself: "General statement, not specific to the Fins." The names were just a walk down memory lane. Again, the immediate name that came to mind is Gholston- maybe I'll do a little research and produce a list of recent convert flops.

Regarding Harvin, I have little to no interest in the Ginn comparisons. We need offensive weapons- we took Merling and Langford (his Dad plays a mean air guitar at the games- Camarillo's brother looks like an Ali G clone) with high picks, then Murphy and Thomas. Now it's time for DB's and WR's. Inside out, wasn't that the plan? As to Harvin and the "tree"? Please. My Thanksgiving pumpkin will probably have a higher IQ than Ginn and he seems to be progressing nicely in year two. Parcells isn't gong anywhere in a hurry, he'll be here. And if Harvin needs a year and Henne is ready then, sounds like a good combo to me. Parcells will build for the long haul- he'll do the right thing, as he has been.

Yeah, there are issues at OLB opposite Porter. And maybe the UVA OLB will be good- I'm also suprised at how big Cushing looked in that photo.

But there are other issues- our receivers as a group are below average. We could use a safety. Satele is getting little push at C. If there was some stud OLB out there, great. I don't see any Derrick Thomas's or Shawn Merrimans out there. Or to be even more specific, anyone close to that. I see Percy Harvin. I see William Moore. I see Alex Mack. I like what I read about this English fellow from NIU or where ever in a Boomer post- sounds good to me in rounds 2 or 3.

 

Con, I thought Roth signed a 5 year deal and Crowder a 4. Not sure, but I think Roth's signed through 2009. BTW, I agree with Sintim looking more and more likely as this season progresses.

 

The "tree" is not to be taken lightly - by anyone. And the second part of this will has nothing to do with football what so ever. And I'm sorry I have a hard time believing Larry English last until the late 2nd round given that Derrick Harvey and Quentin Groves went earlier last year. With all of these OT's coming out, defensive coordinators will want to arm themselves with quick twitch athletes, and English fits the bill.

 

He's a goner after this year in terms of contract length. It is also pretty rare that a 2nd rounder other than a QB signs a 5 year deal. I could be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge he is a FA after this season.

 

What's all this about a tree?

 

The route tree, it designates the routes that receivers typically run. Here is the simplest way to show it that I have available:

Passing Tree

or

http://gobluemichiganwolverine.blogspot.com/2008/05/coaches-corner-basic-passing-tree.html

 

Matt Roth

According to that he's a Dolphin through 2009 - but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing him replaced. As you said, Sintim and English being my favorite two candidates at the moment.

 

I stand corrected.

 

Who knows what's rattling around in my memory these days. Just curious as to what you think 3 round mock might look like for Miami?

1. Clint Sintim
2. Rashad Johnson
2. B.J. Raji
3. Antoine Caldwell

Something similar? Yes, no?

 

Reading your post again, I see what you mean about the general statement. I don't agree with the point however that we shouldn't take a look at a DE/OLB hybrid because there have been bust through the years. If we did it that way, no position would be drafted. For every Orlando Pace, there is a Robert Gallery. Not Gallery the OG since I think he does fairly well at the position but Gallery the OT. For every Andre Johnson, there are Charles Rogers, David Terrell, Koren Robinson, etc. If we were to use that line of thinking, then we shouldn't touch Harvin because of limited success UF receivers have had over the past years. Taylor Jacobs, Travis Taylor, Reidel Anthony, really haven't done much. Ike Hilliard has had decent career but that's about it.

This street does go both ways however. The recent converts that come to mind: Shawne Merriman, Shaun Phillips, DeMarcus Ware, Joey Porter, Lamar Woodley, Terrell Suggs, Calvin Pace, Adalius Thomas (not quite sure on this one), Greg Ellis. Not exactly a bad list. Of course there are guys that you mentioned earlier. Fact of the matter is, not to many college teams run a 3-4. It's the nature of the beast for this defense. It's why a player like Sintim makes so much sense due to the connections with Al Groh and the fact he plays SOLB in a 3-4 already means less of a transition and guess work.

I think your disdain for our receiving core is a little bit misplaced. Right now with that "sub-par" group of receivers, we are ranked 9th in the league in passing. Ginn is on pace for over 70 catches and almost a 1,000 yards. Camarillo is on pace for 70 catches for almost 900 yards. Not what I would call sub-par. Their TD stat column is a little thin, but when get in the red zone we do fairly well. Could this unit use an upgrade? I believe so. We could use another large possession receiver for match-up problems in the endzone. Those type of players you don't need to spend a high pick on.

In the end Parcells and Ireland just aren't the type of personnel people to take a receiver high. Like Con has pointed out, their history outside of one pick that Parcell's was forced into, they do not take receivers high due to the bust rate and limited contribution most make in their first year. It's why Harvin has a low chance of being the pick. With him being a junior, having run a limited route tree and playing in an unconventional offense just won't sit well with the FO. They believe defense wins championships and it all starts in the front 7 and right now our front 7 still needs work. Merling, Starks, and Langford are great additions but then you have guys on the wrong side of 30 like Ferg and Holliday. They are going to continue to add quality depth to the line. Same thing with the LB's. With their affinity towards them with a 50% drafting rate in the first round, added with the fact that no one is applying pressure outside of JP, that's where they look early to me and possibly again later in the draft.

I don't really see how you can disregard the fact that Harvin has not run a full route tree. He needs to be able to run more than bubble screens to be a contributor on the next level. I really don't understand the IQ comment as I believe Ginn is a fairly smart person. Just because Ginn did it doesn't necessarily mean Harvin will. You are right that Parcells will do the right thing but he will do it the way he has done for the most part. Taking receivers high isn't it. Ireland and him will continue to build this defense and try to find contributors for the offense in the lower rounds.

 

That's not bad at all. After watching Caldwell play some tonight at Mississippi St, I have to agree with Con's statement about him looking like Mawae. Good agility to the 2nd level, watched him make a few real good cut blocks on the DL. Johnson looked good in pass coverage. Didn't get to see much tonight but what I did I like.

 

I only got to see the 1st quarter of the game as I promised my dad I'd go see Quantam of Solace with him (which was a mistake, Casino Royale was a lot better IMO) but I've been real impressed with Johnson of late. Caldwell caught my eye a little when I saw them against Georgia. I guess my only concern is waiting until the 4th round to address CB and/or WR, though obviously free agency might allow us some leeway in addressing those spots via the draft.

 

Well right now I like the idea of bringing in Bryant McFadden and then adding another prospect through the draft. Joe Burnett would be a nice choice since he could double as a punt returner for us. I also like Dominique Johnson from Jackson St. I don't think WR is going to be addressed early for reasons I have pointed out in previous posts in this thread. I like Jeremy Ghilcrest from Hampton in the 5-7 range right now as a punt returner for us and 5/6 receiver. Darius Passmore another guy I like in the mid rounds. Right now I think if Dallas doesn't make decent qualifying offers to Miles Austin and Sam Hurd, we could see one or both signed here as I don't think Wilford survives the off-season. They both would add some decent size to the position and both are decent on special teams.

 

WR Jerheme Urban bears watching as a UFA signing from the cardinals, as he was at camp in dallas when Parcells was there.

 

Well he signed a 2 year contract so he wont be available unless he is cut.

Jerheme Urban

 

Dude, with respect, I think you're drinking the Kool Aid a little on this.

First of all, what is Percy Harvin?

Second of all, Ginn isn't 175lbs. I'll bet that Ginn is up in the 190's.

Thirdly, if you think that Percy Harvis is going to be doing all that he does for Florida in the NFL, then you're generally mistaken and lastly, Miami isn't going to draft a junior WR who isn't really a full time WR who doesn't run the route tree, who has questions about his size and may well be packing on weight to a smaller lower frame in a bid to be drafted higher.

It isn't happening.

If Miami draft him in round 1 I'll buy you your own pub.

 

Why do we need offensive weapons? We have three running backs who in turn have had massive games for us this season, 3 good wideouts and two good tight ends. So far, Cobbs, Brown, Williams, Ginn, Fasano and Camarillo have all had big outings for us. Versatility in weaponry is what this offense is all about.

Henne won't be running the show till 2010 at the earliest unless Pennington suffers a career ending injury.

And whilst YOU might not be buying the argument that they won't draft a WR, they won't draft a WR in round 1 for all the reasons stated previously. They want guys who will come in and perform from day one.

Last time I looked, Clint Sintim isn't a tweener DE/OLB convert.

And anytime you refer to ANY college player as a "sure thing" as you did with Harvin, then you essentially concede the argument.

 

Good player, but with Smiley and Donald Thomas, it's unlikely we take a guard that high. Like I said, they will want immediate starters, immediate contributors from pick one.