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Jason Allen..player or not?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Nov 24, 2007.

  1. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    They sicken me.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't see McFadden making it past the Jets.

    The reason why I like McFadden over Dorsey is Dorsey is hurt alot, even when healthy as for value he just doesn't offer what McFadden does.
     
  3. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Don't playa hate....:winkiss:
     
  4. SuperMarksBros.

    SuperMarksBros. Active Member

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    going rb #1 overall, 3 years after going rb #2 overall is disconcerting...especially given the fact that recent history has proven outstanding rbs can be found much, much later.

    late 1st rounders:

    steven jackson
    joseph addai
    larry johnson
    willis mcgahee

    2nd rounders:

    clinton portis
    maurice jones-drew
    ahman green

    rbs taken much later/undrafted:

    frank gore
    terrell davis
    chester taylor
    brian westbrook
    tiki barber
    marion barber III
    rudi johnson
    willie parker
    priest holmes


    seriously, lets not blow this pick.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2007
  5. Phinperor

    Phinperor formerly In_Flames Luxury Box

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    I agree with the post above, as well as with padre when he says Dorsey is hurt alot. This is why I say if a trade down is not an option we draft C.Long period. The talent level between Dorsey and Long is about even in my mind when comparing each's respective positions, what puts Long higher in my book is his overall leadership and on-field motor.

    btw UVA retired his jersey today at the VaTech game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2007
  6. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Back to the original topic. IMHO Allen has played well the past few games and seems to be doing all the right things with film study and all. I think the light has finally come on and we are starting to see the player we were hoping for. As long as he continues, I believe he will fill the S spot for years to come.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    We will see, he has played very well so far,

    I wonder "why" the coaches just didn't like him as a player? It's as if he was the last guy on the bench and we were out of players before they would put him in there.
     
  8. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    IIRC I read some where he was not putting in the extra time doing film study and such, and got behind. Now that he is doing the extras it says to me that he is starting to get it, and he is figuring out it takes more then natural ability to make it in the NFL.
     
  9. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    Jason Allen keeping up his current level of play is one of the few positives which could come out of these last 6 games. If he plays the next 6 like he's played the last 3-4, he is a solid starter heading into next year. W.Allen has actually been very good this year, and Y.Bell should be back, so that only leaves one starting spot as a concern heading into next year. Not too bad. Draft a good CB prospect @ pick #32 and we could be in decent shape in the secondary all of a sudden.
     
  10. Zeke0123

    Zeke0123 message board ******* Club Member

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    Im tired of the Dorsey always hurt stuff take a good look..[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqiLlOybz9s&feature=related[/ame] ...Does that mean if a guy gets hit by a car and is injured he "gets hurt a lot"...come on.
     
  11. cnc66

    cnc66 wiley veteran, bad spelur Luxury Box

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    zeke, it's no different than all the idots saying that about Ginn.. it supports their agenda, so they say it over and over wanting it to be true
     
  12. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

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    you just countered your own argument right here...

    Ronnie is accumulating over 150 yard per game and we were still losing... that tells you the REST of the team needs to be addressed... not that we need Mcfadden... obviously our running back was outproducing almost every other back in the league and it wasn't enough, replacing that running back isn't the answer...
     
  13. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    U guys need to stay on topic, this isn't about the draft . . . this is about Jason Allen, a player who NEVER got any respect from 95% of you guys. Fact of the matter is, even if he makes mistakes tonight and the rest of the season . . . he is BY FAR the most athletic DB we have in our secondary . . . our hardest hitter back there and he is ALL over the field. Stop doubting his abilities and start showing this man his dues. I have ALWAYS backed him, and even if it looked bad, I still trusted in that philosophy that u can't judge a draft until 3 years go by. Everytime he has stepped on the field he has made plays, no exceptions . . . who cares about judging him in practice . . . I can only judge him by what I see in the game, and he always has played well.

    Hell I have been so brainwashed by some of the negativity towards this kid, I anticipate him making mistakes . . . fact is, he is slowly starting to become the force at safety we thought he would. He started slow at Tennessee as well, and he became a stud . . . I'm very optimistic on his future with the Dolphins.

    My father is possibly the biggest Dolphin critic of them all, and he always talks about how Saban drafted a bum in Allen. Since he has seen him play, he questions every radio personality and every expert that says this kid is no good. Allen and Ginn to him were bust 1 and 2, now those 2 guys are his favorite Miami players, and he is very optimistic about the future of this team.

    Point is, we all judge too quickly on these guys, lets hope that guys like Allen, Ginn, Beck, Satele and others continue the success, so we can focus on other areas of need in this draft and build this team.
     
  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Exactly, the only time I got down on JA was when he kept on making mistake after mistake on Special Teams, that drove me right up the wall.

    The other thing that I enjoy about JA's play is that he seems to be the only guy we have (next to Rod Wright) who has alot of enthusiasm for the game even when we are losing.

    And there is -0- doubt that he is better in both the short term and long term then Cameron Worrel.

    Oh boy and Ted Ginn...my goodness he was public enemy #1 last April, once he got put into games, like JA, he is pretty good, averaging 13 yds or so a catch far ahead of Hagan and he is our only legitimate weapon of offense.

    And BTW, our drops are way down this season, the Bears are leading the league in drops and we weren't even in the top 5 that they listed last night.
     
  15. burger13

    burger13 New Member

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    good post.....except that I think that there was plenty of reason to give Allen the bust label prior to the recent stretch of games. I am one to give players the benefit of the doubt before labeling them busts.....and I've often argued on these forums (you know what I mean) defending some of these guys. But with Allen, when we were down to Cam Worrell and guys we signed off of the street and he STILL wasn't earning playing time, I don't know what else you could call it. That's not even mentioning the backbreaking penalties he was committing on special teams. All we had to judge by were those two things.....he was floundering.

    I'm as happy as anyone that he appears to have found something, and hope that he can play this way consistently the rest of the year.

    BTW - not sure if it showed up on TV, but although he had a great game against the Eagles, he did let himself get sucked up inside on Westbrook's longest run of the day. It's something I'll be watching for tonight from him.
     
  16. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    Yes, the special teams is what also got me thinking negative towards Allen at one point . . . but he is back on Special Teams, he is starting at safety, and he is doing a great job in both areas now.

    The amount of young talent on this team is just amazing. We just need some luck now.
     
  17. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    He definitely still needs work, no question . . . but what better way to get that work in than to be on the field FULL TIME. Both safeties play the run very aggressively and I honestly don't remember the play you are talking about, but I can believe the end result of how it happened. I also will be primarily focusing on our secondary when we are on defense tonight . . . tho I always watch where Porter lines up as well.
     
  18. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

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    yes about Allen, ive been excited about his play and his athleticism... he multiple times last week caught westbrook from behind stopping potentially big plays...

    hes got a great burst, nice closing speed and once he fully gets the mental aspect he should be a good player for us... i love watching these young guys progress :punk:
     
  19. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Well i just hope Allen can learn the system, learn his position and get important playing time. If Bell doesnt come back next season having a new and improved Jason Allen can't hurt.
     
  20. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    Allen would play FS with Bell at the SS . . . truth is, we need to still go Safety in this draft . . . Bell is injury prone, and Hill is an average at best S . . . yea he was playing good, but Allen has a much higher ceiling . . . Bell is wayyy to injury prone to be counted on, he is better served in nickel and dime packages and on special teams. Just my opinion.
     
  21. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I agree, we need another athletic DB this draft, it appears that this will be a good draft for safeties.

    Y. Bell is just hurt to much, and an achilles is a tough injury to come back from 100%, R. Hill is "okay" if a good safety falls in our lap we really should take them and try to make do with Goodman and W. Allen next season.
     
  22. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    Don't forget about Lehan, he IMO is the most improved player on this team . . . . . he really has stepped up this year. Will Allen has been solid since he has come to Miami, and so has Goodman . . . we need a CB also, but not as much as we need safety help.

    CB - Will Allen
    CB - Andre Goodman
    CB - Michael Lehan
    S - Jason Allen
    S - Yerimiah Bell
    S - Renaldo Hill

    these are 6 guys that I would love to see next year in a Fins uniform for our secondary. Daniels really has been dissappointing this year, so bring him to battle with the draft pick for that 4th and 5th CB spot, and bring Worrell back for special teams purposes and safety depth along with another rookie.
     
  23. Garryowen

    Garryowen New Member

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    I'll reserve judgement until the end of the year.

    It'll be nice to see him get soem stabilization at one position though.
     
  24. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    Nothing wrong with that, but I wish more people would take that approach with calling him a bust, instead of saying it before enough time has elapsed for judgement.

    The biggest reason I am a Jason Allen fan is because of your second sentence . . . it's the best thing for THIS team. We cant afford another wasted #1 draft pick, we need these guys playing, and if he succeeds, that is HUGE for this defense and this team.


    I really want him to succeed. No matter what tho, he still is on the SHORTEST least by most fans . . . if he gets burned by Hines Ward tonight on one play, the "bust" threads will be out in full force . . . just gotta hope it doesn't happen.
     
  25. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    What defines a bust...

    Rather..how long must a player play after being drafted to be called a bust. Look at everything Allen has had to endure...between being moved all over by Saban...to just getting steady playing time under Cam. The guy is finally getting a chance.....and you know what..he will probably look bad still at times....but he is getting better.

    IMO, unless the guy just looks completely clueless out there...(and if thats the case...our GM did a horrible job)...you need to give him 1-2 full seasons before calling him a bust. Ronnie took awhile...Allen is....Beck probably will...(dear *** lets not hear the word "bust" with him at least for another year)...


    Lets all agree to reserve the word "bust". Otherwise you just get egg on your face.
     
  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    why is the word *** starred out????
     
  27. Furious Yellow

    Furious Yellow Mixed-Up Zombie

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    A little OT, but speaking of safeties.. didn't we pick up Schulters again before the London game??
    Did he get released again and I missed it??
     
  28. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    Schulters can hit hard, but he can't cover for nothing . . . there is a reason guys like Donovan Darius and Lance Schulters were on the FA wire. . . these guys are past their prime and are only injury replacements.
     
  29. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I've always thought of Jason Allen as being in Capers doghouse. Capers likes smart veteran safeties to run his defense. His ability has never been questioned it's his ability to learn and not be caught out of position. Quite frankly I'll take him being out of position a couple times a game if he's making game defining plays.

    It's like the old Buckley thing. Coaches hated his getting burnt, but he more then made up for it in playmaking.
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which actually brings up a good question:

    Is Dom Capers the guy to lead a Defense filled with rookies and 1-3 year players into a great unit?

    For me, I am doubting that completely, Dom may not be our guy Finheaveners, he likes Vets, we have rookies and youngsters and we will have more coming in next draft as well.

    We may need a Defensive and Special Teams Co-ordinators overhaul as well as a talent make over.
     
  31. Kdawg954

    Kdawg954 Member

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    Special teams definitely needs consideration, and its an interesting thing to bring up Capers . . . the D has played better, but can he handle a team of youngsters . . . there is a good chance Zach wont return and possibly JT as well, no Traylor either . . . iono, its going to be interesting . . . Cam definietly is more secure than both of those 2 guys.
     
  32. Garryowen

    Garryowen New Member

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    I think he's clearly not a capable starting CB. His hips never looked fluid to me, at least to do what a CB in the NFL needs to do and, a young DB's
    confidence is a fragile thing, no matter his draft position.

    I think saying.."Look here, son. You're our starting FS/SS...Go out there and git'er done." is going to help alot. I think he's clearly suited to being a Safety, and, there's not a thing in the world wrong with that. If he can drop down and cover in a nickle/dime situation and, have another guy back there in some situations, great, but, i think the young man deserves a shot at the Safety position, when he knows, THAT'S his position if he makes this team after his contract is up.
     
  33. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I am one of JA's biggest defenders probably. It's good to see him doing well recently, but I likewise am not sold on him completely. I just hate seeing him called a bust when he was getting so little opportunity.
     
  34. MIA4EVER-lives

    MIA4EVER-lives New Member

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    Well to night is a great time, to start Shining
     

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