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Davone Bess outplaying Ted Ginn Jr.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ATVZ400, Dec 8, 2008.

  1. ATVZ400

    ATVZ400 Senior Member

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  2. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Bess is more of a complete WR than Ginn right now, but Ginn is more dangerous. The one thing Bess does great is route running, he was born running a route out of the womb!
     
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  3. Georgia Fin

    Georgia Fin Fin For Life

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    Anyone else get the feeling Bess is auditioning to replace Ginn at PR/KR/WR? He has looked a lot more impressive in all aspects to me. JMO.
     
  4. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Bess does the punt returns and starts at WR, he is not replacing Ginn, he is a different animal in the mold of Cam or Welker. Bess isn't going to scare teams going deep like Ginn.
     
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  5. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Ginn was basically a decoy yesterday. Almost everything Ginn did was down field and it allowed Bess to run underneath him. Seems like it was the game plan all along.
     
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  6. arsenal

    arsenal Sunglasses and advil

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    yeah, the way i saw it was Buffalo was not gonna let Teddy beat them again this week... so they took away all the deep balls, but it kept things open underneath for us... i mean pennington needed 23 completions to have 181 yards... we were dinking and dunking all game...

    but its good that we can go both ways... try to take that away, we'll push to stretch the field... take away the deep stuff, we'll take the underneath stuff... either way we'll move the ball, i like that about our offense...
     
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  7. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I've been very disappointed with Ginn as a returner. He shows flashes of brilliance in the return game and as a WR, but then has several games in a row where he does nothing at all. I think he has one more season to prove himself before the FO starts looking at replacing him.
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    LOL

    You're crazy if you think that the front office is going to replace Ginn. How is he supposed to have good returns, when our special teams STILL sucks? All you're gonns see is flashes of brilliance. When I watch other teams, I routinely see three our four guys on the return team, running up the field, sometimes hold hands, in front of the return guy. I regularly see like, two guys on the Dolphins in front of Ginn.

    Also, as much as I love Pennington, and truly appreciate what he's done here, you can't tell me that he is a legit deep threat on every play. He can't zip the ball downfield. I mean, he'll throw deep if the guy is open, but, his whole game is centered around protecting the ball, and not taking chances. So, Ginn is running deep routes, and drawing double coverage, don't expect him to get the ball. Expect that Pennington is going to continue to throw it to guys like Camarillo (prior to the injury), and Bess. Think of it like this...IF Ginn were being asked to routinely run routes that Bess and other receivers are, and Bess was being asked to run the routes that Ginn is running, who has more catches? Probably not Bess.
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, it wasn't very different when we had Greg Camarillo starting, we find the open man and get him the ball, this is not a "Bess is good so Ginn stinks", they both are good, and they have different roles to play.

    If we could graft Ginn's speed unto Bess's toughness and consistency, we would have the ultimate Wr...
     
  10. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Wasn't able to watch the 2nd half of the game.

    ESPN's highlight package featured 3-4 highlights of crappy passes by JP Losman. Then, they showed the Will Allen INT twice and claimed he didn't catch it.

    Not one Davone Bess highlight. Ugh.
     
  11. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    Sure Bess is outplaying Ginn, but so what. I look at that as a good thing for us, basically developing a starting-caliber WR from nothing (i.e. undrafted FA). Ginn was not polished coming out of school, and - I think - will continue to get better over time, especially post-Penny when we have a QB who can really throw the deep ball (don't misunderstand, I don't want Penny going anywhere anytime soon!!!!).

    In the meantime, we have Bess who is only getting better and better. Good for us!! :up:
     
  12. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    Think typical Wes Welker!
     
  13. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Whatever. The fact is, he runs tentatively on returns most of the time. He does NOT run with the burst I'd expect to see from someone chosen as high in the draft as he was. Sure, with our special teams not being the best in the world, he's not going to have open lanes most of the time, but I expect to still see him TRYING to put some speed into his return. I don't.
    Now you can go back to calling me names and laughing.
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ehh, our ST unit is worse this year then it was last year, and Ginn hasn't been on the returns duty the whole year, but I can agree, Ginn plays like he is holding back a bit to often.

    He plays soft.

    Why Rick, at least I don't laugh at you...:lol::tongue2:
     
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  15. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I'm sorry, I found your brilliant breakdown of Ginn to be laughable. The fact is, if you put Ginn in the slot, and put Bess on the outside, you wouldn't be on here talking about how great Bess is, and how terrible Ginn is. It would be the exact opposite. Ginn isn't being asked to do the same things on offense that Bess is. Does that mean that Ginn CAN'T do what Bess does? I don't think so. Does it mean that Bess CAN'T do what Ginn does? I think that is exactly the case. Bess doesn't have the speed to be on the outside. Bess isn't going to be able to beat corners deep.

    On kick returns, I think that Ginn does a good job of getting up the field, and trying to make plays. It's not his fault that he doesn't have any lanes to hit. NOw that we are 13 games in, and Ginn is used to not seeing lanes, why would you blame him for dancing a bit, to try to create a lane on his own?

    Don't take things so personally, bro. I'm sorry, but I won't agree with someone who is acting like Ginn is a worse receiver than Bess. It's awfully hard to utilize Ginn's speed when you have Penny throwing him the ball. Not saying I don't like Penny, because I do. I just think that everyone has to keep Pennington's limitations in mind when considering Ginn's production, or lack thereof.
     
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  16. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    :woot:
     
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  17. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I'm sure I wouldn't, since I never said either of those statements. I am not coming out and saying Ginn is a bad WR, I am simply saying he hasn't shown anything and that IMHO the current FO won't give him more than one more season to prove he's worth being the number one WR. But it's certain he IS a letdown as a returner. It doesn't matter if the lanes aren't wide open, he doesn't show 100% effort and if you don't put the effort in, good things will certainly NOT happen.
     
  18. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't think Ginn can do what Bess does, he is not physical enough to take the pounding over the middle. He does not run routes as crisp as Bess does.

    But in my first post in this thread I also said that Bess can't be the burner on the outside either.

    They are both different animals, but Bess is the better overall WR out of the two in all facets of his game. (Right now, not saying Ginn can't be better).

    Also, I don't know what has happened to Ginn over the past few games, but he has been very tentative on Kr's, even Tasker was saying it last week during the game.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Straw man? Seriously? You came in this thread, talking about how great Bess is, and saying that he is better than Ginn. Why are you saying that? It's because Bess is playing from the slot, and Ginn is on the outside. It's easier for Penny to get Bess the ball. Not to mention, the Dolphins seem to be using Ginn as a decoy, making it easier for the guys underneath, like Camarillo and Bess, to get open. It's not a straw man argument, it's pointing out the flaw in your assessment of Ginn vs Bess. The fact is, Bess couldn't play on the outside. So, the Dolphins leave Ginn on the outside, where he CAN play, and they put Bess in the slot. To say that that fact makes Bess better than Ginn is disingenuos at best.
     
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  20. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I don't think there is any denying that Bess is the better polished Wr right now. I also don't think Ginn can play the slot, just as I don't think Bess can play outside. It does not mean that Ginn can't get just as polished or better over time.

    I also think Ginn on his first catch yesterday got his bell rung, he got a great shot in the head as he was going down, that could have played into his lack of catches.

    Ginn did have a huge play on his breakup of the INT, you could see his old skills as a corner come out on that play.

    I also think the Bills keyed more on Ginn after the first game he burnt them in.
     
  21. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Are you talking to me? Because I did NOT say that.
     
  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yes..correct...you weren't the original one to say that...although, you seemed to be in agreement with the original poster...my bad.
     
  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would still disagree...I don't think that you can really assess where Ginn is, compared to Bess, as Ginn doesn't run the same routes as Bess. I think that Ginn could play the slot. I think he would do fine. It's easy to assess where Bess is, as the routes they have him running create more opportunity for him to get the ball. We don't really get to see Ginn all that often, so, he's harder to assess.

    His breakup on that pick was great, though.
     
  24. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Silly argument, both are young, without Ginn being doubled you could argue Bess/Camarillo or whoever is opposite doesnt have the days they have had. There is a reason we have watched several receivers have their big days (including Ginn vs. Buff game 1) when he was singled and not doubled. But they need each other...clearly this shouldnt be a who is better debate. Each are equal given who is singled or who is doubled as far as I can see.

    We fans are always looking to identify for some reason who is better, etc....be happy we have both - same with Ronnie or Ricky argument.
     
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  25. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I am in agreement that Ginn has been underachieving. I think Bess has been a great find for us and he has stepped up when we needed him as a WR, but as a returner he hasn't been any better than Ginn.
     
  26. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I think the argument should be more: Bess's position has been out playing Ginn's position. Regardless of who we plug in to it.
     
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  27. PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN

    PENNSYLVANIADOLPHAN Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say Ginn Is underachieving. He is getting better and better each game this season.
     
  28. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I love the way Bess plays football. Like he loves and studies and constantly worked at making himself better. He was a real threat in the Hawaii offense and probably more NFL ready than Ginn was when he came out. How he went undrafted is beyond me but I for one appreciate it!

    However, Billy did a few things yesterday that dared Bess to beat them. They constantly cheated the SS up to protect the run, and the FS was leaning towards Ginn's side of the field the entire game. They wanted to TRY and stuff the run, and were not about to let Ginn have a game like he did against them last time.

    Miami took advantage of thier scheme and Bess made the most of it while the Rb's ran well enough to keep Billy on thieir heels.

    Bess runs the best routes on the team, and probably has the best hands as well but I don't think I'd want to just write off Tedd Ginn just yet. He's shown flashes of greatness, and if he WANTS to, he can be a very good NFL Wr. He better hurry though because he'll probably only get another year, MAYBE TWO, to prove himself.
     
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  29. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    yep....his name is Steve Smith...perfect blend of both
     
  30. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ahh..StLouis...when I say "toughness" I don't mean they need to develop the patented Steve Smith sucker punch of a teammate...:lol:
     
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  31. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    bess is...what we hoped Wilford would be when we signed him.
     
  32. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    At least someone made the joke...

    Personally I think Ginn will be fine, he's still learning and.. Before I finish this sentence, I'm going to forewarn you all... I like Chad Pennington, hell I have him in my sig, what does that tell you? But anyways, Pennington is limited with the deep ball. Can he throw it? Sure, at times. Does he shy away from it? I'd say so. Pennington is a top ten quarterback, without doubt. In fact, I want him starting next year to give us more time to groom Henne or Beck, likely Henne.

    What does this have to do with anything? Well, Ginn catching balls from Pennington will make him a better route runner. We all know that Ginn's downfall was he's a below average route runner. He's getting better and having Chad Pennington as our quarterback will force him into running better routes. And when someone like Chad Henne is plugged in, who can throw the deep ball well, it just means that Ginn will be a much more polished route runner who can still go deep.

    For Ted Ginn, the sky is the limit... And with Chad Pennington calling the shots, it'll only improve a part of his game that scouts frowned upon about him... And that, will make him into a legit #1 receiver. I don't know about you guys, but I don't think wide receiver is a huge need in the offseason. I think we can draft one in the later rounds if someone comes up that we like.. However, I don't, by any means, think we need to "target" one in the first two rounds.
     
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  33. dolphans1

    dolphans1 New Member

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    What I like about Bess is his quck motor. He has quick acceleration and his motor (legs) is always turning. In a way he reminds my of a young Ricky Williams.

    Thus far, Ginn hasn't produced like Cameron thought he would.....

    d-1
     
  34. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Not as a returner.
     
  35. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    The best way to sum it up is that Ginn is an athlete playing football, Bess is a football player playing football.

    BTW, 4 more catches and Bess ties for 2nd most receptions in a season by an undraft rookie.
     
  36. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    If you watch Sunday's game count how many catches Bess had after Ginn cleared out the zone, I count at least 3.
    Ginn's job Sunday was to go deep and draw double coverage which happened a lot. It left Bess M2M on the underneath stuff which he was eating up. They both done their job (except when Ginnn short-armed that 3rd dow catch early.)
     
  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Why did you quote me commenting on the return game and reply with a totally unrelated comment on their WR play?
     

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