----- SI: Draft re-do: Fins take M.RYAN over J.LONG

I think it would be the same as it was this past draft. The front office is big on the trenches.

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense to take a franchise QB if you're not going to protect his blindside.

 

Exactly.

A left tackle with make a QB better a great QB can't do much for a crappy offensive line.

 

Long, as in Jake.

 

The only other guy I could see us drafting would be C.Long because like Alen1 said they're big on trenches. I think they picked Long for a reason. If they wanted Ryan they could have picked him.

That's the beauty of the 1st overall pick. They can have whomever they want.

 

So we pass on the best first year quarterback since Marino. Actually he is having a better year than Marinos 1983 year

You can't pass on a franchise QB

Yes jake long was a good pick but to not pick a franchise qb when he is there would be a mistake

 

are you kidding.. i would take pennington henne and long over matt ryan josh mccown and.. uhh... john greco? the next available LT when we picked henne?. ugh.

 

How do you know we didn't already draft a franchise QB in Henne?

It's way too early to judge anybody in the draft as a success or failure.

Ryan will need to do it for 17 years before I would even put him in the same book at Marino.

 

You have to be pleased with the pick and it has turned out very well. It was also not as high risk as taking Ryan was. I really dont like when people look back on things like that and say what could be. It will never be that way and this is what you have and im very happy we have jake long, just like i think most dolphins fans are.

 

I take Ryan day in and day out. No questions asked.

Do we forget Vernon Carey graded out quite well at LT last year? Justifying an LT before QB is like saying we need Security Guards before there is a building.

 

Still that isn't fair to say until we see Henne on the field.

What if by chance we end up with a franchise QB & franchise LT out of the same draft?

If Henne turns into a s**t sucker then it's a valid argument.

 

Actually,he's not.

 

It's absolutely ridiculous to think what this season would have looked like with Matt Ryan over Jake Long. Who knows how Ryan would have performed with the group of receivers we had and the offensive line we would have without Jake Long. Sure Ryan is performing well now, but the situation in Miami is totally different.

I would draft Jake Long and Henne again any day of the week, because without those guys who knows what would have happened with Pennington.

Matt Ryan is rookie of the year, but who knows if that would have been the case in Miami. I am content with Long as the pick and am downright ecstatic with the way he is performing.

 

That's not the game they're playing though. The game is, today, what pick do you make. And just the first round. That's just how he wrote the column and the rule.

Because if you start playing what ifs. What if we just leave Carey at LT, look for another RT etc. Can Donald Thomas play tackle? Lots of what ifs.

EDIT: I can't believe Henne is even in this conversation. He can be a complete bust for all we know. He might not ever make the full transition. The column is about results, not potential.

 

With or without drafting Henne I would still take Jake Long over Matt Ryan. That being said, if we are redoing the draft now then current team should have a merit in our selection.

 

I think I commented before the link with the article was posted.

You can carry hypothetical situations on forever.

 

I would take a franchise QB over a franchise LT and a 2nd round QB who is an unknown quantity. Yeah, if Henne turns out to be as good as Ryan then we made the right decision, but that's one hell of an "if".

Lucky for us, we found our franchise QB via free agency. 5 years from now we may wish we drafted Ryan if Henne doesn't pan out, but for now we're set.

 

We also need to keep in mind we are a team build in the trenches with two pro bowl caliber running backs. Take Long out of the equation and insert Ryan we would at that point decrease our running ability by virtue of a weaker offensive line and in that same swoop make it tougher to pass.

 

I'd say Ryan. I'm very pleased with Long, BUT I think Sparano can make an OL work with scraps - he's doing it now. Doesn't matter anyway, Long should be a very solid contributer and leader for many years.

 

If I could go back in time I wouldve selected Vernon Gholston.


signed Dave Wanstadt.

 

Unfortunately I laughed :P

 

rayan !! the guys playing like a pro

 

In hinesight I'd go with Ryan all the way. Why? Just look at the QB mess we've had since 99. Some say Henne will be just as good, sorry but I'll believe it when I see it. Going into the draft I was happy we had Beck, I like this guy, but to hit on a Franchise guy who is playing lights out right outta the box is something VERY special. You should never pass on a F QB.

 

i can't say for sure if we'd be just as good with ryan and no LT at this point or not, but what I do know is that Pennington is exactly what our offense needed this season. our guys are young, and needed veteran leadership. sure ryan is playing well, but players like roddy white and michael turner are seasoned vets and can help out a young qb.

even if you don't buy the young argument, you can't deny that our WRs were very underdeveloped at the beginning of the season (and are still raw). they need a qb that is smart and accurate to play with them. throwing a rookie in there just would not have been smart in my eyes. ryan has a good looking deep ball, but our deep game isn't that developed yet.

now, had we drafted ryan, we probably would have still used mccown to start the year, or even still picked up pennington and started him. but with the latter route, then we'd be in the same situation (penny starting with rookie on the bench) just without a LT.
like has been said, we dont know if henne will play at ryan's level or not yet. so really, if we rewind and take ryan, at this moment in time we'd either be sitting here
a.) having a similar debate because penny is doing well and wondering if it was worth it to draft a qb 1st overall and have him sitting on the bench

or b.) having penny/mccown struggling because we have no left side of the o-line, and calling for ryan to come in to get thrown to the wolves as well.

unless you think our front office would have actually started a rookie qb. i just don't think that would have been in the cards, even in a 'what if' situation. just my 2 cents

 

The perfect argument...

 

Shoulda, coulda, woulda is nice but not realistic...If I had anything to do over, I'd have drafted Brees or signed him in FA over Cpep a few years ago, but we don't have that to do over...

Besides, where would our OL be without another tackle ?? Sure, Carey would have probably stayed at LT, but who'd be our RT ?? You can play that game all you want, but in the end, you have what you have and I'll take a bona fide LT first any day of the week when I'm rebuilding a team...

Who's to say that we'd be any better with Ryan at QB anyway ?? Penny seems to be doing quite well at this point for us... You just can't look back and play that game and think that things would be different if you took this guy over that guy...It's just not realistic...

 

Simple question to answer this question. If we had drafted Ryan, and he had the season for us that he's having for Atlanta (and there hasn't been a strong argument to show why he wouldn't) then would any of you want to do a redo and draft Jake Long? Of course not.

Not to take anything away from Long who is having a hell of a season himself. Parcells and Ireland did a fine job of drafting. But if they got a do over, they would take Ryan. Even if they thought Long was better for the team they would still take Ryan.

You can't forget about overall value. To over-simplify, saying you would still pick Long is like saying you would take a Hummer over a Lamborghini (sp?). Maybe because you can go more places with a hummer, fit more people, etc. etc. But the Lamborghini is still worth a hell of a lot more and you could sell it and buy 6 Hummers.

That being said, I'm happy it's Pennington leading this young team down the home stretch.

 

Vernon Carey was not an adequate LT.

And I only know this because of what I see out of Jake this season. I thought Vernon was serviceable at LT because I had never watched week in and week out what a REAL LT could be for the Miami Dolphins.

Now that Jake has shown me that, I never wanna go back to the Vernon Carey, LJ Shelton, W. Smith, Mark Dixon days.

We all revel about the days of Richmond Webb. But in those days we passed just about every down and averaged like 3.1 YPC when we ran. I loved Richmond as much as the next Dolphins fan, but he never proved he could run block nearly as good as Jake.

What I'm trying to say is: Life without Jake is a gloomy place. I don't wanna ever go back to that place again.

 

If you look long-term, we shoulda picked Matt Ryan.

I try to be respectful of other people's opinions (when it comes to football, at least), but I think y'all are being super-homers here. Have any of you actually watched Matt Ryan play a full game this year? I have. The guy is a STUD!!! We'll be supremely lucky if Henne can be 1/2 of what this guy is. Lucky!

I don't wanna hear about Ryan's weapons or his OL. The 2007 Atlanta team was just a click less crappy than the 2007 Dolphins. I'm loving Pennington and the 2008 Dolphins, but if we'd have drafted Ryan, we'd have our QB situation set for years. In my opinion, the importance of having a stellar LT is second only to having a stellar QB.

I love Long and I wanted us to draft Long. I think he'll be great for years to come. But, with 14 weeks of hindsight, Ireland/Parcells and even Gardenhead were wrong.

 

Nothing against Jake Long...he has played very well for us. But you CAN find LTs in the draft and free agency. Franchise QBs are a rarer quantity these days.

 

Exactly, the two positions are critical, but one more so than the other.

I wonder how many of the 48 people who chose Long over Ryan have actually watched him play a full game. Probably 5 or 6.

 

The perfect short-term argument. The long-term argument would be to have picked Ryan.

 

Ryan also has good recievers, especially ones who can stretch the field. Not sure he would have had the same early success in miami. Roddy and Jenkins fit his throwing style more than the short route WR we have.

I'm sure he would have done good with our WR crew, just not sure if the stat lines would be the same

 

I'm sorry but Ryan hasn't proven to be a franchise QB yet. He has been playing great ball for a rookie, but lets not forget that his team has really stepped up around him as well. In all the games I've seen him he is doing things like throwing off his back foot, locking on WR's and so on. They have protected him with a lot of short-medium length passes and a great running game as well.

Thats not to say he isn't going to be great. He has impressive down field accuracy and usually has made smart decisions with where to throw the ball. I just think it's too early to crown him the next king of QB's.

 

I guess we'll disagree.

I dont care what foot he throws off of. Brett Favre throws off the wrong foot, locks in on receivers, hangs them out to dry, and he broke all of Danny's records.

I've watched him play and I've examined his stats and he will be an elite QB for a long time.

 

He also holds the record for most INT's thrown.

I'm not saying he won't be an elite QB, but I don't think a 14 TD to 7 INT line deserves the hype he's getting. Though his completion percentage is very impressive especially for a rookie. Ryan could be the next Marino but I think it's too early to say so.

 

Impossible to answer this question right now. Who is to say that Henne doesn't come in and outplay Ryan???

But if a gun was put to my temple and I had to choose, I would take Ryan.. We don't know what we have in Henne.. But we do know that Ryan is going to a be a very good QB for a very long time... Stable franchises have one thing in common.... And it starts with the QB.

 

He also has 3 MVPs and 1 Superbowl. I'm not sure why the INT record is significant. Yes, its early, but I've actually seen him play a full game and the dude can make all the throws and he's got the intangibles.

 

I've seen him play a full game (vs Chicago I believe it was) as well along with multiple other bits and pieces.

The INT record is significant because it hurts your chances to win when you turn the ball over. How many Superbowls could Brett have won if he had better decision making?