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Matt Cassell or Tom Brady?

Discussion in 'Other NFL' started by Firesole, Dec 20, 2008.

  1. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    So yesterday I was listening to a podcast from ESPN radio from the previous day, and the host (I forget who, maybe Cowherd) brought up a very intersting point I had not thought about. He was talking about how Cassell has played really good this year, probably deserving of a Pro-Bowl nod, and that he is a free agent this summer. Basically he was saying that he could see a scenario where some team would give up alot to trade for Tom Brady and the Patriots stay young and healthy with Cassell. I doubt that the Patriots would let go of Brady, but if somehow they happen to get to the Superbowl this year opinions could change.

    I don't think there is any way that both of these guys will be on the Patriots roster next year. Cassell is going to land a big payday after his performance this year, and there is no way that Bellicheat pays someone that much to ride the pine. Its gonna be a very tough decision for them when it comes time to decide whether to let go of Brady (3 time Superbowl champ who turns 32 this year) or to go with a younger Cassell.

    My question is if you were GM of a team in the NFL, any team, who would you go after? Would you rather pursue Tom Brady who might not even be ready to start the season due to his injuries (and might never be the same again) or a younger, healthier, Cassell in the offseason? If you were to trade for Brady, how much would you trade for him?

    Personally I'd have to stay with Brady, the guy is just a winner. But I think a team like the Vikings or Bucs would definitely be in the running for him.
     
  2. MS4FINS

    MS4FINS Season Ticket Holder

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    Tom Brady for sure! He is a proven commodity. I wouldnt trade a pick or player for either, personally. We have a great QB right now and another waiting in the wings
     
  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Bill Simmons laid out a scenario in a recent column. The Pats franchise Cassell, wait awhile to see whats up with Tom. If it looks like hes not gonna be ready, they keep Matt to start the season with and let him go after that season.
    Or if they determine Brady is good to go, they trade Matt for franchise picks to a team like Detroit or San Fran.

    IMO sounds logical. I dont know how willing a team would be to give up a first (and more) for Cassell, but someone surely might.
     
  4. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    Tom Brady is better then Cassell will ever be so they should and will stick with brady
     
  5. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    It really annoys me when people, mainly the media, talk up the new and shiny player like he's somehow demonstrably better than the last guy because he won some games.

    Cassel has surprised a lot of people this year, but what the heck has he done to deserve being tapped as the full-time starter over a future Hall of Fame QB? Thrown to Randy Moss and Wes Welker? Yeah, Tom Brady did that too, except he won an MVP award for it: Cassel didn't even get a Pro Bowl berth.

    texanphinatic's scenario is the most reasonable and likely. If Brady somehow can't go, you've got a franchised Cassel ready to play. If Brady's fine, then O'Connell becomes the #2, you draft a QB in what could be a fairly deep class, and Cassel gets converted into draft picks.
     
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  6. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I don't get rid of cassel. Or brady.

    I give Cassel a deal. If brady doesn't come back for whatever reason at least you've got someone there that knows your system and is pretty good at it.

    What to do with brady if that happens? I have no idea.
     
  7. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Franchising Cassel would cost them about 12 million dollars against the cap right there. I don't see the Pats of all teams doing that, injured Brady or not.



    The Pats are not going to shell out the deal Cassel would get at FA for what's likely a backup QB. Plus, they are high on O'Connell.
     
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  8. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    If they're big on him why is cassel in and not him?
     
  9. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Because Cassel is playing well. Doesn't mean he's playing well enough for the Pats to give him the kind of deal some desperate team is going to throw at him in FA.
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    They are absolutely high on O'Connell. I remember after Cassel's first couple games, they thought about benching him for O'Connell. Then Josh McDaniels did his thing and look at Cassel lol.
     
  11. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    I'm not saying they're not high on the guy just wondering why they're not playing him if they're that high on him he'd be in.. except like you guys say cassel is playing well.

    How much money is cassel projected to get as a FA?
     
  12. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    My guess is somewhere around $60 million.
     
  13. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Give NE credit, they seem to turn Chicken S**T into Chicken Salad more often than other teams right now....I am sure how they handle and resolve the Cassel vs. Brady issue will be no different.

    They handled and maximized the Bledsoe vs. Brady issue...this will be similar. Someone will give them more then they deserve.
     
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  14. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'd take Cassell because I think Brady is an extremely overrated product of a great system. Even with Brady this year I think their record would be the same.
     
  15. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    If Brady is a product of a great system then so is Cassel.
     
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  16. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    That's exactly my point. Cassell will not cost as much as Brady and will be equally effective AND someone will give something up for Tom.
     
  17. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Brady's already underpaid relative to his numbers. Compare his contract with Peyton Manning's.

    Cassel could likely make more by hitting free agency than Brady is currently making.
     
  18. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Have you guys watched Brady play for the past 8 years!?!?

    The guy is a top-5 all time QB. I used to think he was a product of the system/lucky, but he makes ALL the throws and leads his teams to victory.

    I hate him with a passion, but my top 5 QBs of all time include Brady. He's earned it.
     
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  19. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Yeah he really is an incredible QB. Top 5 all time, I dont know, but hes certainly a HoF (first ballot) and a top 10 no question.
    They would be idiots to keep Cassell over him, unless someone is offering an absolutely monstrous deal the size of the Herschel Walker one, or they are convinced hes not coming back well from the injury.

    Which is why you franchise Cassell. Yeah, it will hit your cap, but if your not sure Brady can step in from day one and win, you need Cassell. They might be high on O'Donnell as the QB of the future, but the Pats also can win NOW, and Im not sure he gives them that chance as much as Cassell, and especially Brady do.
    Then if it turns out Brady is fine, find a trade partner and do the tango. The Pats have done it best for years, I have little doubt they will manage it just fine here whatever they do.
     
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  20. Straz

    Straz Me and my girl :)

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    The Pats will stick with Brady, but I still think they are both overrated.
     
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  21. sking29

    sking29 What it takes to be cool

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    To me the answer will lay in how healthy Brady is but if he looks good and they are high on O'Connell I say they let Cassell go. Brady is clearly a better QB in the same system and makes that system better whereas Cassell simply benefits from it. Lets look at the stats:

    Matt Cassell (2008 stats):
    TD: 18
    INT: 11
    Yards: 3,270

    Tom Brady (2007 stats):
    TD:50
    INT:8
    Yards:4,806

    These stats came with virtually identical offenses (Donte Stallworth was really the only loss). Looking at the stats Brady is a big time QB and Cassell is nothing special at all. I would venture that his stats are pedestrian for the system and any team giving big money to Cassell will be let down. Lets now drive this home by showing Brady's stats for the 2006 season before the offense was loaded with Moss and Welker.

    Tom Brady (2006 stats):

    TD:24
    INT:12
    Yards:3529

    Brady puts up similar stats with a much worse offense. Give Cassell that offense and his numbers would be putrid. Looking at the stats the Pats without a doubt should choose Brady if healthy and never pay Cassell a huge contract. Because of Cassell's weak numbers I fully expect him to be let go if Brady is healthy otherwise New England is crazy. I mean look at Chad Pennington's stats with nowhere near the offense Cassell has and you can really see how Cassell is nothing special.

    Chad Pennington (2008 stats):

    TD: 14
    INT: 6
    Yards: 3,218
     
  22. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    There's no way the Patriots can afford to keep both. Either they trade Brady in a Hersher Walker-esque type deal in an offer they couldn't refuse (which I don't see happening) or the'yll have to cut ties with Cassel. I agree that both benefit from the Patriots' system, and I don't see either guy excelling on a different team.
     
  23. GISH

    GISH ~mUST wARN oTHERS~

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    brilliant post bro. :up: I would nominate this for post of the month if it existed.

    I also would keep Brady. Matt Cassel is doing a great job of executing their offense right now. Most of their plays are quick reads that get the ball out of his hands as fast as possible. They don't want him taking sacks, and they don't want him making hurried throws. Any QB with a desire to win will succeed in their system. Bill Belichick is the best in the game at getting the most from his players. Sparano is quickly making a splash in that category, but Bill is the king. I don't think a below average QB like Cassel would be able to elavate a losing team into a contender. There's only one team in need of a QB that I could see Cassell succeeding on; and thats the Singletary 49ers. Houston could potentially be compatible, but may require more from Cassell than he has to offer. Cleveland, Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Detroit, Chicago, New York, and St. Louis could all potentially be interested; but I think they would all be kidding themselves if they thought they could win with Cassell. I don't think Cassell gets any more than a 3 year $20 mill contract.
     
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  24. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't believe there is a debate.

    The debate should exist only if Brady does not get healthy.

    Gimme a healthy Brady over EVERYONE in the league. Every day.
     
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  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I think Minny could do well with him, but any losing team expecting him to be a savior I think will be dissapointed. Houston I dont think will be going for him. Kubiak will likely get one more year (as will Schaub) to make the playoffs or else. If they fail in '09 I think both are gone and they go with new HC and rookie at QB. Minny, San Fran or Tampa would be the most logical spots to me, but who knows.
     
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  26. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The day that idiot Stephen A Smith makes a commercial about the patsies, and says, the Patriots have Cassel, and "frankly, that's all you need." I'll keep Cassell. Until then, its Brady all the way.
     
  27. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    You lost me here. I'll take Peyton over Brady in the AFC Championship, and Eli over Brady in the Super Bowl. :up:

    I honestly might take Drew Brees, Jay Cutler, and Matt Hasselbeck over Tom Brady, too.
     
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  28. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    With what the Pats have done with Cassell, a QB who never even started a college game, I have begun to doubt exactly how talented Brady may actually be.

    I was never a believer in the Bellicheat and the Pats system making Brady theory.
    I always leaned the other way. That view has changed completely for me now.

    I think it's pretty obvious with how their doing with Cassell that it's not Brady that's made Bellicheat or his system.
     
  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You are tripping Des! Peyton vs. Brady, it's a ginger vs. mary ann question. It depends, and neither is the wrong answer (I'll take brady ... on the football field! Mary Ann in the sack!)

    Everyone else is a distant distant tier below. To me I think Peyton is highly overrated. But that's just me. Brady is just that good in my eyes.
     
  30. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I'm completely serious. I would count on Peyton Manning's efforts to win a game more than I would Tom Brady's efforts. (I'd take Dan Marino over both, of course.)
     
  31. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The only efforts of Peyton's that were of any significance was when he cried really hard after losing to the Patriots once again, which got the NFL to change their rules and caused Dan's records to go down to these two.
    I'll take Tom every day and twice on Sunday. :lol:

    But what I was talking about though, was not your pick of Peyton, but when you start saying Brees, Hasselbeck, and Cutler who overthrew two WRs on TD routes today which would have caused them to win the game, I say you're nuts.
     
  32. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Brees... shouldn't have to explain that.
    Hasselbeck is Chad Pennington with a strong arm. Take him off that team and it falls to crap--as evidenced by this season.
    And I mention Cutler because, were I allowed to build a team from scratch that had to stick together for a decade, I would pick Cutler to QB it. Yes, even over Ryan, Flacco, Rodgers, etc.
     
  33. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't see how anyone would actually give Cassell a huge contract for one good year with a team that was 16-0 last year and has a few of the better wideouts in the NFL. He could NEVER carry a bad team or put up numbers on a mediocre team. Someone stupid will shell out the cash but they are going to regret it.
     
  34. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Cleveland put Anderson on the hook and hoped a stupid fish would take the bait. I see a similar situation, Pats will franchise him and dangle him out there waiting for the bait, if there are no takers you have both a great QB and good QB backing him up on your team. Not a terrible problem to have, unless cap space becomes an issue.
     
  35. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    I disagree here.

    Here's why I agree with Desides on the flip side:

    If you take Peyton Manning off the Colts and put him in charge of any other team, I truly believe that that team becomes a legitimate playoff/Superbowl contender (except for teams such as the Lions and Rams)

    On the other hand, if you take Tom Brady off the Pats, I don't think he succeeds the way he has.

    With the way Matt Cassell has significantly progressed as the season has went on in this system, I just don't understand how others don't see it. The guy hasn't started a game since High School and he's got some of the best numbers in the NFL and his team on their way to 11 wins. Had he had some experience, they would've killed the Jets in that first game he started and his team would be staring down 12 wins.

    And don't forget, Matt Cassell is doing this with the worst and most depleted Patriot defense of the decade. And I'll give you the fact that he has Randy Moss to throw to, but please don't give me the Wes Welker argument. Outside of the Colts and Pats, Wes Welker is a 65 catch slightly above average slot receiver on any other team
     

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