As tends to happen as the Bowl Games get bigger, the draftable players grow and grow. Tonight's Oklahoma State/Oregon game is a draftniks dream and worst enemy; dream because there are so many players who will be selected in April 2009 or 2010 but worst enemy because it makes watching every play so difficult, watching each player on rewind at least once so as not to miss anything. You'll see the nations best TE in Brandon Pettigrew; outstanding blocker with super soft hands; can he answer the questions about his middle and long speed the way he did a year ago with a stunning showing against Texas? One of my favourite players in the draft. Often lining up next to him will be LT Russell Okung. A junior, he's on the fence, but would dive straight into the mix in round 1 if he declares. His upside is massive. Oregon have three possible first rounders; utility lineman Max Unger is the best center in the draft, but can literally play anywhere along the line. Could easily be a 10 year RT in the pros. He's supremely athletic and devastating at the 2nd level. Running behind Unger is the very talented LeGarrette Blount, he is the JUCO sensation who took over from Jonathan Stewart. At 6-2 and 229lbs, with power and speed, he bears watching, although I suspect he'll stay in school. Finally, one of the most under the radar players in all of college football is Jairus Byrd. Son of the great Gill Byrd, he's similar to Syd'Quan Thompson in his love of run support and he has very solid cover skills and punt return ability. Byrd is leaning towards declaring and could easily end up in or around the top 2/3 corners to come off the board. Quite apart from these 5, the game is stacked; Fenuki Topou plays T for the Ducks and may well get late round consideration, David Washington is a versatile vet on the OSU line, Jacob Lacey is another underrated CB for the Cowboys, Pat Chung is a big safety for the Ducks who is a downhill run player. Should be a cracking game and is loaded with talent.
Gil Byrd was a hell of a player. Pettigrew is a great prospect, but no way do we go TE in the 1st IMO. I'll watch the game mainly to see Unger play- I would also like to see that G from BYU that you mentioned- he must go 330 or so, probably a great run blocker from what you described.
Don't forget Nick Reed. Undersized and slow, yet he's a tackling machine. Last year he had 22.5 TFL's and 12 sacks. This year he kept it up with 13 sacks and 19.5 TFL's. He's a smart player with a high motor. If he only had better size and speed, he'd be on everyone's radar.
What should us poor normal fans look for in deciding whether a player is a good or poor NFL prospect?
Depends where the player you're looking at plays mate. If you're looking at a defensive lineman for example, how quickly does he move off the snap? What's his get off? Doesn't matter how big and strong he is if the blocker gets there first. Does the guy he hits get rocked back upon impact? Does he have enough pop? How quick are his hands? If you can't disengage then it's over. Is he stiffin his hips or can he change direction with fluidity? Does he pursue? Can he stay on his feet? What about a CB? Can he run? If he has speed issues then is he more suited to a zone? Does he play close to the man and if so, what's the contact like at the LOS? Is it minimal or does he rock him off his route? What technique does he use? Is he a pure backpeddaler? If so, what's the footwork like? Is it pure, is it choppy, is it smooth, how much wasted movement is there? Is he body aligned - heads, shoulders, hips, knees, feet? Does he sidesaddle when he drops? Does he do half and half? How aware is he not only to the ball, but to his man? When his man cuts, how does he transition? ie. how does the next movement come? If he's backpedalling and the wideout suddenly stops and turns, how does the corner come out of the backpedal? How quickly can he stop and gear back up again? Does it take an age? Watch Dominique Rodgers Cromartie in the playoffs at the weekend on Roddy White. White is a good head and shoulder faker in his routes, but DRC has perfect technique in and out of his transition with exceptional feet and fluidity. By that I mean he plants and drives very rapidly. White doesn't run a lot of comebacks, but he runs deep ins, square ins, posts, corners, etc. How does DRC play him? How does the corner stay deep? Does he give up the inside too easily? Does he run deep and not look back to the play? Can he play the trail technique effectively? Can he diagnose run and turn back into the play and make the tackle? When the ball's in the air does he turn his head or does he watch the eyes of the wideout? If he's in the right position, he's often able to turn to the ball. Can he play the ball in the air? How does he jump? And of course most importantly, can he flip his hips? By that I mean, can he open his hips to either turn and run or break back to the ball? You quickly pick up the sorts of things with each guy.
There we go Boomer and thank you, Qb's and Wr as well? Are Lb's supposed to play like Cb's and stuff like DT"s? I'm no Guru, what I look for is closing speed, movement for the position, quickness v opponent, and technical things, like a Deep Safety looking back for the ball or beating a Receiver to the spot of the throw, and first steps. All I look for with Wr's are body catching or hands catching, seperation, willingness to make a play, and blocking. DT's...first step, anchor, and moves, even the slowest DT on the planet can use a swim move...most I've watched however...don't. DE's, upfield speed, play diagnosis, moves, anchor, and shed. Pretty much the same for OLB's, but moving in reverse is more important, how quickly can they drop into coverage after diagnosing the play? ILB's are reduced to stack and stuff, drops into zone, and surety of tackling. CB's, jam, turn, ball in the air, speed long and short, physicality. But the thing is, during most of these games, some no name guy will show more then the supposed "prospect"..OSU Laurentis is a case in point..
Linebackers it's different because there are two distinct differences. Are they 3-4 linebackers; on the inside, do they flow through trash well? Guards will be getting immediately to the 2nd level to take them on. Are they quick enough to evade that or if not, can they disengage and make the play? This comes then through technique. Where do they put their feet? Their hands? Do they play high, do they sink their hips and drive a guard or a fullback, do they get leverage? On the outside, can they rush the passer effectively? Have they got speed, body lean, good hands off the edge? Are they athletic? Can they turn and cover a tight end, a slot WR, a back down the field? Are they bigger? You're not going to be 6'0 and 225 and be a 3-4 LB. Or are they 4-3 linebackers? Smaller interior guys covered up by two big space eaters in the middle. Perfect example is Zach behind Bowens and Gardener. Zach was able to flow to the ball because he had no real trash to work through because Tim and Daryl occupied 3 and 4 players every snap. And the 2nd part to that equation; are they 2 down linebackers or can they play all 3? So can they cover? Same as with a CB; you're looking at feet, are they zone guys with everything in front of them or can they turn and run singled up? Routes are very important with wideouts. Watch Greg Carr of FSU. Lot of talent, great hands, great size. Runs some of the sloppiest routes you'll see. Alternatively look at Hakeem Nicks. Another tall, big wideout like Carr. Runs brilliant routes and therefore is open a lot more than Carr who is much more sedate. Look at Davone Bess; 4.61 at the Combine, came from a spread offense. But he has soft hands and runs very disciplined routes. So with a wideout, can he stretch a field deep, like a Maclin? Is he a possession guy with great hands who runs good routes and can block like an Austin Collie? Or can he be a great slot guy, with great feet and short areaa quickness, perhaps like Mike Thomas of Arizona. It's horses for courses. I always have a plan of who I'm going to watch. So I have my notebook with however many draft eligible names. I tend to ignore the FA types but then if you start with a set number of guys, you always keep seeing a guy making a play or two and then you jot him down and boom. But it's easier to keep an eye on the main guys and then let those on the periphery surprise you. At least it is for me.
Would've thought Blount would stay when Johnson graduates to be the head back next year. Only reason I'd imagine he leaves is grades. Patrick Chung is good against the run but not so much against the pass. He gets bullied easily by TE's and big WR's and unless he gets an early read on the QB, just cannot keep up with a WR deep. His best fit is with a team that blitzes the safety often or needs immediate special teams help.
For ILB's, I'm looking for a Levon Kirkland type, preferably from a no name school, a guy who can whip the Guard or FB, and make the play, and then at least adequately drop into the mid level zone, Channing and Akin can't do that at the moment That is a part of the reason why IMO, Matt Roth is miscast as a OLB...he would be great in just causing a collision and peeling off to make a play. True, but the problem with that is College teams rarely stay in a base 3-4 or 4-3, with 90 man rosters, they substitute alot now. Rare LB who can do that though, normally they come into Training Camp and THEN show they can do that, Vern Gholston is a abject study in a guy who "should" be able to play in space, but cannot..no reverse gear on him.. BTW, we both whiffed on Glen Dorsey, we had quite the row over his play in the Title game and his health...I came around but he didn't shine this year...at all.. True, Wr , an impact Wr, is one of the hardest postions to draft for, the NFL is littered with Mr. Saturdays who never made it to Mr. Sundays, and Nicks, not sold on the guy. Bess has the knack that many Mr. Saturdays never pick up, solid hands, and "feel" for a soft spot in a zone, what makes Bess really remarkable is his lack of size, he must have that knack for creating space like Charles Barkley did for snatching a rebound. Here we disagree, I like seeing a Wr who can break a zone just with his speed, the more a Wr can expose a Safety, the better their chances of making it in the NFL. Tory Holt was like that in his prime. And that is why you are the man..I don't have the patience for notes, and I'm dying with curiosity "why" we were scouting Alabama so heavily this season. Rb's...and Qb's Boomer? Quarterback is such a nuanced position...will a spread guy make it in the NFL? IMO, Beck's problems stem from playing in a shotgun mostly BYU offense, Adamprez is the guy who knows Qb's like a Sommelier knows his wine cellar.
Unger is looking good, about 10 minutes into the third quarter now. He seems to have it all- power, good feet, balance, good standing up his guy in pass pro. I don't know anything about the guys he's facing, but they seem to end up on the ground quite a bit. When you throw in his versatility I could easily see this guy going in the 1st round.
Unger is a flat out stud. Bends his knees, sinks his hips in pass pro, stands his guy up and keeps him in front of him. Head is on a swivel and constantly looking for someone, anyone to hit. Fires out in the run game and is very quick to the second level. I have seen a lot of prospects this season that I think are out standing players but have yet to pick a man crush. After tonights game though, I may have to confess my undying devotion to Unger.
He didn't participate in this game for obvious reasons but I just got done watching Sean Smith in a re-airing of Utah v. Oregon State. Best cornerback that I've seen this year, topping Jenkins of OSU and the overrated Davis of Illinois. Smith changes directions quick, he is willing in run support, I liked that he mixed up his coverage. He can clearly play man to man as he showed long speed and recovered once where he didn't have Safety help but him mixing up ihs coverage was what I liked. He played the side saddle technique that we saw Syd'Quan Thompson play, he then went to the usual backpedal and then I saw him play bump and run. By my count through quartesr 2-4, he played it four times. Four more than I've seen every other cornerback play this year; small exaggeration but just about true. He didn't have any problems playing bump and run, on one play completely dominating Sammie Stroughter I believe it was. In run support, I liked that when Oregon State went to their back of tricks, he stayed home. He didn't over-pursue, instead staying home and forcing Jacquizz Rodgers to a 2 yard gain, instead of a long touchdown. Another play, he jammed the receiver at the line of scrimmage then sniffed out the screen and was about to make the tackle before a pulling OSU linemen pushed him down. Only flaw I saw was that he got a bit high in his backpedal a few times but he's a taller CB so that's expected. No doubt in my mind he's a first rounder and could be the first CB taken IMO. Back to the Oregon - Oklahoma State game, I didn't get to tape it because I'm not home but I caught some of it. Max Unger definitely impressed as others mentioned. He got to the second level on quite a few occasions and did a good job in pass pro. I saw Jaison Williams, whose no first rounder but a name known, drop two balls but then came back with a long play down the sideline. Dez Bryant played a good ball game. If not for the injury, he would have possibly doubled the 110 yards he had in the first quarter and a half. I did like that he came back and fought for his team, playing on one leg. It was clear that he dragged it when running routes a few times. Prior to the injury though, he ran excellent routes IIRC and showed good speed. I like that he plays "angry" as was pointed out by the commentators, reminded me of Steve Smith when he goes out there on Sundays. Bryant played with a chip on his shoulder and was expected after all the questions about him not getting to the end zone in the big games. Its pointed out in just about every big game, I have it on tape at home when they went up against Oklahoma. I also wasn't sure what to make of him getting in an argument with his teammate on the sideline, #44. Watching him, he seems to be a diva. Nevertheless, good game from him. Patrick Chung struggled in pass coverage as was noted. LaGarette Blount is a specimen. He's bruising, yet quick. Didn't catch much of him though.
This is the first time that I saw him play, and I was impressed. I also have to admit that at first glance he looked better than Alex Mack to me- smoother, better feet, better athlete, but also bringing the power. Unger strikes me as a guy that brings some Caldwell with him and some Mack as well, and that's a mighty good combo. Throw in the versatility of playing C/G/T and I think that this guy goes top 20-25.
Definitely. That was the first time I've seen him and I didn't see many flaws in his game. As I said only getting high in his backpedal was about it.
Really looking forward to the Julio Jones match up. I know Ireland doesn't favour DB's high, but to me, Smith is certainly on the board for us.
I get the feeling that although we could truly use a NT or a SOLB, we could do ourselves a major favor by selecting Unger. He'd be one of the few Cs in the NFL capable of taking on both NTs and quick penetration DTs. If you have a talented C such as Unger you can utterly destroy a 3-4.
I guess gone are the days where a premiere LT is tough to find. In the last 2 drafts and continuing in the future, it seems as if they are becoming a dime a dozen with all the talent out there, and more to come.
Not necessarily as there have been a number of guys who look like possible busts to come out recently. I do agree that there have been a surprising number of good ones to come out though. The one thing I've noticed is that few teams have Cs capable of what I was mentioning earlier. It would be an incredible bonus to have a C capable of blocking NTs one-on-one like Andre Gurode can but with the ability to play against 4-3s.
