Do they break it down by game? The Buff and SF games in particulare. I found it odd that he had 3 caught balls those 2 games total. I can't rmember if they just did not throw to him or what the deal was with those two games.
If I had to.. I'd say Ginn. If I had a choice of any WR then it would have to be Wilford, for who I had high hopes for!
He was thrown to 3 times against Buffalo and 4 times against San Fran. What I didn't understand was why he was thrown to once in the Arizona game and twice in the Houston game.
Good question, maybe someone that has the games taped can take a look and maybe have an opinion on that. So in 1/4 of the games he had the ball thrown to him 10 times for an ave of 2.5 per game and the rest of the season had the ball trown to him 83 time for a 7 per game. Just goes to show the way a season flows i guess.
People complain that he didn't put up #1 WR stats but that's because he wasn't thrown to as many times as a #1. That Arizona game baffles me. He must have pissed off the coaching staff because I barely remember him even being on the field.
Hate to be a pain, but what are some of the numbers of passes thrown to ,drops for some of the #1 WRs out there for comparison
I think they are all valuable to this team, but if I had to pick one it would have to be Cam. As has been pointed out, he and Bess are very similar, but I believe Bess has not yet reached his potential. Several of you have bashed Ginn. I think he had some confidence problems to start out the season, but by the time he blew up against Buffalo he was past that. I think a lot of DC's saw what he did against Buffalo and got a little scared, because he saw a lot of double coverage after that. Think of it this way, Ginn had a higher average YPC than #1 receivers like Andre Johnson, Reggie Wayne, and Hines Ward.
Calvin Johnson - 151 targets/9 drops= 1 drop every 16.7 targets Roddy White - 148 targets/9 drops= 1 drop every 16.5 targets Ted Ginn - 93 targets/6 drops= 1 drop every 15.5 targets Brandon Marshall - 181 targets/12 drops= 1 drop every 15 targets Terrell Owens - 140 targets/10 drops= 1 drop every 14 targets Dwayne Bowe- 157 targets/13 drops= 1 drop every 12 targets
First, I wouldn't trade either w/o gaing another beforehand. But out of the 3, I chose Ginn because if you're going to trade, trade for something of decent value. Of the 3, i belive bess is the best of the lot and would keep him at all costs, unless someone offered something ridiculous for him, and I don't think Cammarillo would bring much in a trade so I would keep him instead of giving him away for say, a 7th rnd pick.
Thanks so much!! I did not expect to see that big of a difference, I would be willing to put good money if we threw to Ginn at the same rate as Bowe we would not be having this conversation. Ginn would be in the same conversations as todays #1s. projected out with 157 targets 94 rec. with 1325 yds useing his 14.1 yds per. yeah he is a bust
Or if you gave him the same amount of targets as Desean Jackson he would have had 1026 yards receiving. Jackson had 28 extra targets. Ginn caught 60% of targets. Multiply that by his 14.1 yards per catch and you get an extra 236 yards receiving.
Keep all three. I think with the talent all 3 displayed at various times during the season, it's a fair assumption that one of them could develop into a #1 WR. I don't see WR being a huge need for us because we have these 3 guys.
Like I said it's unrealistic that we would get rid of ANY of them. However Ronnie pretty much had a miracle recovery, 99% of players dont recover that well or quickly. Frank Gore and McGahee took 2-3 years after their injuries to get back to their top form.
Ginn, again. You don't even have to touch him and he goes down. I farted once and the wind blew him over.
That's such a myth that people are starting to think it's actually true. The guy runs out of bounds twice and all of a sudden he's a baby.
I don't know. Ronnie went out and we missed him. Camarillo went out and nobody remembered him. Bess took over like he was there all year long.
I didn't have a chance to read all the responses in this thread before I made my first post in here. I had a chance to look back at the entire thread and the Ginn hate is unbelievable. Not even taking into account his increase in production from '07 to '08 but have some of you forgotten that you should not judge a WR in the NFL until after his third year? 345, 716, 838 Those are receiving yards of the first 3 years of a player's career. Guess who? Reggie Wayne. It took him 4 years to break out! And he hasn't been under 1,000 yards since. I bet the Colts are glad they didn't get rid of him. The NFL is full of examples like this of WRs who break out a few years down the road. The symptoms of being able to predict the breakout are consistent improvement from one season to the next. I should also point out that Ted has outperformed Reggie in terms of yardage his first two years. For the speed and potential this guy has, I can't believe so many would even suggest we should get rid of him. I get the fact that Camarillo and Bess are fan favorites and play with heart. And I'm not suggesting getting rid of either of them. But if we had to, either one should go before Ginn, IMHO. But I don't think either has to go. I'm going to go way out on a limb and say Ted Ginn turns into our #1 WR this year beyond the shadow of a doubt. And you know how we like to go back in time and dig up old threads from time to time? I'll bump this one and point and laugh at everyone who voted we should trade him away. All in good sporting fun of course.
I'am not talking about running out of bounds, he gets a finger on him and he goes down. Dieon Sanders could take him down, thats how easy he goes down.
95% of receivers do. He isn't Anquan Boldin. His yards after catch come from seperation not broken tackles.
This is what is good about being a Dolphins fan, we can disagree on things, but were still Dolphins fans.
myth? Just look at the playoff game. IMO, he was directly responsible for 2 of Chad's picks. Twice he went doen before the ball got to him. Watch it when he runs with the ball. Anyone with a feather comes near and down he goes.
Chad was responsible for both of those picks. The first was thrown over his head and the other was thrown to the inside of the field when Ginn was doubled covered on on the outside. He tripped because the corner stepped on the back of his foot. People who are big and tough get tripped too.
Only one of his picks was intended for Ginn (as far as I remember) and the defended stepped on his foot and tripped him. How is that his fault at all? Also the throw was about 10-15 yards back toward the middle of the field anyway. He wasn't catching it.
Ginn. Maybe I am spoiled by the production of Clayton and Duper respective to where they were selected in the draft, but until Ginn can produce like a top 10 player he is just Randall Hill to me. I would hope that if someone offered us a deal ala what we got back in '91 for Hill we'd take it like Coach Shula did.
Go watch the film and we'll see if you say that ever again. Pennington didn't have to throw the ball to Ginn when he was in double and triple coverage. Anyone with a feather comes near him and he goes down? Go watch the 40 yard reverse TD and tell me that he can't break tackles. The guy isn't 6'4, 220 pounds... Don't expect to pretend he is unless you want to see him leave the field on a stretcher.
That is a gamble I'd be willing to take at this point. He is either going to pan out and bite us in the *** like Anthony Carter/Tony Martin did or he will be as I said, Randall Hill #2 and we'll get another top pick for him and the Trifecta will surely get someone that can produce like a top 10 pick can/should (Randall Hill Trade Draft pick = Troy Vincent).
Well as the stats show he will not have the numbers of a top 10 until they start throwing to him at the same rate of those receivers. But that stats also show with what targets he is getting, he is producing as if he were top 10. I showed that if you project out his stat line using the number of targets the "top 10" get he would have over 90 rec. and 1300+ yds. The kid is doing what they want catching the balls thrown to him that can be caught, what more do you want. He has increased his production over last year by a good margin. You brought up Clayton and Duper , well hell look at who they had throwing the rock to them. You put Dan in his young prime years in there throwing the rock to Ginn I am sure he would be in the top 5 conversation. This kid is the real deal if you step back and look at the whole body of his work in comparison to other WRs that are his contemporaries. He is producing at or very close to the same lvl, but he just does not have the tragets thrown to him to have the eye poping numbers.
My whole point is that he simply goes down too easy for whatever excuse you want to give it. He's just not tough enough at this level. bess and camarillo do much better in traffic and not afraid to get whacked once in awhile. PLUS, for all that blazing speed he possesses, he sure doesn't get open all that much either. A big reason why he is not "thrown to" like a #1 WR is.
Well, I remember things differently, but that's not my real point. Got his foot stepped on? Sure perhaps but he gets his foot "stepped on" a lot as he goes to the ground quite easily.
Whatever, I don't have a tape. So his reverse for a TD somehow all of a sudden makes him a bruiser? Com'on, until he shows more toughness, he is not worth his pick. Our #1 WR position netted us 790 yds and our #2 over 1150. 'Nuf said!
I wouldn't look to trade him as he may breakout yet. BUT, if a sweet deal came along [IMO, at least a first or very early second] then I'd have to carefully consider it.
IMO, he would be thrown at more if he was getting open. When he does, he does well, no question, but the problem is that we don't hear his "name called" often enough. he shouldn't have much problem doing it with his speed and that makes me think he's really getting chucked hard at the line and when he does get loose, it's too late sometimes and Chad is looking elsewhere perhaps.
Our #2 and #3 had 1150. Let's not just make things up to make Ginn look bad. It seems that you have a thing for "tough" players, which is fine but jsut because someone isn't a bruiser doesn't mean they can't be good players. Marvin Harrison has never shown an indication that he's tough yet he's a Hall of Famer.
In case you missed my post on the last page, Reggie Wayne only had 716 yards in his second season. Should the Colts have cut him? No, because it was significant improvement from his rookie year. All you guys who are trashing Ginn have not addressed once the fact that he improved significantly from last season to this season. If he goes out in his 3rd season and regresses, then you might have a point. But you have to wait until the 3rd season! It's well known in the NFL that the receiver position is the hardest for a player to transition from college to the pro level.
You're conveniently forgetting the fact that when Camarillo went down, bess took that spot. Til then, bess was limited. So, no, I didn't make things up and never said tha Ginn WAS bad. Only that we could do better for the reasons I already explained.
Are you saying he DIDNT get tripped? Because it was obvious that he did, and that is your point. You used that play against him, if it wasn't his fault doesn't that make your evidence irrelevant?
But we are not discussing reggie Wayne, nor is ted Ginn a Reggie Wayne. Wayne was not the #1 receiver either. But Ginn should have improved from as should ANY 2nd yr player. If you're looking at improvment, look at Camarillo. He was on pace for an 80 catch, 900 yd season himself alone. But again, go back and read my very first post on this. You will find that I said i would not get rid of either but if I had to pick one, it would be Ginn for the reasons I gave. You don't like my reasons? Fine, well, maybe I don't like the ones you gave for who you would trade. Tit for tat!
