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WR question

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by TheAnswer385, Feb 8, 2009.

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Who would you trade away if you had to pick one?

Poll closed Feb 11, 2009.
  1. Ginn

    19 vote(s)
    27.1%
  2. Bess

    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  3. Camarillo

    44 vote(s)
    62.9%
  1. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Wait wait wait. Are you saying he DIDN'T improve? If you are I'm not even going to pursue this arguement anymore.
     
  2. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Bess had 355 yards before Camarillo ever went down. Seems like you're conviently forgetting a few things.
     
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  3. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Did you read what I said? I said that i don't remember it that way. I remember him in traffic, falling down again. He goes down very easy all the time, which is my whole total point. Not whetehr or not he was tripped on this one play and you say. i could care less about one play. i see a pattern with his "vulnerability" and if you don't see that, fine. end of discussion.
     
  4. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Huh? Not quite what I said.
     
  5. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Arrrrrrgh, point is, add the total then, whatever they are. Our #2 WR position outperformed our #1. Pretty simple. I just showed in a post above that Camirillo, had he not gone down would've out performed Ginn on his own. Or at least he was on a pace to. But did any of bess' "previous" yds come while he was in at the #2 spot? just wondering.
     
  6. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    If you want to look at it like that then our #2 had 795 yards and Ginn had 790. That's because our offense wasn't designed to focus in on any one player. Ginn was only 39th in the league in targets. Plus, Pennington was more likely to look to the receiver running the shorter route anyways.
     
  7. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Oh boy......... somewhat more than 795 but who cares. Ginn will not be, or not likely at least, a go to #1 type WR. He just won't be. His main asset is his speed yet he still can't consistently get open. what's so hatd to see about that?
     
  8. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    It was 795. I took out Bess's yards from before Camarillo got hurt. You can't have it both ways.

    And who says he can't get open. He's best skill, speed, is partially negated by Pennington's shortcomings. I hate to use that as an excuse but there are certain types of passes that Chad can't throw which limits Ginn.
     
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  9. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    How many times during a game do you hear the announcers getting all exciting about how Chad has Ginn wide open down the sideline? Hell, Kurt Warner couldn't get the ball to him. These rough and tough NFL CBs are a lot for him to reckon with. Don't ya reckon? Sure, he may learn to neutralize them somewhat but I wouldn't bet on anything much at this point. Now, enough of this crap.
     
  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When you are built like Ted Ginn, your game is elusiveness and speed, not power. For him, we have to realize his limitations and discretion is the better part of valor oftentimes for Ted. It is not in his or our best interests for him to try to butt heads with the Polamalu's and Dawkins' of the NFL world
     
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  11. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    So you're agreeing that Ginn did improve. I think anyway. So if a player improves, why would you not assume he would continue to improve? My thoughts on Ginn are as long as he continues to improve significantly from one season to the next, we should not be worried about him. My point is, production wise he's on pace with a lot of great receivers in this league. And many of them broke out in their third year. So trading him before that would be foolish IMO, but based on what you wrote below (which I'll get to) maybe we agree on that as well?

    Also, no Ted Ginn is not Reggie Wayne. But Reggie is not the only very talented WR in the league that took a few years to develop. And Reggie wasn't the #1 WR on that Colts team. He had to earn it just like Ted Ginn will have to earn it.

    Ok, so we agree we shouldn't get rid of any of them. If we had to, I would say Camarillo. I would hate hate hate to see him go, but the ceiling with Camarillo just isn't as high as Ginn's, IMO.
     
  12. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Sorry I read your post wrong. I thought you said that Ginn should have improved, but were implying that he didn't.
     
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  13. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm not suggesting for him to butt heads with them. It's gonna happen and is. That is probably why we don't see him streaking downfield like the TOs and Moss'. And speaking of Moss', look at Santana Moss. maybe 5'10 but a tad heavier. Still a small receiver by any standards but doesn't have the same problems. The early years were probably similar by the #s but you can just look at one and then the other and see a world of difference. Steve Smith is another....................................... moss and Smith get open consistently and usually stay up.
     
  14. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Maybe it worded poorly. It was meant more like, "of course he did [improve] and should have. i'll take the knock for that as it could have been expressed better. :knucks:
     
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  15. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    If he keeps improving, and his numbers stay on pace with those types of guys I personally won't care how he looks doing it.

    He will never be a tackle breaker. His yards after catch will always come from seperation on routes, and his route running improved ten fold last season in my opinion. I do expect he will but on some muscle, but I don't expect him to ever break a lot of tackles.
     
  16. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is fine and I've no problem with that. As the thread title goes, I said Ginn and you said cam. No problem but when I gave my reason, I never realized this was a thread for the defense of Ted Ginn. ;)
     
  17. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Oh absolutely and I surely hope he will. I believe that you are right in that he'll never be a tackle breaker and also his YACs do come from separation. But separation has been his problem. Like I said before, I believe the problem is at the LOS. The DBs smack him around too easily and knocks him off his route alot. Even if he gets the ball, the DB is still with him at that point. How many times can you think of has he clearly beat his man downfield by a couple strides? Not syaing it doesn't happen but right now it is the exception rather than the rule. with that said, he either needs to toughen up more off the line or develope some technique to avaid so many chucks. preferably both.
     
  18. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Does it show that or does it show that we may just have 3 pretty darn good WRs that are very young and we really don't need to worry about the position as much as everyone wants to think? One other thing we all have to keep in mind, no one knows just how much the game plan involved Ginn from week to week. I can very well imagine that the staff could put in place certain packages of play based on who we were playing.
     
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  19. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Well that is why I believe he will add more muscle. You can see that he's a good kid who really wants to improve, so I like to believe he will.
     
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  20. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That is why I originally said I wouldn't get rid of either of them. But since the thread "required" one or the other, then I chose Ginn and gave my reasons.
     
  21. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Saying that he gets manhandled at the line is pure crap that people just spew without actually knowing whether it's true or not. I went to the first Patriots game and watched Ginn on every offensive play and not once did they even try to bump him at the line.

    If you have video evidence or saw him getting manhandled thats fine but I highly doubt that you do. Just because he is small doesn't mean he gets roughed up at the line.
     
  22. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I can not disagree with that. An extra 15 lbs could do him wonders.
     
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  23. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    That's what I said too :lol: I think we would be stupid to shop any of the three. My reasoning for Cam is straight forwards, he is having a pretty serious knee surgery. Couple that with the fact that he isnt the most athletic guy to begin with and the fact he needs those knees to make sharp cuts on routes and I think you could have trouble.

    Getting rid of Ginn you lose the only threat to move the ball deep, in my opinion.
     
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  24. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Whatever. Unless you have video evidence to the contrary, then you're just spewing the same crap. I don't know what you see at home on TV but I know what I see from the stands.
     
  25. Ducken

    Ducken Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    Or just not vote at all:tongue2::wink2:
     
  26. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    if Pennington had even an average NFL arm the first throw of the game against buffalo would have been a TD and the pick 6 against the ravens would have either been a long gain,a TD, or an incompletion. those are just 2 examples off the top of my head.
     
  27. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    without Ginn keeping a safety back deep bess and cam wouldn't have been able to get their short receptions over the middle.
     
  28. Tiki

    Tiki New Member

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    Tough question because Wilford probably won't be going anywhere due to cap considerations. I think Bess and Camerillo have proven themselves and we have too much invested in Ginn to trade him away. So London may be the odd man out.
     
  29. Tiki

    Tiki New Member

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    I do think we need a true #1 speedy WR to go along with Ginn. While I see your point that these guys are just developing and should show further improvement other then continuing to work on the line WR is our weakest on the offense.

    If we bring in what I suggest, then perhaps the other WRs, will continue with kick/punt return duties. Five WRs can't be a bad thing, shows a commitment to wanting to improve the pass game.
     
  30. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Hey I am not naming names, but some of those in this thread said the samething about Anthony Alabi among others...just saying...
     
  31. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Thats exactly what I am saying although like I have been saying (did that make any sense?:lol:), if the 1st rounder has a chance at being a top 10 pick then I am all for it and will help him pack.

    A lot of you guys are just defending this thing so outright its like your trying to justify spending a huge wad of money on an HDTV to your wife when you bought her a cheapo anniversary gift 2 days before.
     
  32. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Anthony Alibi was a backup who never did anything. Ted Ginn is an elite talent that obviously made a big improvement this season. We wanted him to improve this year and he did yet people still don't want to wait for him to take another step.
     
  33. Pizza Boy

    Pizza Boy Member

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    Sorry Greg....I picked you.

    Why not just cut our terrible punter instead..:wink2:
     
  34. DeDolfan

    DeDolfan Premium Member Luxury Box

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    But that would have made the thread useless then! ;)
     

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