Apparently Samson to G Wasn't Just an Opinion

I could see it although it depends on how much Satele's size matters to Parcells. Parcells likes sizwe and Satele might be too small to play guard for Parcells. If we draft Steve Justice Satele's days may be numbered as a center

 

Well Adamprez, Mormino played C, if he can step up this would be a natural opportunity for him and it would save us a draft pick.

Or Hadnot could be resigned to play C.

Both of those guys are 310+, and Samson could be the best option at Guard even if he isn't the perfect "planet" size.

 

As long as Satele is a beast at whatever position I don't really care.

 

i dont know why you would want to move him... he played very well at Center and will only get better... why move him if its not needed?

 

Ya'll also realize who is running the show around here now. BP likes no one to feel comfortable - he wants them thinking about whether they will lose their job.

So, coincidentally arguably the best performer on the O-line this year (aside from Carey) gets a notice not to be comfortable at his position. Hmmmmm never heard of that before? Asl Terry Glenn about ho "she" is doing, or Vinatierri about kicking under pressure in practice.

This is what BP and some of you are all out of whack for it. Just remember how many people noticed how well Satele played this year, and yet we plan to replace him with Chucky Okobi..............who the **** is that.? he isn't even gonna start for his next team, but yet he can just force Satele over, sorry not buying it. We were interested in him as a backup. Get the point now.


Just fodder Hadnot was our backup center, maybe it is more telling that we are looking to sure up his alternate role, why is that do you think? He might be gone, especially at the rate he wants.

 

You guys do realize that Okobi is a career backup or platoon center, right? He was benched and then subsequently cut by the Steelers this year, and then caught on with the Cardinals who also subsequently released him.

If the Dolphins were interested, it was likely as a move to add depth. Okobi is not a legitimate NFL center.

Here's some more info on him if you're interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chukky_Okobi

You folks should do a little research before jumping to wild conclusions.

 

I am skeptical this report has anything to it but it makes sense potentially. Satele might be too good a player for center. Moving him to left guard would allow him to help eliminate 3 techniques rather than NTs, and would allow him to pull more

 

Satele's not moving to guard...is easier to find a guard than it is to find a center...we've got our center and he's staying there.

Ozzy rules!!

 

I think Danny said it best. It's much harder to get a center than a guard, so the statement that "Satele might be too good a player for center" makes no sense.

Not trying to be harsh, but center is much more difficult position to fill, with a unique set of required skills.

 

Well, if moving Satale to guard provides room for another young talented lineman to get into the 1st string (Mormino to C?) then I am all for it.

Carey, Satale, and Mormino would be nice 3 out of 5. Find another Guard or RT or LT (depending on Carey) and I would be thrilled with this OL as they gel and play together for years to come.

 

Thank you. We have a rookie who played every snap this year and played well and there's a groundswell to move him to guard??? Are you kidding me?? Scout.com and Paul Zimmerman are out to lunch.

You can have Chuck Okobi. Guards are a dime a dozen, rookies who excel at center from the opening whistle aren't.

 

so much for consistancy on the o-line if they move satele(who by the way was a gaurd for hawaii if im correct). thats been one of our biggest problems on o-line.nobody has played the same position back to back in years except for hadnot whom they moved to gaurd this year. hadnot is doing a fine job. i don't understand why we don't resign him. he will demand a chunk of cash but he is young,durable and knows this offense. i would rather pay hadnot than bringing in a almost over the hill out of the league faneca whom your still gonna have to pay big bucks for only to have to replace him in a year or 2. we still need another gaurd by letting go of hadnot we will need to find 2 starting gaurds. satele is doing just fine at center so lets leave him there.

 

Well reality is that we wont have the same exact 5 in 2008 anyway, so no consistency was guaranteed to begin with. We are still 2 players away (G and T) from having the same 5 play back to back years.

Moving Satele to G, and inserting Mormino to C wouldnt be the worst thing, anymore than moving Carey back to RT if we can acquire a better LT option. But give me a new T (RT or LT) and new G, and then Carey, Satele and Mormino would be together for many many years to come.

 

You sound awfully confident that you are correct about that, considering the active disagreement between actual football people about the relative values of centers vs. guards.

Adam Caplan came out with a report 10 days prior to the note on Okobi that Mueller planned to find a new Center because he thought Satele could be more valuable at Guard.

Now, Miami has continued their interest in Centers like Okobi. You can stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the writing on the wall, if you like, while suggesting that others need to "do your research" before jumping to conclusions, but this constitutes completely valid evidence that the Dolphins may be looking to move Satele to Guard.

 

It was the prior administration that was toying with the idea of moving Satele to guard. And no one ever said he was going to be replaced by Okobi. Like many free agents this time of year Miami just had interest in signing him to see if he could become a player.

 

i would only lke to see satele at g and mormino at c during practices and maybe..maybe a preseason game or if those practices go well if nothing else to get these guys some time at alternate positions as i'm a big fan of cross training in case of injury. but i still say our best bet would be to draft a lt. carey played good enough at lt to leave there and have the rookie lt possibly start off at rt if needed. i hear alot of people say the top lt in the draft might be better suited at rt. but my preference would be movng carey back to rt. pick up a lg in fa or later round draft to compete with mormino, keep satele at c where he played well for a rookie g, keep hadnot..he's versatile,young,and we will have to pay big bucks for a replacement anyway so why not keep him there for added consistancy. that gives us three guys at three positions we won't have to worry about for a good while.

 

yea. i dont think we looked at him as a starter.

he would come here to add depth. something our organization has ignored for years

 

I agree, it does seem that the prior administration was thinking about the possibly of moving Samson to guard...but even though this new administration was still interested in Okobi, I haven't read anywhere that it was for the same purpose of moving Samson to guard. And also, it certainly runs counter to the philosophy of getting bigger.

 

You reference an unconfirmed report relating to a fired GM and another unconfirmed report about a career backup who's been cut by two teams, but I'm the one sticking fingers in my ear?

What football people put the guard position ahead of center? Or better yet, how many Pro Bowl centers do you see shifting to guard? More importantly, are you aware that both the physical and athletic skills sets required for guard and center are completely different? (P.S. Satele's physical and athletic attributes fit the center position better than the guard position, especially according to Parcells' track record).

If you don't recognize that the center position is more difficult to fill, and more valuable than either guard position, then I really don't have anything else to say.

 

Apparently all the GMs, since left guards make more than Centers?

Can you please elaborate on Satele's attributes and specifically how those fit the center position better?

 

Gee, that's interesting, since the second highest paid offensive lineman is a center (Matt Birk) and 2 of the top 10 high-paid offensive linemen are centers while exactly zero of the top 10 are guards.
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=122&order=BaseSalary+desc&loc=interstitialskip

I'm assuming that you got left guard confused with left tackle.

As for Satele's attributes, for starters, he is extremely quick and agile running downfield and is therefore excellent at pulling on running plays. This is a key skill for centers. Furthermore, he is a bit undersized for a guard, especially based on Parcells' penchant for playing extremely large guys at the guard position. Satele's somewhat small physical dimensions make him a perfect candidate for the center position, which is traditionally the smallest position along the offensive line.

Lastly, Satele appears to have the smarts to play the center position, another key attribute that is required.

 

[admin] Please do not bait others members into a reply. Thanks. [/admin]

 

Kind of convenient to sort it that way.

If you sort the list by total cap figure, which includes both base salary and this year's amortized bonus, you get a different picture.

Walter Jones, Willie Anderson, Orlando Pace, Flozell Adams, Al Johnson, Derrick Dockery, Steve Hutchinson, Marvel Smith, Chris Samuels and Jonas Jennings account for the highest salary cap figures in the NFL in 2007 (we can toss out Ryan Pontbriand, he's a long snapper). Of those, you have 7 tackles, 2 guards, 1 center.

Want to go even further?

Chad Clifton, Alan Faneca, Matt Lepsis, Ryan Diem, Olin Kreutz, Shane Olivea, Robert Gallery, Kareem McKenzie, Matt Birk, Brian Waters, Larry Allen, Bryant McKinney, Levi Jones, Jon Tait and William Thomas fill out the rest of the top 25.

That means that, of the top 25 highest paid OLs in the league, 16 are Tackles, 6 are Guards, and 3 are Centers.

But hey, why let a few facts get in the way of a good opinion.

 

Why dont we just keep Samson at center when he was a beast there? Why do we have to shift everyone around and cause problems? our line played excellent the way it was last year, why change it?

 

There's certainly something to be said for that. With his explosion and natural pulling ability, they may just feel he has more ability to add some value as a pulling guard. Many OL coaches like their Center to be more of a vocal guy, and all reports indicate that Satele not only is more of a quiet type, but that Rex Hadnot had to help him on a lot of his line calls this year. Now, you can attribute that to his being a rookie, just as I would...but it doesn't mean the coaches can't POSSIBLY feel that he'd be a better Guard than Center, as some would have you believe.

 

No i was just going off on memory of the run up in guards starting with Hutchinson a few years back and last year with Guards commanding exorbitant prices. I'm not going off of base salary, but total contract and guarantees etc. I don't recall a similar run-up in centers, but I may be mistaken.

I am by no means an expert, but this is exactly what is described when discussing moving him to guard. That this skillset is what would make him valuable as a guard.

I can't disagree with that. He seems a bit on the "smaller" side, not small by any means. I mean, I look at Nick Hardwick in san diego and he looks borderline anorexic.

 

jdang307 - I truly and sincerely appreciate your open-minded responses to my insights. You were able to respond to my direct opposition without getting offended, taking things personal, or holding fast to your own set of opinions.

You're the kind of guy that makes hanging out in these forums worthwhile.

Wish I could say the same things about ckparrothead.

As for the argument for what's more valuable, most NFL personnel directors will concede two things:
a) that finding a franchise center is much more difficult than finding franchise guards
b) that the center position is crucial to the cohesion of the entire line, and so continuity at that position is key. Hence the expression "building from the middle out"

Clearly, salary cap figures suggest that the center position is as important, if not more important than the guard position, but that's not the only measuring stick.

P.S. parrothead, did you stop to think that even when you include base and amortized bonus, the ratio of guards to centers is even, because there are two starting guards on each team and only one center?

 

I thought the Tuna liked big lineman

Satele has the perfect size and athletic ability for C, he must be lacking between the ears

Sparano had a center who couldn't even snap the ball, Samson will look like Jim Langer to him

 

What pro bowl center was moved to guard?


Kevin Mawae, Bruce Matthews..

Who knows Hugo? I had been saying "move Samson to Guard" for quite sometime now, if we can find a different center that can handle the job, does it make sense to move a quality Center to Guard?

For us, "yes" it does IMO, Samson's movement is simply amazing, I've compared him to Mawae since Draft 2007, but at guard, he could be Randall McDaniel....the sky is the limit for SS IMO.

 

I hear ya to a certain extent, but remember that Mawae had most of his Pro Bowl years at center (not sure, but I think you can say the same about Matthews). And again, Parcells like huge guards. Samson simply doesn't fit that mold.

 

I don't know, did you stop to think what happens when you sort by the "Total Salary" and you find that 5 out of the top 10 players are guards (average of $12.6 million), and that only 2 are centers (average of $8.8 million)?

If you average the Total Salaries of the Top 10 Guards, you get $8.3 million. If you average the Total Salaries of the Top 5 Centers, you get $6.8 million.

And I love the irony of talking about my demeanor. It's good that you admire jdang for the manner in which he came into this thread and stated his case. In the future, you might try and emulate him a bit more, because you came into this thread talking like anyone who thinks Satele might be moved to Guard "doesn't have their facts straight" and acting like an issue that is to this day debated among actual football people that know what they are talking about, was a complete non-issue for anyone that knows what they are talking about. I merely returned the attitude in kind.

 

While this thread has been very entertaining the reality of moving Satele to center has little to do with the importance of the position it has to do with his abilities and physic and how they best fit the scheme they are trying to implement. Satele is already pretty small for a center in my opinion but I'm a fan of huge Oline players often the bigger the better. Most teams prefer to have bigger players the closest they are to the outside. I don't know how Satele would be as a pulling guard which is often the role you give to smaller guards on an oline for ground attacks the reality is probably none of us do untill we see him on the field. Also centers are usually better at reading defense as they make the calls on the line and Satele has shown he can handle the job fairly well (how much hadnot helped we will never know).

The way I put the importance on the Oline strongly depends on the type of offence I am running. It also depends if I run a balance offence or if I lean heavy on the run to open up the pass. If I go balance then I put more focus on zone blocking linemen and bigger is better, my reasoning is Size is usually better for pass protection. If I am a run focus offence then I like better technique players preferably great pulling guards size is less important for my guards.

In the end if I ran the dolphins Oline odds are Satele would stay center as I think he currently does not have the ideal size for the guard position in the schemes I run. He however seems to read defences very well and those guys are very hard to find and for that reason would not risk confusing him teaching him many positions... I would prefer he would focus on improving his line calls and technique at center.

 

i think he should stay at center

 

Mawae did switch out to guard when he was a Jet (it's been awhile) due to injuries at G and he played just fine, Samson will fill out as well.

Thing of it is, who would play Center for us?

Mormino? He was considered "soft" last preseason and basically deactivated for the entire season, so it would be interesting if one of our Draftnick types had their Drew Mormino notes handy to see what sort of Center prospect he was coming out as he has basically been redshirted this year and last yr's scouting reports are all "we" really have to go on.

I also "suspect" that there may be one or two huge young centers tucked away on practice squads and IR around the NFL....this situation would be tailor made for a Ireland "find" for us.

 

Question: in your mock draft sig...you have an extra 7th (are you expecting a compensatory pick??)

Drew Mormino

http://centralmichigan.scout.com/a.z?s=340&p=8&c=1&nid=2708833

Scout.com Player Evaluation:
STRENGTHS
Intensity
Power And Strength

AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT
Feet
Flexibility

A lineman with terrific weight room strength, Mormino struggles in anything other than confined quarters. Possesses marginal upside and will have a tough time finding a roster spot.

Pos:
Strong, stout blocker who is best in a small area. Quick into blocks, turns defenders off the ball and seals them from the action. Anchors in pass protection. Always looking for someone to hit.

Neg:
Struggles with the shotgun snap. Lacks flexibility, lumbers about the field and is not effective on the second level.

 

Thanks BDH, if Mormino was supposed to be powerful but slow, he lacked even power as I recall, that is a bad omen for Mr. Mormino..

And "yes" I do think we will land a compensatory pick, I'm being positive here, and IMO Harper may be Daniels replacement and play ST's...

 

Interesting post CanadianFish. I think the key here is two-fold:
1)Where would Samson's skills/physical attributes fit best (center IMO)
2)Unconfirmed reports about possibly pursuing Okobi do not mean that the Dolphins are considering moving Satele

 

Yeah, his positives seem so high, and his negatives take all the air out of the balloon.

Who knows with him, but if.....IF.....IF...he can play CENTER and anchor the middle, I like the youth and addition for a 3 out of 5 being Carey, Satale, and Carey.

 

A pity Finhaven is down BDH, CK watched film last preseason and broke down every lineman we had including Mormino...