No offense taken, bro. I think that if there is one great, overriding detriment to the cause of animal rights today, it is PETA.
I figured that was the reason but I wanted to see if there was something else as well. Yeah, we DO think tiwce about it because of that and anytime we see the whole pigs on a spit in a movie or on the Food Network we cringe a little. It does in fact add a stranger element to eating pork. You know it just comes down to us being ok with the knowledge that some animals will be bred to be assets of the human food chain. Mentally we seperate our pet pigs from that group and were ok with it in the end I guess. Even weirder is that I have close friends in N. California that keep their own cattle for consumption. They actually befriend the animals and take great care in caring for them. In the end though they still have them slaughtered and eat them. They are just able to accept both sides of the coin. I could never eat any animal I had as a pet though. That would be WAY too weird for me.
Absolutely! Their radical and inane views give ammunition to dismiss legitimate concerns for animal care as lunacy.
:shrug: I love meat... I love driving... I love driving while eating meat.... My biggest problem with vegetarians is the same as my problem with some religions... some members insist on pushing it on everyone else... believe in what you want, but dont force others to... thats the beauty of life... we all have the ability to make our own choices... and should be able to do so without consequences...
I think Al Bundy said it best in one episode of Married With Children: "When I come home there better be a dead animal on my plate for dinner" Thats all there is too it. It should be a steak, burger or lamb chop but if its chicken, turkey, roast beef, meatballs, or fish Im not complaining. If I find Tofu its going straight in the garbage. I'll eat the vegetables with it but it better not be the main course. /rant
I used to know a couple who raised one or two cows at a time; they treated the animals well and they grazed on their large property out in the sticks. The they'd call "the guy" - a portable butcher with his own USDA-certified panel truck. He would come out, slaughter the cow humanely (it would never even see the bullet coming) and butcher it for them. They'd have meat for the next 8 months or so. I'll tell you, though - I don't think I could eat pork anymore if I had a little porcine friend. More power to you.
I made a deal with my next door nieghbor.. he got our cow, we got his, that way the beef on our table didn't have a name.
I would like to point out that no one has given anyone on this thread a hard time for eating meat. Notice though, that vegetarians have been mocked and baited by pictures and sayings about eating meat. I'm just trying to point out that this "preaching" that vegetarians are accused of, clearly goes both ways. I never saw this until my wife became a Vegan. I too thought that vegetarians were always pushing, while I openly mocked them. Then when i see my wife not push her choices on anyone, yet still get the ration of crap about not eating meat, similar to some of things on this thread, I realized, we meat eaters are far from innocent in the preaching category.
I completely see what you're saying, because I lived it for a couple of years, myself. Again, I can't explain why the photo affected me more than all the other stuff I've seen, but man, no lie, it hurt like a *****. Like a punch to the gut. The weird thing is, i guess, is that i haven't made the further leap to other meat and don't know if I ever will, but I do know that there is no way in hell I could ever eat my pigs. Makes me wonder if someone can cook up and eat a creature they loved, if it is just societal taboos that keep them from doing that to humans.
O come on. You really think that people showing pictures of ribs and meat and making harmless jokes is the same as "mocking and baiting?" I think your taking that a lot more serious than anyone is intending it to be. I think I can speak for everyone here when I say that the pictures and whatnot were only meant to be an innocent jab. I don't think anyone would be too offended if you were a vegan and started throwing pictures of brussel sprouts around. Seriously, everyone respects other people's choices. Nobody has a problem with any of it unless it becomes preaching to the point of, "If you do this, then you're just wrong."
I think that the point people don't understand is that when someone is vegetarian because of they feel bad for the animals then, it absolutely is baiting. You're mocking something that someone feels strongly enough about that they changed their entire eating habits. They stopped eating meat because the thought of eating dead animals is wrong, it actually hurts them, so mocking that and posting pictures of it, is absolutely baiting them. Now, if they're vegetarian for health reasons, then game on.
Well I guess I really don't understand the point of being a vegetarian for the sake of "feeling bad for an animal" in general. If they feel bad because the animal died, then my response would be that it happens in nature all the time, and often in much more gruesome ways. If you're going to be upset about animals dying, then I would have to say that your argument is more with nature than anything else. And we all know that nature can be cruel. It seems like some vegetarians just seem to think that the only time animals die (or die horrible deaths) is when a human decides that they would like to eat them.
I put that quote not because I am religious, but I have heard a FEW use "god's creatures" or religion to explain/justify why everyone should be vegetarians. That's the minority though IMO. Not everyone imposes their opinions on others. I have multiple friends that are vegetarians, and they have never been judgmental to me. The only thing I do for my friends is find a place that has options available to vegetarians when I eat with them. That is fine. You can eat whatever you want. That is the beauty of having many choices. You can eat all french fries if you want. Just don't impose your choices on me... just like any other anti- group (e.g. anti fast food, anti soda, anti meat, etc etc etc.) I am, however, a Meatatarian. Its a huge commitment.
I work as a chef. What pisses me off about vegos is they go into a regular restaurant and want a vegetarian meal, and gluten free half the time too. Just once I'd like five minutes of quality time with one of these hypochondriacs with my 9" cleaver and explain to them what a PITA their "special needs" mean to the kitchen. I don't go into a vegetarian restaurant and order steak, so what makes veggies think they can waltz into my restaurant and order off-menu stuff without a second thought.
That is a complete oversimplification of the issue. It actually, speaks to your bias on this issue which kinda proves what i was saying. Its not about animals dying. Its about animals dying for human consumption when there are other options. Not to mention, the horrible and torturous conditions that animals live in on factory farming. They see eating cows, pigs, chickens, etc. like most of us see eating a dog. I really encourage you to do a little research on the subject before you just right it off as silly and mock it.
I hope that you find people with any special order equally as annoying then. From diabetics to people with peanut allergies, for example. The point is, your restaurant allows for special instructions, most do, and you knew that going in.
Maybe we're all just not as sensitive then. Animals (and people for that matter) live under horrible conditions and die in terrible ways everyday. It's not like humans making a decision to not eat animals is going to change what constantly happens in nature already. I know what happens in some factory farms and sure it's terrible. But you can't tell me that worse things don't constantly happen in nature. Don't tell me to do a little research and then offer no new facts of your own on the subject. That's part of the problem with some vegans. They have such a strong stance on their issues and then have a pisspoor attempt at explaining why they feel that way and why others should too.
First of all, a particular human issue doesn't negate any animal issue. It doesn't make it less valid. Secondly, I personally don't care if you or anyone else goes vegetarian, I'm not one myself. I suggested it because you made an assumption as to why vegetarians are that way. The assumption was incorrect. Doing a little research on the subject will at least help you understand the other side of it before you pass judgment based on incorrect info. Further, for the record, ALL factory farms have horrible conditions. Saying its just some proves you haven't really looked into the issue (at least not enough to speak on the issue with enough conviction to bold "some" for significance). I agree that most Vegans are foolish in their attempts to explain their position. But i would also agree that most Republicans, Democrats, hunters, homosexuals, Christians, Muslims, Jews, atheists, environmentalists, Blacks, Whites, Sox fans, Yankee fans, etc., are just as foolish in their attempts. Again, take a look back all the posts in this thread, not a single one gives a meat eater grief, yet there are many that give vegetarians one.
Once again, maybe you're just more sensitive. "Giving grief" is really a big reach IMO. And seeing as there were only a few vegans who posted in this thread, are you really suprised that the majority of jabs came from the larger demographic? (people who do eat meat) Posting a picture of a steak or ribs is definitely not as malicious as you make it sound either. You're acting like people are posting slaughterhouse photos of animals being tortured. Don't continue to shoot down statements, label them as assumptions, and do nothing to offer any info of your own. That's like saying, "Nope, I think you're wrong. But I'm not going to tell you why."
Correction, the ONLY jabs came from meat eaters towards vegetarians. Your efforts are impressive, but seriously, why were the pictures posted, if not to antagonize vegetarians? This isn't a food picture thread. This isn't a recipe thread. You tell me, what the intent was then? You don't see them that way because you don't agree with issue. I guarantee you though, if we were on a thread about slavery, and I posted pictures of black people hanging, with a smart *** comment about how that's the right way to treat black people, you'd see that as me baiting and mocking people who were against it. (I'm not comparing eating meat and slavery. I'm comparing topics, and how people might perceive someone else's comments, so don't go there.) And you've done something different how again? Where's your links? Where's your facts and figures? I provided a link to a video, already. If you want, you can go read a book, like "Fast Food Nation", or do a google search. Again I don't care, I've done the research, I know you're wrong when you say "some" factory farms. I did the research on my own, I doubt you've done any at all, which is why you've provided nothing in the way of evidence yourself.
I don't have a problem with vegans and I don't have a problem with people who eat meat. I already stated why I don't understand a lot of vegan's ideas (referencing nature) and asked for any kind of intelligent response or further explanation. lol I love how you've done research and learned so much for yourself but you're unwilling to enlighten the rest of us. That will certainly go a long way in helping others understand vegans. And people wonder why they're so misunderstood, even when they have so many informative people out there spreading knowledge. It's truely a mystery. The point is that others and myself have stated over and over again, that horrible events and cruel ways of dying happen to animals all the time in nature. You say it isn't the same thing. But, the only difference is that in farm factories, we're the animals that are doing the killing. Same result, just a different medium. All you've done is run around and point fingers at people for "baiting and mocking." And then when an intelligent response or question comes along, you just avoid it and basically plead the 5th because you think the information you have is more valuable or knowledgable. It certainly just sounds like you want sympathy for vegans and no questions asked. Good luck with that.
I don't care if someone is a vegetarian, but I do take offense when they tell me how wrong I am for eating meat. And I find it funny when they think they are going to change me, because they can't. Nothing in this world I like better than a steak on the grill. Vegan diets can be unhealthy just as meat (although we need the protein). For one, if your still growing, a vegan diet may be harmful. Strict vegan diets can be potentially deficient for teenagers who burn a lot of calories each day and whose growing bones and bodies still require a full spectrum of nutrients. Also other possible problems can be Osteoporosis, Rickets, Iron-deficiency anemia, Macrocytic anemia and Emaciation or slowed growth. One can find just as many possible problems for being a vegetarian as one can for being a meat eater.
Excellent post. I be extremely nervous as a parent if my child showing strong interest in becoming a vegan.
Veganism takes an incredible amount of work, and most people don't do the proper food combinations, which are so important. And I agree with NJ about proselytizing--it's offensive, whether it's for vegetarianism, hunting or religion or whatever. (One of the reasons I find Tebow a turn-off now.)
Which is exactly why I wouldn't want to have a young child/teenager undertake a responsibility like that. Kids already have enough difficult decisions to make that could screw them up terribly. I definitely wouldn't want my son/daughter taking chances with their development/long term health.
I can't imagine you'd find disagreement with that. I don't know any teen vegans, though I'm sure some claim to be. Some teens go through a "vegetarian" phase which is usually shortly lived.
Sorry bro, you are completely misrepresenting this discussion. I'm not trying to convince you of being anything or thinking in any direction or the other. All I'm trying to point out is that I've heard nothing but complaints from people how vegetarians/vegans preach their lifestyle, and it annoys you, yet, many meat eaters will try to give grief to vegetarians for being vegetarian, whether that person has preached to them or not. It has happened on this thread and happens in life. It is fact. You have not answered my question as to why this stuff was being posted here. You also have not acknowledged that I have, in fact, posted a link that speaks on the issue of factory farms. Instead you say I've provided nothing. Which is horse crap. You've in fact, provided nothing but opinion, without anything to back it up, all the while acting as if you have. Its just silly. Either watch the movie I posted or read the book I suggested or quit accusing me of not backing up what I'm saying.
I think that's the most common scenario. I knew a few girls who were vegans for about a year or 2 in highschool but eventually stopped. I'd be interested to see if Vegan parents plan on keeping their children away from meat.
You likened people in here posting pictures of ribs or a steak to "mock" vegans to you posting pictures of "black people being hung with smartass remarks" in a slavery thread. I really don't think I need to even say anything else. It's obvious who has a bias here after comments like that.
I have friends that are. My wife and have no children, but we've discussed what we'd do. I think it'll be tough, because I'm not a vegetarian but the wife is Vegan. Which means the child would ask how come mom and me eat like this and dad doesn't. But we'd just tell them the truth, I suppose and work through it. When the child turned 18 or moved out on their own they can do and eat whatever they want.
Nice dodge. Great job. Thats a bunch of horescrap and you know it. I explained why i brought that up, and you ignored it, like everything else I said. That's fine, that is your right, it just doesn't mean you are right. I'll assume that was your way of admitting your defeat in this discussion.
lol You said it so stand by it. I don't know why I even continued debating with you after that. Won't make that mistake again. The one who keeps talking the longest wins the debate right? Have at it.
You may as well expose them to both ways of eating because if they get curious and try meat on their own, they can get very ill. When I was vegan, someone who thought she was being cute "tricked me." My husband didn't even tell me (about the food) until months later about it. I was up sick all night, a salmonella-like reaction. I thought I had a virus.
People who have genuine health issues let you know when they book. Hypochondriacs let you know when they get to the front desk. Our menu is available on the internet, and if someone wants to bother to check what's on the menu it takes two fifths of SFA effort to find out what's on it. What annoys me about vegetarians is the simple assumption that they can order off-menu items and that they'll be accomodated. Everybody else with genuine special diet requirements let you know when they book.
Where is this magical restaurant that no one has special instructions unless they're medical ones or vegetarian ones?
This is a subject close to my heart. I haven't eaten meat since 1975. I don't even tell people until they know me well and I absolutely have to.( So here I am as a noob blabbing my business ) It's a personal, private, spiritual decision for me and I don't care what anyone else does. It's always bad to lump a group of people into one category. I'd like to slap those hairy arm pit, Birkenstock wearing , tree hugging fellow tofu lovers myself when they try to impose their lifestyle on someone else. I also don't understand why it riles up the carnivore types? If you came to my house I would happily make you a steak.
Doing up off-menu meals is a complete PITA when the person who is demanding it gives you no prior notice. Vegetarians do this all the time.
Happy plants taste wonderful grilled too or picked fresh off the vine. I wonder how wild animals prefer their humans? Bears, alligators, crocs, hippos, lions, pandas, etc., etc. It's all part of the natural world we live in. Survival of the fittest. Poor little plants won't grow very well without sunlight underneath the shade of the big tree.
