Conificus, if I may ask.... what are your brutal thoughts on my belief that James Casey is possibly the best "wildcat" weapon who can serve us in more than just that formation?
Actually, a colleague and fellow ThePhins.com poster CK has something to say about this subject, only his player is a little different. But I think the thought process is the same. http://www.universaldraft.com/3_16_2009_CK_s_Blog.php
Are you sure you studied hypnosis. I'm not an MC Hammer fan!! LOL. Hey!! My help smilie didn't work. What gives?
I liked the Wake signing but I am always skeptical of "workout warrior" types; see: Allen, Jason for reference. Do I think he will be good? Ya, I certainly hope so, but Im not quite sure he will be as good as some think. Im reserving my opinion til he actually gets on an NFL field. Nice write up though!
Great article! I'm impressed!! My gut was telling me that Pat is too small for our wildcat dimension, but Chris really nailed home the "why's". I'm a huge fan of Casey and the fact that he already possesses some of the TE skillset, but if Miller is there in the later rounds allowing us to still draft a top talent in the 3rd.... then we really "can have our cake and eat it, too".
When we first signed Wake, a CFL fan (could have been Unifiedtheory) mentioned that in the CFL everything is bare bones, there is not the resources for development that exist in the NFL. And playing off of Olineman simply meant his speed/power combination hitting a CFL olineman was just an overmatch. I'd bet he had a awesome 10yd split and used that to good effect in the CFL, 260pds running into a 280/290pd CFL tackle and it was no contest. He could have some moves, but it's possible that he never needed to use them very much in the CFL? That is optimistic on my part, but those moves are not THAT hard to learn. 10,000 repetitions to ingrain a movement into muscle memory, which really is not that many, but how in the world could Wake see 10,000 snaps to build it? Ditto here, we will know soon enough though, all we can do at the moment is speculate until Wake makes it to the field.
Thanks for the cheers. It's never to early to enjoy a brew. LOL. I actually don't know if I would put Wake into that stereotypical "workout Warrior" class. IMO he only became a workout worrior to elevate his game as part of his re-dedication, b/c being physically weak was one of his set backs out of PSU. So in Wake's case, I'd actually say that being a workout worrior has become a huge plus to his game. Just like Connor Barwin.... if he becomes a workout warrior on top of his drive (to give him the extra needed weight and strength), I think he'll become unstoppable.
Well that's the thing isn't it. Then will the new stuff come out when his *** on the line so to speak in a game, or will he go back to the way he did it before. Thats why i said 2 off seasons, then it may be possible to get the work in for that and everything else.
I guess that's all we can do with anyone entering the NFL, regardless of who they are. I just have very high/optimistic hopes for Wake. They all have a battle to fight to make it in the league, but something tells me we are going to get our money's worth from Cam. 10,000 reps......does a blocking dummy count for that? LOL.
If he learns his new reportoire in stages (few moves at a time), will it be easier for him to apply them during crunch time? That would probably keep his brain from going into sensory overload, wouldn't it....allowing him to still play off his natural instincts which is better than trying to learn too much too soon and getting confused?
There is contradiction in the argument you make. How do you determine who falls in to the workout warrior class? Doesn't everyone become a "workout warrior" to elevate their game and to elevate their stock? Wake had solid measureables coming out of PSU yet he couldn't even get on the field in Giants training camp a few years ago. I hope youre right about Wake but he wouldn't prevent me from drafting a Larry English or a Michael Johnson at that OLB opposite Porter. Our second leading pass rusher was Roth last year with 5.5 and the support for Porter in the pass rush was inconsistent at best.
Well, you are probably right Conu, to me if we have outstanding DE play though, it will make Wake more productive then he probably would be on a different team. I think he will have to shelf the spin move though, one spin out of a play and the Staff will "suggest" that he should pay more attention to his gap responsibilities... Of all the players we have acquired so far, Wake should be the most interesting one to watch in the preseason, they will certainly attempt to instruct him on different moves and in the preseason we will see what he's got, if they set in, he could be a gem. He played Special Teams in the CFL, so at the very least he will have a chance to contribute on our Special Teams squad, I like Erik Walden, but he will have a heck of battle on his hands to beat Wake out for a roster spot and playing time.
Spot on Boik, the Staff is trying to populate our roster with 250pd plus OLB/DE types who run sub 4.8's, they want a fleet of them like the Steelers have hoping that one will step up to fill Porter's sort of Role on the SOLB position. What makes Wake ahead of the curve was he already has experience playing dline in the CFL, on a passing down he could put his hand down and head upfield and still have a prayer of holding at the point of attack.
In all fairness against my argument for Wake....I would be pretty ignorant and hypocritical to say that he will be a star before he even has a chance to show that he can be a star. I would like to extend a friendly bet of one beer that Wake will be DROY. If I lose, I buy the ENTIRE forum 1 beer........ to share. If I win, then entire forum each buys me a beer! I plan on dying from alcoholism. LOL.
I agree totally. Bring in a rookie to help push Wake... and Wake to help push a rookie because we'll eventually need both after Joey leaves or retires. When Wake came out of PSU he was an athletic freak, but he wasn't a workout warrior. He was thin and weak. 20 reps on the bench I believe. Great question though about how to decifer between their motives. If I see a person has a true heart for the game and desire to be the best he can be, then I see a workout warrior as a potential benefit.... especially if the player is one who needs to become stronger/bigger. However if a player is a workout warrior first and foremost,.... and that's how he defines himself (Gholston), then he's a potential bust in my book. I can see a difference between a player who puts the time in the gym to be a better player VERSES a player who puts the time in the gym b/c he thinks being a beast with natural talent will get him by.
I love this forum.... comprised of many intellligent people who can all bring great and different, valuable viewpoints to the table. My previous Forum only had a few of you guys, but mostly people who seemed like they just began watching football. LOL.
I am incredibly optimistic about Wake. I don't get the workout warrior comparisons b/c this is a guy who was very productive as well. The term workout warrior usually refers to a guy who wasn't productive but excelled at the workout. I do agree that he is raw particularly when it comes to his hand placement and use. I haven't seem many examples of him setting the edge and then shedding the block. However, I do believe he will be successful for a few reasons. First, every account about him by his coaches and team mates raves about his drive and his humble demeanor. In his interviews you see a guy who is willing to sacrifice to achieve his goals. This is a guy who has no TV or computer in his home b/c it would distract him from his goal. He doesn't seem to go out or party. He seems singularly driven. Everything about him says coachable. And I wouldn't criticize him for not having learned better technique thus far. The impression I get is that he took in everything his coaches taught him but that the coaching in the CFL is not on the same level as the NFL. It seems unreasonable to wonder why an unknown player (in the US) didn't find NFL coaches or players to teach him NFL techniques while he was playing and excelling in the CFL. Another reason I'm optimistic is that I watched some of a CFL game a few months ago that Wake played in. I found it on the net. The video was crappy and I had no sound but what I did see was a player who adapted to his opponent. The tackle he was going against kept using a cut technique on the few run plays that went his way. The first two times Wake got washed out. The third time Wake feinted like he was going to do the same thing but instead jumped inside and stuffed the runner. Now that's only one example but it showed me a player who was learning quickly. I also heard from a CFL fan who is familiar with Wake that he was known as a smart, strategic player. That he tended to set up his opponents over several plays. Third, I don't really think it takes that long to learn pass rush moves. Many young LBs come into the league and are effective as pass rushers right away. It takes them longer to become complete players, but pass rushing has one of the easier learning curves. Now I don't rate him as a top 10 pick, but I would have had him in the first round. IMO Wake is very comparable to Larry English. I expect that Wake will have an immediate impact (by his third game assuming an injury free off-season) as a third down pass rusher. It will take him a bit longer to become an every down LB but I don't think it will take him long to reach Porter's run stopping level. (I don't think Porter is particularly good against the run). My guess is that he'll be a suitable bookend or replacement for Porter by the end of two years at the latest. So IMO Wake's likelihood of success is very high. I think it's at least as high as any player we're likely to get in round 1 this year. And do to the level of dedication that he has shown over the past two seasons (more than almost any college player I've ever heard of) it's probably a bit higher.
20 reps isn't so bad for an LB or undersized DE, especially one with long arms. The bigger problem with Wake was Im not sure he ever had a position at the pro level or a coach who really knew how to use him. I do think this staff will figure out how to make the most of his substantial talent which means he should become a pretty good player. I am encouraged that he went out and got 20 sacks in a CFL season. The rules being what they are there makes accomplishing such a feat arguably more difficult. The talent is less but lining up a yard off the ball allows the OL to get their feet set against faster players like Wake and he still blew them away However, the workout warrior type is one I will never trust. Do it on an NFL field and I shall believe.
2 great points, Boik. I almost forgot about the length of arms. Barwin is in the same boat with his long arms and 21 reps. I have to remind myself that for these guys, their explosion comes from their lower body and ability to use their entire body's strength simultaneously.
I'd ask if you were him.... but if I asked him who his favorite football player of all time is, he'd tell me Pele'. By the way, thanks for elaborating on Wake more.
I am very excited about Wake, he has a lot of potential. Maybe it is raw potential, but it is potential. Best thing is he didn't cost us a draft pick or a trade. If he excells, its like having another first round pick this year. He excelled in college and he adapted and excelled in the CFL. Who's to say he wont excell at the next level. We certainly have the coaches in place to make him the best he can be. Kind of reminds me of all the Jake Long doubters last year. He isn't worthy of the first pick, hes not an NFL Left Tackle, hes better suited to be a guard or a right tackle. Or how about, we need to keep Vernon Carey at Left Tackle and put Long on the right side. Looks like some people were wrong on their assessment of Jake Long. I am not saying anyone is wrong in their assessments of Wake, I am just hoping they are wrong because it is to the Dolphin's advantage and would put a smile on all of our faces.
Great point about Jake Long last year, there were several people who held the view that he couldn't play LT in the NFL and he made the Pro Bowl his first year. The interesting thing about Wake is his versitility, he can play up or down, and on Special Teams, that would make his outright "bust" factor low if he remains healthy this year. To be sure, everyone would be happy if Cameron Wake excels this year.
Guys like you always amaze me And I mean that in a very complimentary manner. To put this my effort, time and study that must go into doing such an in depth analysts is really amazing and greatly appreciated. I don't watch college football and I don't even pretend to be any kind of a draft guru. Love watching the draft, but as far how it all comes together, don't have the inclination to do that. To me the draft is more art and gut feeling then it is a science, while I do appreciate the scientific aspect of pulling together all the numbers and break downs. Great insight and Thank you!! Now I just hope you are right!
Much appreciated Tiki. Wake was really an unknown in the offseason draft world where many of us have half of our fun, so I wanted to spend a little time to make up something fun for all of us Phins fans to enjoy. I tried making something that I would have liked reading if someone else posted it.... and it makes for a good debate, which is always mentally stimulating. LOL. God knows I've done my fair share of reading other's viewpoints to get an understanding of a player, team, etc.
A fun threat to bump, have to give TP credit, I "was" a Wake homer (there is a thread!) but TP called Cam Wake making the pro bowl in 2009..good job Toddsphin!
Thanks Aqua...... beer toast to you too buddy!! There's more to the game than just the physical, athletic football side of it, and IMO it goes unnoticed too often when assessing a player's potential. TBH, Wake screamed that he was gonna be a star and there was no one stopping him. At least that's how I saw him. My convictions were pretty strong on this guy from day one and I certainly wouldn't have minded eating my share of crow if I had been proved wrong.
There is no metric for "insanely driven beyond all point of going back" TP 11 Cam Wakes would rule the world..
Good call Aqua.... especially since we need all the help we can get on defensive turnovers. Hopefully Nolan notices this, too, and we see Wake with an Umenyiora type season. That would be AWESOME to seem him have an elite type season like that. I don't see why he can't do it. It's not like he doesn't have the strength for it. I would have to guess that the game is now finally starting to slow down enough to where he can actively concentrate on that aspect, no?
Holy crap, I couldn't imagine having a team full of 22 Cam Wake type dedicated guys. There'd be no stopping us. F the Patriots!!!
That is what is needed Bro, Cam is far far beyond "driven". TBF to Conu, he did mention that two offseasons were required before Wake became proficient.
Too many people were ready to jump the gun and make the entire 2010 draft about defense and pass rushers. I honestly felt Wake was like getting a Top 10 draft pick for free, so I really didn't see the despair..... not to mention our defense was so young and still developing that I felt they just needed a year or 2 to mature before we'd throw an entire draft at improving them. But no, even our own regime jumped the gun, and now our offense is suffering for it. And I still like Moses a lot. He's slowly emerging as potential starting material.
Have to admit, the current Dolphins staff can spot Lb talent, and who is showing signs and who is not showing signs
