Boldin may be an indication of intention

Boldin is my favorite wide receiver in the league but I couldn't justify trading multiple draft picks for him and for a guy whose had injury issues. Further, he wants a new deal and personally, I'm not crazy about paying wide receivers big time money. Your thoughts?

 

there have been a bazillion threads on this

 

We need a right guard more than we need a wide receiver now that Donald Thomas is injured again. We can't be a running team with any of the castoffs we were playing at guard last year.

 

On the other hand, not trading for Boldin is by no means an indication that we're not yet ready to take that next step.
Personally, if he could be had for a reasonable amount I would love it. Unfortunately everything I have read is saying that the Cards want multiple picks for him. So to me the only thing at this point trading multiple picks would indicate is that we're ready to sacrifice the future for the present.

 

Bingo!

Hit the nail right on the head!

 

We need a DE who can passrush more then we need A Boldin, our problems are on defense much more then on offense.

 

Beyond the shadow of a doubt, WR is our weakest position. Ginn, Cammy, London, Turner, Bess and Hartline are good prospects but certainly all 'unproven'. Ginn came on last year and had his best. Cammy has to come back from the ACL. London and Bess still have things to prove and Bess is not an everydown WR. Hartline and Turner, while again promising, are yet unproven. I wouldn't rule anything out as far as a trade goes until we get into TC. Of course, that would mean that they don't have confidence in the group to perform. The wildcard is White. What are the plans for him ?? Sure, he's listed as a QB, but if he's listed as #2, it's strictly to be able to use him in the WC and/or as a WR, not as a QB... Still, a trade is not out of the question, but at this point, IMO, unlikely...

 

Right now we need a RG more than a wide receiver.

 

Depth? In what form? Warm bodies?

Berger has never started an NFL game in his career. Frye didn't standout last year after being picked up from the Texans practice squad. Murphy was far from NFL ready last year and the coaching staff has already addressed him this offseason as still not being ready. Quinn and Lewis are undrafted longshots to make the team, let alone make an impact. Add to that, Alleman who was horrible last year and Ndukwe who again wasn't anything special.

Quality depth is much more important, it's something that we ignored this offseason and if Thomas is out for any extended period of time, we'll be starting a marginal player in his place, just like the disaster last year. If Smiley isn't 100% we're in big trouble. Keep in mind that Thomas is still unproven at this point, the hype surrounding him came from vets during camp last year that commented on his strength, but strength doesn't necessarily equal production.

We had Satele and traded him away and did nothing to really fill that backup spot with quality players. When you factor in the health of the starting interior and the lack of quality depth, we're really not one player (Boldin) away from a SB run, we'll be lucky to make the playoffs with tougher AFCE opponents and harder schedule.

Our OL is going to make or break the season and so far it doesn't look promising.

 

While I agree that the passrush is in need of some help, the current state of the OL is more troubling IMO.

 

I think we're going to be good on pass rush this year, padre. I really do. With the additional pass rush expected with our OLB I can see Langford, McDaniel or someone being able to get into the backfield a bit more.
With that said, I still agree it's a bigger priority than an Anquan Boldin. I'm guessing the staff is expecting big things out of the guys we already have.
Still..RG is my biggest concern at this point.

 

I'd agree, if it weren't so early in the preseason process, we have months to pick a replacement, and that's "if' Thomas is going to miss any games.

I see this as an opportunity L2G, we have 7 guys who can play RG, we will keep three or four of them, let's see what we have on the roster.

 

I've got to believe they haven't yet given up on Murphy, too.

 

Exactly, if we look at Murphy, Quinn, Alleman, these guys were highly thought of heading into the draft or when they were recruited for College, throw in maybe Gardner and we've got a couple of guys with some potential.

I'd still have preffered taking Herm Johnson in the 5th, but that is just me, and what's done is done.

 

Regardless with how many months away we are from the start of the season, the medical history's on the interior OL aren't promising, that's alot of missed time over the past few years. Like I pointed out before, crossing your fingers and hoping that a starting quality G is released or made available via trade is extremely risky or foolish or however you choose to define it. If you have a spot on the roster that you know has a history of injury concerns, especially when it 3 spots in a row on the line, you don't leave that up to chance. They counted on Thomas being healthy and he has already had a setback.

You don't play russian roulette with the most important part of the OL.

Opportunity is fine when you have one spot open for competition, not 3 spots that are questionmarks due to injury concerns. Again I can't stress enough how important the OL is to our success, it's the backbone of any offense, everything starts with the OL. Leaving that up to career backups and UDFA's is poor planning and how you end up with a revolving door of mediocrity (see RG last year).

 

I was expecting a lot more than a random comment about needing a WR when I clicked on this thread.

 

See now that's on you, brother.....
Look - lower your expectations and you won't be disappointed so much.
with that said...
OT Damn gish 31 seconds to go and then.....you'd think James was Tom Brady's sister or something.
OK back on topic.
Hey we'll be okay without Boldin

 

It's an imperfect world L2G.

And we are still in shorts and in minicamp, no need to pullout the strained metaphors just yet, someone can emerge even this early.

And last year, it just seemed like we had more information on how the players were doing.

Thomas went down in Game 1, we still made the playoffs, D Thomas was a 6th round pick, almost a UDFA, if they can spot a D Thomas, they can spot a guy just as good when it's this early.

Have some confidence L2G, it's 120 days until the season starts, with two a days and an ongoing minicamp, we aren't flying blind here.

I'm starting to like Quinn a bit, and maybe Alleman, but I'd bet we go with Ndukwe if the season started tomorrow.

Hey...Rex Hadnot is still available...

 

ok, im lost.

 

Which part?
The lower your expectations part was referring to you indicating you were disappointed that the start of the thread had little substance.
The OT part was just referring to the Magic - Cavs game 2 I thought for sure the Magic were going up 2-0 until that lucky 3 with 1 sec left
The last part was just to keep things honest by commenting within the thread subject.

 

Which is made more difficult with poor planning.

Again, the timing of this injury has nothing to do with the fact that the interior 3 are pretty big injury concerns and we neglected to find quality backups. With players like Smiley, Grove and Thomas you go into the season expecting one of them to go down and have a competent backup already in place. Expecting them to stay healthy and then scouring the waiver wire and camp cuts is poor planning. The foresight was lacking IMO.

That's wishful thinking, infact I would say that is overly optimistic thinking. Finding talent in the later rounds isn't a science, there is alot of luck involved as well. Expecting a 6th rounder to step in and contribute like a starter is silly.

Maybe not blind, but extremely reckless.

I'm not throwing in the towel on the season because of the Thomas injury, I'm just pointing out the obvious when it comes to planning and spending money and draft picks wisely. Investing alot of money in injury prone OL (60% of the starting OL) is careless. The season is going to ride on the health of the OL and we aren't off to a very good start.

Nah, we should have signed Brown to give the OL stability and a great runblocker.

 

They may stay healthy as well, one can make that case as long as anyone of them is still on the Dolphins, that doesn't make it anything more then what it is.

And yet...it happens every year in the NFL.

An appeal to an emotional argument L2G? You can't call it reckless because it has not cost us anything as of yet, your speculation does not equal to a lack of performance out on the field.

You'll just have to wait until September and then say that L2G.

Careless in your view that is, they took us from 1-15 to 11-5, they appear to know what they are doing....

That porker?

Seriously though, pointing to past injury history on the Oline, then ignoring Ronnie Brown's injury history seems to be a poor way to make a point.

 

One would have a hard time making that case, but I'm sure they would clean up if Vegas was taking odds and they did mange to stay healthy.

For a guy that came to Miami talking about how he wasn't interested in players who are injury concerns and who gave the example of joining the Jets who had a stack of medical reports a foot thick, Parcells hasn't exactly stuck to his guns on this one.

The success/failure rate is not encouraging, especially for the same team to do it twice, the odds are very long.

Not at all, Thomas is already down and Smiley has already had to have surgery on his shoulder 2 separate times. Not having a quality backup in place at draft time is reckless, and we're seeing that now. If Thomas' injury is more serious as Armando's article implied, then we are in the same position that we were last season with a revolving door of mediocre players.

Analogy time:

If you were to go deep into the woods knowing that it was getting dark and the storm clouds were swirling, if you didn't bring supplies to build a shelter or maintain during the night, would that be wise planning or reckless planning?

Not planning ahead when all signs tell you that there might be a problem is reckless. Crossing your fingers and hoping that things work out even though past history tells you that planning ahead might be a wise idea is reckless.

They also invested in Wilford, McCown, J. Thomas, Murphy, etc. Not all of their moves pan out. The "they know what they're doing" or "They are the ones getting paid" arguments are ways for fans to make themselves feel better when things go wrong. Those same things were said when Saban was here, when Wanny was here, and when Cam was here. We want to believe that the FO is infallible, but they aren't, they are prone to making blunders just like any other FO.

The team that went 1-15 was better than that, injuries and poor gameplanning played a major role in that horrible season. Last year we were healthy and had a few players put up career numbers, we benefited from a gimmick play and had a fairly easy schedule. Last years team wasn't as good as they appeared IMO.

Not really, Ronnie suffered flukish injuries and we have a competent backup in Ricky. If we were talking about Ronnie and Cobbs was the next best RB on the roster I would be cautioning about lack of depth there as well. But Ronnie doesn't have the type of injury history of Jake Grove and he hasn't missed the amount of time that Grove has. Now if Ronnie were to suffer another injury that kept him out for significant time, then I would have to reevalute and probably label him as injury prone (depending on how he suffered the injury), but until that happens I stand by my position.

 

And only D Thomas was on the IR for an extended period of time last season, with Cam there were over 10 players on IR.

Or they are very good at picking up gems as UDFA's and late round picks? They did have that knack in Dallas, and Jerruh is still reaping the rewards.

No, Thomas is not down, that is an assumption, and Smiley has recovered from his broken leg and it's not unusual for an Olineman to have multiple procedures, iirc Mark Schlereth had 20 operations in his career.

As for the mediocre players, it remains to be seen, we certainly have the horses on defense to put these guys through the test when the pads come on, if they all wash out, SirVincent,Lewis, Murphy, Quinn, Frye, Berger, Alleman, then we make a move for a unhappy veteran.

Shoot, Ready, Aim seems a backwards way of doing things, we've got a host of young players who've played Guard, let's see what we have first.

I have sufficient skill to manage that situation comfortably, starting a fire with rocks, finding shelter at night, etc etc BTDT.

Now it could be said if I had brought a pack filled with items like a tarp and a flashlight and what have you, the stay in the woods would be more comfortable, but comfort is a relative term.

Moves like bringing in Akin A, Fasano, Fergie, Nate Jones all worked out and worked well for us, it's not the failures that count in the NFL, it's the successes that help a team win that matter.

And the jury is out on Murphy, it will be interesting to see how he handles Training Camp pt II.

A wise old fish said "you are what your record says you are".

Of all the pernicious lines of thought that used to plague Phinfans the "we lose close games" ones used to drive me up the wall, we disproved that theory last season, I hope it dies the ignoble death it deserves this season as well.

Ronnie has missed more games then Grove has...

 

That's fine, but both Smiley and Grove missed 6 games last year, that isn't something to overlook. That's 3 players on our OL who missed significant time last year.

Then why don't they do it every year?

Or is it a crapshoot (more of a crapshoot) in the later rounds?

The Dolphins are hoping that he'll make it back for the start of the season, between now and then he is down and out. We all witnessed what a lack of proper preparation did to Jason Peters in Buffalo, he was playing catch up all year, literally. Thomas is going to miss out on precious prep time and it may very well impact how he plays out on the field.

And yes lineman (football players in general) have alot of medical procedures done, but when the player in question suffered a serious leg injury and a shoulder injury that required 2 surgeries, don't you think that it would be wise to find a quality backup in the event that he isn't ready to go or he has a setback?

If one is available. And lets not forget that they don't just hand them out like breath mints, trading for a player will cost a pick.

And "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" is not a very good way of dealing with players who have injury concerns.

If you could runblock as well as you dodge a question, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now.

The point being, and I'm sure you already "got it", is that preparation is what separates winners from teams that are always in the middle of the pack because they suffered an injury.

Well the impression that Sparano gave is that he still needs alot of work with recognition, and we all know that he needs to get stronger. Hopefully he can get up to speed, but I don't think he'll be much of a factor this year.

And the failures of a FO matter just as much. We all suffered through the Wanny era long enough to know that. FO's aren't just graded on their succeses, they are equally responsible for their blunders as well.

Reality isn't something to run away from though, if there is a legit criticism it shouldn't be looked at as pessimism.

You must be tired

Umm...that's just flat out wrong brother, Ronnie missed a total of 12 games throughout his career, Grove has missed 26 out of a possible 80 games. Nice try though, go get some rest.

 

Boldin threads always take a wrong left turn.

Anyways go back and read my comments to this thread.

http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=31795

Post there instead.

Tangents are bothersome and pointless. Debate elsewhere please.

 

how about trading Ginn, London and a pick for Boldin ... Ginn would go well in AZ with F & B ... its a good trade

not worried about the line just yet ... we've all discussed the Grove, Smiley, Thomas injury questions -- i felt the most confident in Grove ... i think we can 'plug' the hole of 1 guard, but we can't afford both going down.

 

I don't have enough time in the day(or night) to type with you,Mike.
I will just call you "Multi quote master" from now on.

All I will say real quick is,we are not getting Boldin at all.Why anyone would post this again,I can't explain.
The only way we would reach the Superbowl with the Wr's we have is if Ginn all of a sudden becomes the next Desmond Howard..That AINT happening this year anyway.

 

Thanks bro, hope all is well with you and yours.