I personally don't think either guy is a top 50 player but I guess you could make a case for McCann, considering his position. Heck I think Delgado is a border line top 10 1st basemen in the league and he'd probably be #10.
Hanley has hit leadoff every year before now. RBI arguement = invalid. To get RBI's someone has to get on base. The guys hitting ahead of Hanley this season are hitting below 270. Also if you take out his first season where he only hit .292 his stats that you listed become better than Wright.
Delgado's homers come in bunches but as a hitter he's pretty consistent. He slumped the start of last year but I attribute that to a couple of factors; one pertaining to the fact that it was quite apparent he didn't really like playing for Willie Randolph based on his comments and two that he had offseason wrist surgery last year and never had a spring training. The first reason on that list may make him a bit of a diva but hes not inconsistent. Defensively hes no gem but hes not bad either. Hes not on the team for his defense though; hes there to go for 38 and 115 like last year. When he doesn't try and pull everything he is a tremendous presence in the lineup. I didn't discount Wright's first year why would I discount Hanley's? Everything is on an equal level. So you mean to tell me that as a leadoff its not important that Hanley doesnt have a higher OBP then Wright? Im not penalizing Wright because of where he hits in his lineup comparative to Ramirez. Ramirez scores more runs and steals more bases, those are facts. Wright has a higher OBP, more RBI's and plays better defense. Those are also facts. Why it's like that is irrelevant to me. Like I said, you can make a case either way. I love what Wright brings to a team and if I had hanley on the Mets Im sure I'd love to have him around as well. He is a great player no question bro.
Because not every player gets it immediately or at the same time, it's all abou the player you become. That's called ignoring other facts in favor of the ones you like.
Regarding Wrights first year was even further below his career stats then Hanley's 1st season at 293/333/852ops. If I did as you suggested Wright's lead would widen not decrease.
It's not a knock on Delgado, but we're talking about the top 50 players in baseball here. And Delgado at this stage of his career isn't one of them.
How so? There weren't 50 other players who went for 38 and 115 last year. Aside from which the article doesnt mention how they based their ratings. I believe age to be a factor but Delgado is still playing at a very high level. He
Well the way I see it is he's in my opinion he's probably the 10th best 1st basemen in baseball. He plays bad defense, can't run and is old. So just factoring in that there are at least 9 guys who should be in the top 50 over him already. Then when you factor in better players at other positions and also the pitchers, he doesn't make the cut. I just don't think he's in the top 50 at this point of his career. I mean here's one example: where's Adrian Gonzalez? He's better than Delgado and has been for the past 2 to 3 years. He should be on the list before Delgado. Where's Prince Fielder too?
Prince Fiedler is a less clutch, worse fielding 1B then Delgado. Gonzalez you have a legit argument with I think. I overlooked him as well; you kind of forget about him in SD a bit. Id love to know who those other 8 you have ahead of Delgado are though. Delgado had a handful of walkoff hits/homers last year and was the biggest presence in the Mets lineup last year from the time Willie was fired to the end of the year. Yeah, even more then Wright, Reyes, and Beltran last year. He carried the offense and he isn't as bad a fielder as one would believe. He doesnt have great range but he fields the position ok and makes the scoops that Wright and Reyes leave him making. By my count you have Tex, Cabrera, Pujols, Howard, probably Youkilis, A-Gonzo, Morneau as 1B better then Delgado and I could make a legit argument he's as good as 2 of those. The only 1 of those omitted from the top 50 is Gonzalez and you could throw him in there instead of Oswalt or Zambrano just as easily. And again, TSN never gave criteria for their ranking. Is it based on current careers or future predictions? They dont give a weighting of accomplishments and how they view each player so its really a pretty bad job.
In no real order: 1. Pujols 2. Cabrera 3. Howard 4. Teixeira 5. Berkman 6. Youkilis 7. Morneau 8. Gonzalez 9. Fielder EDIT- Carlos Pena I totally forgot about Pena who although doesn't hit for a high average by any means, has a ton of power, gets on base and plays gold glove defense. You could make the arguement he's better than Delgado, but I'm not sure but it's close. Your arguement for Fielder being less clutch is poor, why would that matter (unless to justify Jeter's spot at #8 but then the list is a failure because where's David Eckstein or the hitter formerly known as David Ortiz)? Arod and Teixeira aren't exactly known for their clutchness yet they're still there and very high on the list (I mean Teixeira ranked higher than Miguel Cabrera? But I guess that's a different arguement for a different day), whether it's true or not. Either way there's either 8 or 9 1st baseman alone that are better than Delgado. You could possibly make an arguement for Fielder, even though I still think Prince is the better player, but there's no way Delgado is better than the other 8 guys listed. Yes I know Delgado had a great year last year but he's still only the 5th most valuble player on that team (Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana). If I were making these rankings I'd make it more for future value but also add in a little bit what the guys have done in the past. So when I say I wouldn't put someone on the list that's way.
Carlos Pena is extremely inconsistent from year to year, there's no way I would take him over Delgado. Berkman is solid but last year was one of the best years of his career and it still didnt differentiate him from a very good year by Delgado's standards. If my first argument about Prince didnt hold enough weight for you try this one: Delgado had more homers, rbi, better OPS, better OBP and more runs last year. How is Fielder better? Even in a career year like 2007, Fielder still isnt the rbi guy delgado is/has been.
Here's my list as it stands today. These are in no real order, but these guys are the upper echelon as far as Im concerned. Position Players 1B - Pujols, Cabrera, Teixiera, Youkilis, Morneau (this position is loaded) 2B - Utley, Pedroia, Kinsler 3B - Chipper, AROD, Wright SS - Ramirez C - Mauer, McCann OF - Dunn, Beltran, Braun, Manny, Quentin, Vlad (when he's healthy) and possibly Grady Sizemore and Alfonso Soriano. (Honorable mention to Jason Bay and Josh Hamilton) P - Santana, Halladay, Greinke, Lincecum, Hernandez (based on pure stuff) Peavy, Sabathia, Carpenter and Hammels (when they're healthy) (Honorable mention to: Beckett, Oswalt, Volquez and Brandon Webb)
Yeah Pena might be inconsistent but in 108 less at bats (he had 490 AB compared to 598 by Delgado) than Delgado he hit 7 less HRs, drove in 13 less men, scored 20 less times, had 24 more walks, K'ed 42 more times, had a lower BA by 24points, had a higher OBP by 24 points, a lower SLG by 24 points and their OPS was the same. If you give Pena those 108 at bats, he would most likely beat out Delgado in each stat plus gold glove defense. Looking at the numbers I'm not so sure Pena isn't just as good or better than Delgado is now. It's closer than you (and even myself) might think. Berkman was a much better player than Delgado was last year and has been since 2006. Check out the overall numbers, as I'm not going to list them. He also steals bases, another plus for Berkman as he's more of a complete player. Berkman is in fact the better player now and moving forward. As for Fielder, I admit his numbers aren't as good as I thought they were, especially compared to Delgado's (minus Carlos' 2007 stats). So I might put Delgado above Fielder, but taking in account Fielder's upside and is still in his prime that might give him the edge. Especially given Delgado's age and health concerns. But again yeah looking at the stats closer, Delgado has been better. So I'll give you that. Again I still don't think Delgado is a top 50 player in baseball. I really don't. Again not a knock on him because he's a good player with a very good career but at this point he's not there. Whether you agree with me or not that's fine.
If I were making a list of the top 50 (in no order because that would just take way too much time) here would be my list: C- Victor Martinez, Joe Mauer, Brian McCann 1B- Youkilis, Teixeira, Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez, Miguel Cabrera, Morneau, Berkman, Howard 2B- Utley, Pedroia, Kinsler 3B- Arod, Longoria, Wright, Chipper Jones SS- Hanley, Reyes, Rollins OF- Sizemore, Hamilton, Beltran, Manny Ramirez, Bay, Crawford, Quentin, Ichiro, Ryan Bruan, Soriano, Carlos Lee, Torii Hunter SP- Halladay, Sabathia, Lee, Grienkie, Johan Santana, Hamel, Zambrano, Oswalt, Peavy, Lincecum, Webb, Haren RP- Papelbon, Rivera, Nathan, Sokia, and K-Rod Honorable mentions to: Brian Roberts, Derek Jeter, BJ Upton, Vernon Wells, Nick Markakis, Curtis Granderson, Chris Carpenter, Josh Beckett, John Lackey, Josh Johnson, Verlander, Gallardo, Billingsley, Wainwright, Felxi Hernandez and Brad Lidge
Good list but Webb has to be on there imo. Hes one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball and is just entering his prime. Hes right there with Sabathia and Johan as far as durability (except this year) wins, era (behind johan, usually ahead of CC), k's hes usually a bit behind....Dude is a hoss. And no Studgoria? Hes on the same level as Wright or damn close. Berkman's a beast, I think that argument is more valid then Prince or Pena. Pena's a good defender who gets home runs. Delgado's a great hitter who is average on defense and has shown a flair for the big moments. My preference is Delgado.
Good list. I do have a problem with Quentin, and Cliff Lee. I'd would throw Billingsley and Markakis in over them.
I actually had both Markakis and Billingsley in my final 55. I'm a huge fan of Markakis. And he was actually my last cut. I do like Markakis more than Quentin, but Quentin just had a huge year last year and think he could put up some big numbers in Chicago. It was a tough choice, if I were making this list in another week I'd probably change my mind. I'm not a big Lee fan, and I do think his last year was a bit of a fluke but the guy won the last year Cy Young and that pushed him over for me.
I would like to point out chipper jones is in an episode of the simpsons for 5 seconds. That IMO makes him the greatest 3rd baseman evar.
Not sure how you can say Pena is inconsistant from year to year, while Delgado isnt. Pena the last 3 seasons(when he actually came into his own) his OPS's are 1.038, .871, and .960 while Delgados is .781, .871, .914. This while Pena has a much much much better glove at 1B. Since Pena came into own and joined the Rays Pena is the better player. im not sure how theres a question about it either.
Wade Boggs was in almost a whole episode, and got punched out by Barney at Moe's Bar, therefore he's the coolest 3rd baseman ever. But then I remember him riding around on a horse in 96 when the Yankees won the World Series, so he can go to hell.
Brian McCann should be much, much higher. That isn't a homer pick either. The guy is outstanding. Plus, he looks bad *** with his new glasses...that right there should put him into the top 10. Tim Lincecum should also be in the top 10.
