Nope I watched it, I'm a big NBA fan I always watch the finals unless I'm deployed or work keeps me away. I watched it and thats my opinion. The refs were terrible, I'm not accusing anyone of foul play just saying they were whistle happy and it went in the Heats favor. The refs usually hold onto the whistles and let teams play in the playoffs unless physical play gets out of hand, they don't send players to the line 20 times a night consistently. The refs were terrible for that series.
Or people just having a different opinion. Its possible for two people to watch a series and see two different things, for instance if you are a fan of that team and can't be objective....
i hope the magic win it all. if nothing else than to knock out lebron and shut up shaq. both things would make me really happy.
Your current franchise player agrees with Shaq. Based on what? I hate Shaq... but he was CLEARLY right about Van Gundy. Not mad... I just don't care to argue with nor respect the basketball opinion of someone who admittedly doesn't have interest in watching basketball. What's the point? You are crediting the greatest performance in the history of the NBA Finals to the referees, so why anyone should have an ounce of respect for your opinion on this subject matter is beyond me. Not only that, but you compensate your ridiculous statement with the cliche "and I like Wade" crap. That's like me bashing a person but starting the argument off with, "No disrespect, but..." - simply put, it holds no ground.
I don't think saying the refs played a hand in the Heats title means that you hate a player or disrespect them, just being honest. If I knew the refs would give me the calls I'd take it to the rim all night too, its the smart thing to do. The greatest performance ever? Thats a pretty ridiculous statement, obviously from someone who didn't watch Magic in his prime, Jordan in his prime, etc. They didn't need 20 free throws a night either. I still watch the NBA I've just lost a lot of interest in who wins or loses because I think the refs are out of control and have too much of an impact on who wins or loses. Theres a lot more people than me that view that finals the same way, most of the people I talk to thought that was one of the worst finals ever officiating wise, its natural that a board full of Heat fans would defend it, its to be expected but I've watched enough basketball to know bad officiating when I see it. The anger, venom and namecalling in the posting here says a lot, or very little depending on how you view it.
It is beyond obvious that you ignored the link of Hollinger's piece that listed the GREATEST performances in FINALS history. YEP...WADE'S was at #1. Magic never had a series like Wade had. Only MICHAEL JORDAN had a series comparable to what Wade did. so it is not ridiculous. it is ridiculous to do what you did in saying it was "ridiculous". again...you didn't see the series. you are just repeating what you heard others say. The GREATEST performance in NBA FINALS HISTORY. PERIOD. anybody that says different is just hating.
Educate yourself finfan72. This is John Hollinger saying it.....John Hollinger. the most respected basketball mind in all of the media.
lol...I love how this thread has become a us "Heat fans" against everyone else. Whats funny is I am pretty sure I am the only Heat fan that likes Shaq.
heat fan should kiss the ground shaq walks on. If it wasnt for him there would be no title period. Anyone who doesnt agree is a blind homer.
If you want to convince yourself by repeating this nonsense that I didn't see the series go ahead, I don't think I've ever been a liar which is what you are accusing me of, pretty low class of you. The greatest performance ever is ridiculous and honestly there aren't any respected NBA minds at ESPN, their coverage is awful. I wouldn't put Wade's performance close to the top, I don't form opinions based upon ESPN talking heads about any sport.
Hollinger is as respected a basketball mind as exists on this planet. he agrees with me that Wade's performance was the best OF ALL TIME. PERIOD. If you had a set of working eyes ...you could agree as well. To say that it is "ridiculous" to suggest that it was the best performance is what is ridiculous and leads me to the conclusion that you did not see the series. I have it on tape. I will gladly send you a copy to refresh your memory.
I don't know man. I mean, Shaq definitely was a major part. But Wade put the team on his back. He was the most valuable player on the roster. Definitely no title without Wade.
Crazy how this team is a Lebron buzzer-beater away from being up 3-0. Surely David Stern can't be happy. I'm reminded of my favorite Bill Simmons parody from his MVP race a few years ago. Replace Shirley with Van Gundy and make the topic of conversation "a Kobe-Lebron final", and there ya go.
Whats ridiculous is how you can't have possibly been watching the league for very long to think that was the greatest performance ever. I can't give anyone that much credit going up against those Mav teams that can't play defense. Its just not as impressive as Jordan dominating great Knicks defenses or Magic going one on one with Bird or any number of the great NBA playoff performances. Why hasn't Wade been able to repeat 'the greatest performance ever'? Guess its harder to do when you aren't getting 20 free throws a night.
I love how the refs won the game when on that last drive, there is a photo of Wade being fouled. An hand slapping him across the arm. Then people resort to 'Well he wouldnt have made the shot anyway'. I had no idea that counted towards whether or not a foul should be called. If you get hit you get free throws. It's the same for every player in the league. Those who are better at driving to the basket get more calls because they are in the lane more drawing contact. Also I know we could have won that Championship without Shaq. How? Because he had very little role in actually winning any games in the finals.
back to the topic of the thread, its kind of nice to see Van Gundy having success, I do think he was scapegoated by the Heat players, I think it was pretty rough was Riley did to him. You can justify it by the fact that the team won a title for sure but I think he's a solid coach. If Doc Rivers can win a title, I don't see why Van Gundy can't.
I don't know you still have to account for Shaq and Wade was getting a clear lane to the basket a lot, Shaq has a lot to do with that. Shaq wasn't the beast he was in his prime on that team but they would have had a much harder time winning or getting to that finals without him drawing attention. They haven't done much without him despite Wade putting up huge numbers since he left either.
You're right he hasn't had any great games since. He only led the league in scoring, he must have been playing like crap all year. Second off it takes a TEAM to win a championship. Lebron is learning that now, and Lebron has a far superior TEAM to Wade at this point in time. Third if it was that easy to repeat why would it be the greatest ever? That would just make it average if you could just walk on the court and do it.
The entire makeup of the team is different. It isn't just Shaq that left. Wade and Haslem are pretty much the only guys worth anything left from that team (and maybe the only two period as I sit here thinking about it) Also Shaq was in foul trouble so much in that season (and playoffs) that you didnt have to account for it because he wasn't on the floor.
SIGH. I guess you missed the part where Hollinger agrees with me and he has forgotten more basketball than you have ever known. as for "repeating" that performance? are you serious? kinda a stupid statement...but it is kinda hard to repeat the GREATEST PERFORMANCE IN FINALS HISTORY. that 20 free throws a night crap gets old btw. It is a crutch you keep resorting to and kinda reveals that you don;t really even know how many free throws he really got. But hey...the "20 free throws a night" line is the easiest one to repeat.
No one ever said he hasn't been great since then, just not in the playoffs. Talk to me about how many games my Wizards win with Arenas amongst the top scorers in the league, it isn't everything. You're right the Heat as a team are worse now but I keep hearing about how Wade single handedly carried that team, apparently he didn't.
I didn't miss the part, I told you I don't care what Hollinger or you think about that performance, I think the refs had a ton to do with that series. Thats why I don't put it up there with the greatest ever, that and the fact that it wasn't against a great team. I give more credit to Magic putting up huge games against the all time Celts teams or Jordan carrying his team past great defensive teams like the Knicks year in and year out. Sorry but Wade's performance doesn't even crack the top 5 with me.
with YOU being the most important part of your post. Hate to break it to you...... I am a basketball junkie. Those Laker/Celtic teams didn;t even play as good a defense as the Mavs did in that series. the Heat/Knicks/Rockets/Pistons teams were really good defensive teams. Anyway...we deserved that championship and anybody with a brain after watching that series would come to the conclusion that we outplayed Dallas in that series and deserved the 4-2 series win.
Oh...and magic....played with 2 other hall of famers. So did Bird. Wade carried a huffing and puffing 12 ppg center accross the finish line.
Back on topic....Shaq and Mike Brown aka Coach Of The Year now knows the strength of Van Gundy's pimp hand. Very strong.
DUDE. you weren;t even born when those series took place. so yeah...let me repeat that again..just in case... THOSE Laker and Celtic teams were BAD defensive teams compared to any of the modern finals teams including the Mavs.
BTW...saw most of games 3 through 6 of the Heat Mavs series again (a ton of rain here in miami) .....and yeah...anybody that hated the officiating in that series has either an axe to grind or is just hating. BTW....the intentional fouls by the Mavs in each game were hilarious. Wade driving right past Devin Harris or Jason Terry..and then some Dallas Big INTENTIONALLY fouling to put him on the line...in some cases grabbing and hugging. in Game 5..there were 8 FT's due to intentional fouls..and in Game 6 there were 6 FT's due to intentional fouls. the only "contraversial" call the Mavs fans and Heat Haters can come up with (Game 5 in OT) has VISUAL PHOTOGRAPHIC evidence of the foul...so go figure. upon further review...Bill Simmons is still an idiot...
It is possible to not think PER is the end all be all of ranking players...in which case disagreeing with his list isnt hating. A Heat fan believing that list is the end all be all isnt surprising, but that doesnt make it a fact. I'm not even saying I disagree w/ it, just that to do so isnt ridiculous. Jordan's 91 series looks pretty damn good to me, as does Shaq in 2000, but I dont have enough of a stake to really argue against anyone in the top 5 or so. Though Dwades ranking on the all time PER list isnt all that impressive. So if you believe in PER your argument that Wade is a top 5 player might take a hit, no? (Unless he was accidentally left off the list I saw, which might be the case?) And Bill Simmons is great lol.
Mike Brown was a joke as "Coach of the year" anyways. You should not get coach of the yr for riding your superstars coat tails, IMO.
