http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/football/story/1073806.html Yikes! He's referring to Ginn with this quote: Not a chance that he does not make the team. That would be totally insane. I was just watching that rerun of the NE game(when we lost) and D. Bess is freakin' amazing! An undrafted rookie? Are you kidding me? He's a lot like the "marks bros." He's making the team. Well, it's Armando and he's a shmuck!
We don't need a number one wide receiver; we need a group of wide receivers who can be relied upon to move the chains in critical situations in my opinion. If I went out to look for a number one wide receiver, he'd be better a guy who can command double teams consistently because otherwise, I'm not sure he's much more different than a group of above average guys who can move the chains at a lower price. In my opinion, we don't have a number one wide receiver on the roster but we do have a group of guys who can move the chains and I think that's alright but that's just my honest opinion.
Bess not having a roster spot with his name on it? Give me a break. He can drop rest of the passes thrown his way for the rest of the OTAs, and still have less drops than the rest of the guys.
I hear ya' bro. I've been saying a lot lately about how important he is to us. Those knee injuries worry me, but I really hope he can come back to 100%. He and Bess and if Turner works out, we have the potential to have a great receiving corp. IMO.
I'm with ya' I don't think we need a true #1 receiver to be successful either. If Turner works out and can command some double teams and can be that "chuck it up and go up and get it", red zone threat kind of guy and having Bess and hopefully a healthy Camarillo and maybe if some of the others can emerge with continued solid play from our TEs, then we have the potential to have a serious receiving corp. IMO.
Yea figure Mando comes up with something like Bess isn't even guaranteed a roster spot. The guy as an undrafted free agent comes in and catches 54 balls which ended up being like 72% of passes being thrown at him. I have to agree with Alen here that in this offense we may not have a number one in a true sense like Houston does with Andre Johnson for example but I actually prefer our way. Collectively the receiving corp was a top ten I believe which is pretty damn good. Added bonus for me is that with the money it would cost to pay a guy like Anquan Boldin for example is better used in other places like the OL and defense or the offensive backfield.
Bess not making the roster?! Cmon Mandy, we already know youre an idiot, you really don't have anything more to prove. You're not even smart enought to be a good jets fan let alone a Dolphin beat reporter. Somebody give that tool a mop so he can make himself useful
'Nando is the same cat who said Ronnie Brown was the 3rd best back on the roster last season. This may surprise some people, but I think Pat Turner may surprise and be our #1 Wr by late this season. He has that size that will allow him to be open quickly.. Unless Greg C's knee just heals amazingly quickly.
I agree that we don't really need a #1. Let's not forget about Fasano, Ronnie, Ricky, Cobbs and David Martin getting some balls too. That's a lot of targets for CP with the new additions! I'd say Ronnie, Fasano and a couple receivers AT LEAST need to be super-dependable, everything else is just icing...
I actually rather prefer we don't have a #1 WR this season, we have so many young & growing WR's that the ball needs to be spread around a lot, see what each of these kids have got and give each one a fair number of opportunities to show what they can do. I also like the idea without a clear #1 WR, opposing teams cannot key on one guy, so they are all a little more open that way IMHO.
In my opinion, Patrick Turner is similar to Keyshawn Johnson on the field. I said that as soon as he was picked and I still think he is because he's a good route runner and can be physical. I think he can take on the bump and run coverage from opponents. Keyshawn Johnson averaged 74 catches and 961 yards per season in his career, along with 5.8 touchdowns per season. I think that is certainly possible in this offense because the offense doesn't have a go to guy, rather spreading the wealth to several different targets on the field. Our leading wide receiver last year had 790 yards, 56 receptions and 2 touchdowns. I figure that Patrick Turner can put up similar statistics two years from now if he's in the starting lineup for example. Also, I think his touchdowns would go slightly up because he's a taller target, which factors in the red zone. Last year, we had a play against the St. Louis Rams I believe in which we went to Davone Bess on a fade or up and out route in the red zone because our under routes and targets were taken away by a zone defense IIRC. That wasn't going to cut it but I think with Turner's physicality and size advantage, it would work, therefore increasing his numbers, specifically touchdowns, in the red zone. What will be key with him overall is developing the consistency in my opinion. I can see what you mean but I wonder if it would be the opposite. If you have a number one target that has the ability to command double teams and extra attention on a consistent basis then it would further open up your offense in the short to intermediate to long routes in my opinion. The number one player would also leave the wide receivers open more often because of the extra attention and give more open space to run in against a zone defense for Ted Ginn, for example. However, finding a guy who can do that is really hard IMO, especially when you think wide outs are a position that is easily replaceable and is not worth an X amount of money yearly. I think that's the reason I wouldn't go after a number one target in free agency or via trade for example. If we're talking about the NFL Draft and I wanted to gamble on a guy who could be that star and impact player on the wide receiving core, I wouldn't take him in the first round unless I knew three things; 1) he knew how to run NFL routes and ran an abundance of them on the route tree in college, 2) he's an extremely hard worker who is self-motivated and wants to learn and my number 3 would be that he's got good hands. If he doesn't have those three things then I, personally, wouldn't take a wide receiver in the first. I'd rather take a guy who can run quality routes, is a hard worker who overcame obstacles in his collegiate career to be successful and has good hands. That, in my opinion, was seen in this 2009 draft. Michael Crabtree was taken tenth overall by the 49ers and Jarrett Dillard was taken 144th overall by the Jacksonville Jaguars in the fifth round. While Crabtree was chillin' with his pimped out wheels and eating terrible food for his body and conditioning, Jarrett Dillard was working his tail off at Rice University, overcoming doubts from scouts coming out of high school and then again at the combine because he's not a burner. He can play though.
Wow...me and Alen agree on something, though the Keyshawn comparison is a bit much, keep in mind Keyshawn went to a really poor Jets team and he and Chrebet were the only targets on the way to another #1 overall pick. Turner moves well for a big Wr, not as well as a Boldin or one of the top guys, though I think that is more of a conditioning issue with him, watch a highlight film and he manages seperation, then is caught from behind. The key for P Turner, and we will know right away, is whether or not he can get off the line in Training Camp, we have alot better corner's this year and if he can beat their press, he can make some noise for us this season.
If he hadn't gotten hurt I'd say Cam Cam all the way. Hell maybe he ends up healthy this season and does it anyway. Up until his injury he WAS the best WR we had last year, but it was close.
If I had to think of another guy, it'd probably be Muhsin Muhammad or Nate Washington, even though he's smaller than Turner. What I hope Dan Henning adds to our passing plays is a quick slant. I don't recall seeing that much last year, if any at all but I think it would work well with a guy like Patrick Turner (or Ted Ginn). He's big and while he isn't the fastest guy, I think he's got good quickness. I think he lacks the long speed. I don't think he'll run away from anyone anytime soon but I could be wrong.
Mushin is a spot on comparison, though from what I've seen Mushin is more polished but a decade in the NFL will do that for a Wr. The way I see it, Turner has enough athletic explosion to seperate and then catch the ball in stride, then he just doesn't have the endurance to keep up that initial speed. I'm hoping that 90 days in the Italian Leprechaun's school for poorly conditioned athletes changes the equation..
This team has not had a number 1 receiver since trading Chambers, and they played last year without one. True Ginn was listed as a #1 receiver but he didn't fill the role. I have been disappointed and frustrated with Ginns progress,honestly should a guy entering the third year learn how to run simple routes? But I want him to prove my thoughts about him wrong. I would love to see Ginn to succeed and show all the dolfans and the Nfl he is the real deal. This is year three for Ginn it is time to make it or break it, so Ginn the ball is in your court
That's an interesting thought. I've always felt that Ginn, despite raw coming out, ran pretty good routes and displayed good hands in his rookie year with Cleo Lemon starting. He ran routes well last year if I remember correctly and has steadily improved his game over the course of his first two seasons in my opinion. I think the biggest knock on him is that he's not lived up to his billing but I think what has to be considered is that he's been relied upon to be the go-to-guy. He's been just 'another' wide receiver here in Miami because of the style of offense we play. As stated earlier, we don't really have a number one wide receiver but we do have three guys who can do a good job of moving the chains and getting open. Personally, I think people may be disappointed with Ginn next year because he won't blow up the league and go on to catch an X amount of balls for 1100+ yards but I think if he catches 65-70 balls for 900 yards and six total touchdowns while improving his game overall, I think it would be a successful year and a successful transition from what he came in as to where he would be a year from now. Just my two cents though.
Disagree Aqua, even though Wr are Chateau Petrus circa 1947 for you. The difference between Greg C and P Turner is, Turner has the physical ability to take the slant and run a long time with it, if he is in shape. Greg C is the short term, long term, P Turner is the guy.
