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White Brings New Dimension To Dolphins

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ATVZ400, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Maybe, if he can be successful.

    I've said before that White is a significant dropoff from Pennington, so is there really a benefit from letting him take snaps at QB? White is a significant dropoff from guys like Ginn, Cammy, Bess who have more experience and better instincts at WR. Having White run the WC will cut into Ronnie's productivity, he did his best when taking snaps in the WC last year. So unless White can come in an be as productive as those players that he's replacing, is there really a benefit?

    My concern is that the FO is going to put him in various spots to justify his selection and it will lead to turnovers at QB, dropped passes and misqueues at WR and a decline in Ronnie's ability to contribute to the team.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Depends where your letting him take the snaps. If we're talking about Wildcat, yeah there's a benefit. He can run or pass. If we're talking base offense, then yeah there's a dropoff but I don't see him taking snaps from the base offense extensively. In the future, maybe. When Pennington is done and if our starting QB, Chad Henne, goes down then yeah Pat White will be back there.

    Who cares about his productivity? If we're winning, Ronnie's stats can take a back seat.

    As productive will be a tough feat in my opinion because he won't be stashed at one position full-time like the rest of the ones listed. Could he have a pretty big impact? I think so.

    I can see your concerns but I honestly think your putting too much of a negative thinking on this.
     
  3. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Well it goes back to my point about the effectiveness of the WC, I think in order to keep it somewhat of a surprise, we'll need to let White take a few snaps in our base offense to set up the WC. Otherwise teams will know what's coming as soon as he steps out on the field. If White is brought in as a WR in order to set up the WC, then that still leaves us with Penny at WR and it's just one less weapon for us to utilize.

    I do, he's our best offensive player and under utilizing him doesn't make much sense IMO. Infact I think doing so would make it harder to win. :wink2:

    I meant "as productive" in those situations, this way.... If he comes in and runs the base and turns the ball over, that isn't productive or efficient like Penny would be. If he's dropping passes or running bad routes that lead to incompletions, that isn't being as productive as the guys who would have been in position due to their experience.

    He doesn't have to equal their season totals, just be as effective out on the field as those players would be in the same situations.

    I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic. It's hard enough for rookies to come in and make an impact at one position, White is going to have to make an impact at 2 spots, one of which he has zero experience playing. I'd like to think that he could come in and do well, I just have serious questions whether or not it's likely.
     
  4. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    They're going to know that we're in the Wildcat as soon as they see an unbalanced offensive line. I think that the defense still has to account for him either passing it or running it in the Wildcat formation so they're in a surprise either way. They play too close to the line and you audible to a hot route for Patrick Cobbs for example, where you get him matched up with a linebacker. If they give too much space, you audible to a run if your in a pass situation.

    He's overrated IMO.

    Correct. Are you expecting all those negatives though? Because all those apply to the daily routine for these wide receivers, running backs, and quarterbacks. Even the experienced ones have those issues. If Pat White does it, there will be a stronger remark about it because of the opinions voiced by some of his draft selection, correct?

    He'll be given the opportunity.

    Honestly, I think your doing a little bit of both. No disrespect intended.
     
  5. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Right, but you're missing the point I was making. If we bring White in and immediately run the WC, teams are going to catch on and know what's coming. If we want to keep it somewhat of a surprise, we would have to run a few plays with him in there and then go WC, the hurry up offense would be a way to keep mismatches and not allow teams to counter us. Bringing White on and immediately going WC will allow defenses to make adjustments.

    Respectfully disagree

    Based on the fact that he's a rookie, the fact that he has some concerns at both QB and WR, I'm not expecting him to do as well as the folks he's replacing in those situations. I think the criticism will come regardless with who isn't producing, but if it's a player that is playing out of position or who is taking snaps away from a more qualified player, then I think it's more than fair to make the argument.

    We'll have to see how he does, but I don't think he'll be able to make a major impact as a rookie while learning a whole new position.

    Absoultely, but how long do you stick with him if he isn't getting the job done?

    Not at all, that would imply that I want to see the Phins do poorly, which certainly isn't the case. :wink2:
     
  6. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I see, my mistake.

    Sounds good. :up:
    Right but my point was that whether he's a rookie or experienced player, he's going to make mistakes. Its just that when Pat White makes them, the critics - who were opposed to taking him at 44 - will come out, loud and proud and criticize him and say "told ya so."

    Dunno. That's for the coach to answer, lol.

    Or it may imply that you expecting negative results from a draft choice that you dislike. ;)
     
  7. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    But the mistakes of an inexperienced player are much more visible, no?

    LIAR! :tongue2:

    My love for the team and wanting to see them do well overrides any dislikes that I have for an individual player (Porter, Taylor, Crowder, Ricky, Penny's arm, etc). I want the Phins to win before anything else, if those players can help us, so be it. If those players falter, I'll point it out just like I would with any player. :wink2:
     
  8. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yeah if you look at it that way. In the end, they both make mistakes and that's the point.

    :shifty:

    True. You don't like Porter? :lol:
     
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  9. like2god

    like2god Typical white person Luxury Box

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    Okay, now would it be fair to say that an inexperienced player is more likely to make more mistakes than an experienced player?

    See where I'm going with this? :wink2:

    :shifty:

    Not since day 1, I don't like players that run their mouths. Zach Thomas was the perfect example of a guy who just did it out on the field, I'd like a team full of Zach Thomas's if it were possible. :yes:
     
  10. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Yes. Still make mistakes though. :)

    *pees in L2G's cheerios* :shifty:

    I see.

    :pity:

    :tongue2:
     
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  11. TiP54

    TiP54 Bad Reputation

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    Well, if they didn't think there was a legit chance if 'Cat becoming more than a 5 play "gimmick" they woulnd't of drafted White?


    And it makes sense that it was the most effective vs the Pats because we ran in for the first time. And sure, as the season went on, it became less effective because it turned in to a run only formation for most of the time, because Ronnie is capable of throwing any "serious" passes.
    They will gamplan to what they *think* is coming. How much they can prepare for if they dont know? Sure, they can assume a thing or two. But until you see it on film, they won't know whats coming.

    Personally, I dont think he will be a pro bowler, or ROY, but he does have the potential to come in and give some teams some looks on offense that they weren't prepare for. Practice can only take you so far, how many teams carry a player with Pats running/passing ability?

    And thats just a matter of opinion.
    Agreeing on disagreeing :)


    Sure. It doesn't look like smart drafting right now. Time will show for that.

    And if that "luxury" player will bring out a whole new side of the offense?

    Again, agreeing on disagreeing. None of the players you listed are guaranteed to turn out to be worth the pick. No player is really "guaranteed" to do anything. Im confident that our FO knew that we need an OLB and some Olinemen as well as you do, and im sure they considered everything, before taking White over the players you listed.

    I guess its the matter of us seeing the things the way we want to see them, and the way it makes the most sense *I*
    We just have to agree to disagree. :hi5:
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The Wildcat is not a formation. And the purpose of the scheme is not to confuse or throw off the defense, the purpose is bring a 8th or 9th defender into the box.

    The formation was used a small percentage of the time, but because we did not have the right personnel. Baltimore used a safety to spy the ball, and normally the counter to that would be taking advantage of 9 men in the box, but Brown just doesn't have the passing skills to take advantage of that. Thats the reason I don't think we really viewed Harvin as a guy that could run the WC. Remember, Parcells was at the senior bowl for a reason, and Charlie Casserly has said that Parcells said they wanted White a number of months before the draft. On draft day, we even got info that the interest in Harvin was a big smokescreen.
     
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  13. AquaBlitz

    AquaBlitz Active Member

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    Then what is it exactly? The wildcat is a more modern version of the "single-wing" formation. The key word being "formation." Every time an offense lines up, they line up in a formation. Whether it be shotgun, I, full house, goal line, etc. I think you made a typo with your original post, if not my bad, just explain how it isn't a formation.
     
  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The Wildcat is a scheme. All the Wildcat means is the player taking the snap is a threat to run the football. You can use different formations within that scheme. You can use an unbalanced line like we did last year at times, or you can go into a 4 WR spread as I believe we will be doing. I don't think we drafted two WRs to go along with the ones we already had for nothing.

    Ideally, I think this coaching staff wants to put 4 WRs out there, with White taking the snap and Ronnie with him in the backfield. Will the defense commit an 8th man into the box? If so, then you have 3 defensive backs trying to cover our 4 WRs. If they keep 7 in the box, then we should be able to run for 5ypc. Having that extra runner in the backfield makes defending the run a lot harder. Inherently, the Wildcat offense forces the defense to assign a defender to account for the QB, which is not the case in most other offensive schemes.
     
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  15. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    The Miami WildCat is the single wing
    & Pat White made a career playing within that formation, utilizing its utmost potential.
    that's the primary reason he was drafted
    you can shift the wing (strong side/weak side) right of left or split it down the middle with the spread, but its still the single wing
    we haven't even tapped the potential of the system.
    Last year we ran only different six plays from the the WildCat (SingleWing:StrongSide-right formation)
    With an experienced & proven QB who has already made his bones in the Single Wing the potential is expanded considerably.
    I believe White will captain the co-offense this year, accounting @least 30% of our total offense.
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Whats up L2G..

    You keep saying he does'nt have a true position, or he's A 'jack of all trades master at none"....Thats because his true position on this team, in this offense, is in the process of being defined..By the end of the year, i believe the position of X factor will have a more serious tone to it then it has in the past.

    We, nor the rest of the NFL, has never gone down this road, with this offense, and this type player running it. To be the true x factor of an offense, he will have to do it all, his skills DEMAND that he be played differently then anything we've seen in this league.

    I disagree with you about your acessment of this offense's direction into the NFL. It will continue to show what serious talent, execution, and creativity could evolve into. Get the ball in the hands of your best players, create some hesitation, smash them up front with powerful lineman, and you can pick up 4 yards like any counter or dive play could.

    A talented Jack of all trades, is exactly what we needed, we identified him, and committed to both, the offense, and the player.

    I dont think i have gone overboard in any of my acessments of the offense's direction or the player, never said he would go to the probowl or that he could beat henne out. I just see lanes, angles, hesitation and space that could be created by using the scheme, and right type of player executing it.
     
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  17. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    Henne is the odd man out this year. Pennington is the veteran passer playing well. Henne doesn't get a crack at his spot til Pennington gets injured or starts flailing.

    Pat White is fast an mobile. He can run and throw the ball and is a complete athlete. Henne doesn't get a crack at his spot either. Pat White will see the field first because of the Wild Cat. But in 2010 we'll have too young, talented QB's. Pat White is a great pickup for this team because of 2010 and beyond.
     
  18. RalphX19X

    RalphX19X >:)

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    a little off topic but the new york Yankees drafted Pat White.
     
  19. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    the drafting of White was studied, thought out & deliberate
    the Patriots, as well as the Cowboys were in the mix to pick him up
    had we not drafted him in the second round he wouldn't have been a Dolphin
    it's about that simple & he will be the starting QB captaining the WildCat
     

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