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Learn Japanese!

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by TokyoFishFan, Jul 11, 2008.

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  1. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    OK. This thread will contain tidbits on the Japanese language. I'm not actually very good at it myself, but I know enough to be a bit dangerous and at least enough to help anyone out a little so they don't make complete asses out of themselves.

    So, if you want to speak Japanese, or at least be able to properly pronounce Japanese words, here's starter lesson #1:

    All Japanese letters contain one of the 5 basic sounds. AH, EE, OO, EH, OH.
    The above is normally written in "Romanji" as a, i, u, e, o.

    Looks familiar, doesn't it? English vowels are a, e, i, o, u. The above are just mixed up a little.

    The #1 difference between English and Japanese in this case is that the vowels ALWAYS MAKE THE SAME SOUND EVERY TIME!!!
    "a" ALWAYS = the "AH" sound
    "i" ALWAYS = the "EE" sounds or long English "E" sound
    "u" ALWAYS = the "oo" sound as in poop
    "e" ALWAYS = the "EH" sounds like in the word "let" or "pet"
    "o" ALWAYS = the long o sound as in "bone" or "phone"

    Now, for practice, try saying the following words in Japanese:

    Hai (pronounced HAH EE--but very short--do not elongate the vowels sounds)
    Hai means "Yes"

    Dame (pronounced DAH MEH and is a scolding word meaning don't do it)

    karaoke (always mispronounced in the US and is equated with bad singing)

    Domo arigato gozaimasu = Thank You Very Much

    for the lesson today.

    More to come in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  2. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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    Domo Aregato.

    Just a point for clarification, is that an error where you wrote that all letters contains five sounds?
     
  3. Celtkin

    Celtkin <B>Webmaster</b> Luxury Box

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    Thanks brother. I hope that you will make this a regular feature :)
     
  4. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Also: it's "arigato", not aregato in the proper transliteration. You have to get used to seeing "i" and pronouncing it as "EE" (EDIT)

    Clarification:

    There are five basic sounds in the Japanese language/alphabet set, particularly when you talk of hiragana and katakana.

    The first 5 are: a(あ), i(い), u(う), e(え), o(お)
    (You may need the Japanese character set to see the Japanese Hiragana written above.)

    As you start learning the rest of the basic hiragana and katakana "alphabets," those sounds are what you will use.

    For example, the next 5 are:
    ka (か)、ki (き)、 ku (く)、 ke (け)、and ko (こ)

    So whenever you see "ka" or the hirangana for it, you ALWAYS pronouce it "KAH".
    When you see "ki", you always pronouce it "KEE".

    And so on.

    So...
    a, i, u, e, o
    ka, ki, ku, ke, ko
    ...

    Got it?

    For those who want to jump right in, look here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
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  5. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Pretty cool...so is karaoke

    1) Ka - row - kee or Kara-Oh-kee (its obviously not Carry - Oh - Kee)

    Ya know, this actually is a great idea...wonder if we can sticky, or if enough interest ~ especially with the multi-lingual brothes and sisters we have on this site ~ perhpas a Foreign Language section so you can go and post words and definitions especially for folks planning on traveling or trying to learn a new language, etc?

    I think its great to be able to use fellow resources willing to share and In the Foreign Language section many different types could easily be explored???

    thoughts?
     
  6. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Looking at the lesson, I'd assume it was Ka-ra-o-keh. :up:
     
  7. vmarcilfan75

    vmarcilfan75 blah...blah...blah... Club Member

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    how do i say this?
    [​IMG]
     
  8. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Note: It's not "kee" at the end, it's KEH.

    e = "EH"

    So...karaoke is pronounced KAH-LAH-OH-KEH. (in monotone)

    I was going to get to the r's and l's later, but if you pronounce r's like l's ALL the time, Japanese folks will automatically think you have better pronounciation than most Americans who try to speak Japanese.

    In Japanese, there is no distinction between the r and l sound--which is very distinct to us.
    ==========
    Perhaps a Language Forum? I'm happy doing it in here in the lounge as well.
     
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  9. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    so r's like l's - got it, (sterotypes imply Japanese to pronouce their L's like R's too ~ far ra ra ra ra instead of Xmas song Fa la la la la) is this accurate..from pronunciation standpoint do they flip flop those two letter sounds?
     
  10. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    OK...like I said...basic Japanese and I'm still learning as well. I was hoping to get through the alphabets before getting to the more complex stuff like how to say, "I'm a stupid foreigner in Japan with ignorant stereotypes."

    Boku wa Nihon de yuumei desu.

    Means, essentially, I am famous in Japan.

    Sentence structure is different in that it's usually subject-object-verb as opposed to the US custom of subject-verb-object.

    We have a long way to go before we get there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
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  11. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Depends on where in Japan the Japanese person is from, but, as I mentioned before, they have extreme difficulty differentiating the sounds, which is why Japanese mangle English R's and L's.

    From personal experience, and what I try to teach my kids who have mostly Japanese language skills is tongue position.

    With L's, you touch your tongue to your upper teeth. With R's, the tongue is pulled back from the teeth. This is advice I would give to a Japanese person trying to speak English.

    When speaking Japanese, if you default to the "L" sound, you'll sound better to the average Japanese person although it won't be "perfect."
     
  12. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    Something that would help me...when you translate (whenever we get to that point) can you help associate what english words translate into which Japenese words since as you point out the sentence structure is scrambled.

    Above I see where Boku wa = huge/famous (or at least I am quessing from Boku bucks = lots of money, etc)

    But is Nihon = Japan?

    What is yuumei desu

    This would help me....I know its not a one to one but would help a lot.
     
  13. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    LOL. Boku is a personal pronoun used mainly by males meaning "I."
    wa is a particle.

    Nihon = Japan. You may also see it spelled as Nippon.
    de is another of those particles meaning where something is occurring (EDIT)

    yuumei = famous
    desu = is

    Nihonjin 日本人= Japanese person
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  14. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    One main note to remember when you translate from any language to another. Every language is based on the history, cultures, and traditions of a particular country/society. As such, there are some things that just cannot be translated directly. A simple phrase could take an entire book to explain in another language. In one language, you may have many words to describe a particular taste, but only one word that describes the same range of tastes in the other language. For example, tart, tangy, and sour all have very distinct meanings in English. In Japanese, all those tastes are generally described using the word suppai.
     
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  15. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    missed it by that much!
     
  16. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Time for bed for me (1240 in the am here).

    Last word for the day is gyoza. That's what's pictured in my avatar.
     
  17. BigDogsHunt

    BigDogsHunt Enough talk...prove it!

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    yeah, nailed that one...thats right, uhuh. yeah! :hi5:
     
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  18. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    What if I said "baka" to you?
     
  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is great stuff. Im not much of a language lover but Japanese has always intrigued me, I guess in part because we are never exposed to it here in the states. Please, do continue this!

    However, I always get a laugh out of the Japanese alphabet looking remarkably like doodlings in my high school notebook while trying to stay awake in class.... :)
     
  20. Cuban Dave 9

    Cuban Dave 9 Lane Kiffin = A-Clown

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    So...what does it REALLY mean when that song says "turning Japanese"
     
  21. JCowScot

    JCowScot So funky the dead dance

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    FLA USA

    [​IMG]
     
  22. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Why insult Tokyo?

    :pity:
     
  23. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    I might say, "Stupid is as stupid does" or something stupid like that.
    It could also mean "silly." :tongue2:
     
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  24. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    For that answer, I would recommend a different forum site:
    http://www.****edgaijin.com/forums/index.php?

    I suspect that part of the name of the site will be profanity filtered. (EDIT: as expected...The initials "FG" are appropriate here)
    The site is where a lot of foreigners in Japan hang out--not too many--and discuss issues on living in Japan.

    Those discussions don't really fit into the Dolphin fan perspective.
     
  25. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Hiragana

    [TABLE]あ a い i う u え e お o
    か ka き ki く ku け ke こ ko
    さ sa し shi す su せ se そ so
    た ta ち chi つ tsu て te と to
    な na に ni ぬ nu ね ne の no
    は ha ひ hi ふ fu へ he ほ ho
    ま ma み mi む mu め me も mo
    や ya ゆ yu よ yo
    ら ra り ri る ru れ re ろ ro
    わ wa ゐ wi ゑ we を wo
    ん n
    [/TABLE]

    Above is your basic Hiragana set. This is NOT ALL. I will add the other sound combinations in a later message.
    Hiragana is typically used for native Japanese words.
    There is a matching set of Katakana.
    Katakana is generally used for foreign words that have been modified a little and imported into the Japanese language.

    (EDIT) Kanji has it's origins in the Chinese language. There are several thousand and we will not get into that for some time.
     
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  26. Miamian

    Miamian Senior Member

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  27. Big E

    Big E Plus sized porn star

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    all I want to know is how to pick up a japanese hooker, and order a cheese burger....in no particular order.
     
  28. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Well, this leads nicely into the next set of characters.

    いっぱつ いくら?

    きみ いくら?

    チーズバーガーをください。

    First of all, notice the little marks that look like quotation marks? Also, you may notice the little mark that looks like a degree symbol as well, the little circle.

    These two items increase the base table by 25.

    [TABLE]が ga ぎ gi ぐ gu げ ge ご go
    ざ za じ ji ず zu ぜ ze ぞ zo
    だ da ぢ ji づ zu で de で do
    ば ba び bi ぶ bu べ be ぼ bo
    ぱ pa ぴ pi ぷ pu ぺ pe ぽ po
    [/TABLE]

    You may also know that in the last sentence above, there are some characters that are not in this table or the previous table. That's because "Cheeseburger" is a foreign word. Katakana characters are used to spell Cheeseburger. I will list the Katakana characters in a later post.

    So, sentence number 3 is:

    Cheezubaagaa 'o kudasai.
    Please give me a cheeseburger.

    Kudasai is one of many ways to say please when you request something.

    The other two phrases end in ikura.

    Ikura means how much.

    チーズバーガーはいくらですか?

    Cheezubaaga wa ikura desu ka?
    means, "How much is a cheeseburger?"

    One other note. "ha" は is read "wa" when it is used as a particle.
     
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  29. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Questions.

    When you see KA ( か ) at the end of a sentence, you can usually assume you are being asked a question.
     
  30. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    Katakana

    Wow! Has it really been a year since I visited this thread? Let's see, where did we leave off?

    [TABLE]ア a イ i ウ u エ e オ o
    カ ka キ ki ク ku ケke コ ko
    サ sa シ shi ス su セ se ソ so
    タ ta チ chi ツ tsu テ te ト to
    ナ na ニ ni ヌ nu ネ ne ノ no
    ハ ha ヒ hi フ fu ヘ he ホ ho
    マ ma ミ mi ム mu メ me モ mo
    ヤ ya ユ yu ヨ yo
    ラ ra リ ri ル ru レ re ロ ro
    ワ wa ヰ or ウィ wi ヱ or ウェ we ウォ or ヲ wo
    ン n
    [/TABLE]

    Above is your basic Katakana set. This is NOT ALL. I will add the other sound combinations in a later message.
    Katakana is typically used for foreign words imported into Japanese.
     
  31. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    More Katakana

    [TABLE]ガ ga ギ gi グ gu ゲ ge ゴ go
    ザ za ジ ji ズ zu ゼ ze ゾ zo
    ダ da ヂ ji ヅ zu デ de ド do
    バ ba ビ bi ブ bu ベ be ボ bo
    パ pa ピ pi プ pu ペ pe ポ po
    [/TABLE]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana
     
  32. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
  33. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    How did I miss this thread? I have a friend who has been studying Japanese for 5 years. He is american but I can ask him for some things as well to take some of the load off you Tokyo.. he's planning on moving to Japan to teach English so I think he might know enough Japanese. I also have a little book that I was studying which I could look some more common phrases up to add to the thread.

    Thanks for the knowledge Tokyo..
     
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  34. anlgp

    anlgp ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A

    Domo arigato gozaimasu = Thank You Very Much

    Going back to this lesson I will point out from what I know that you do not pronounce the "u" on the end of gozaimasu. so it's said like gozaimas but spelled gozaimasu.

    Tokyo correct me if i'm wrong but gozaimasu is the polite way of saying it and it's not necessarily said that way amongst friends or peers but more to your superiors or elders?
     
  35. TokyoFishFan

    TokyoFishFan New Member

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    Tokyo!
    You are correct. There's never a problem using the more polite form of it, but you are not required to among equals and those younger or in a lower position than yourself.
     
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