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2009/2010 Mets. The Jerry is gone version!

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by Boik14, Feb 10, 2009.

  1. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    What's wrong with Lugo? It's just an insurance policy against Reyes not getting back to the lineup and Alex Cora continuing his recent nosedive.
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I agree. Hey he absolutely stunk with the Red Sox but for what 480k to sign him or a D level prospect to trade for him why not? He has limited to little range, stone hands and his arm stinks but that makes him as just good as Alex Cora defensively (ok Cora isn't that bad but the notion that he's a good fielder is a myth), and Lugo can still hit a little bit. Put him in the NL and who knows maybe he can be a decent player again, he's already an upgrade over Cora, as mentioned above, Ramon Martinez, Argenis Reyes and every other weak hitting middle infielder the Mets used this year. If I was Omar I'd jump at the chance to sign him. And why not Omar has signed or traded for every other cast off or scrub in the past 8 months, only Lugo might not actually be done as an everyday player.
     
  3. mixmaster_matt

    mixmaster_matt New Member

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    So did anyone hear about the Halladay trade on WFAN today? They were saying that the Blue Jays talked to Omar about Halladay for Niese, Parnell, F. Mart, and Guerrera, the ss prospect. Don't know about how much truth there is in it but according to the story Omar turned it down quickly. What do you guys think about this?
     
  4. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It turned out to be false. The trade rumor was Halladay for Martinez, Parnell, Niese and Tejeda. Multiple people have already came out and said an offer was never on the table. The Mets and Jays had talked in the past few days but they never discussed specific players and no deals were ever offered.

    I will say that if it was in fact true and Omar (or any GM for that matter) turned it down they should be fired on the spot. That would be an absolute steal for the Mets. But clearly that wouldn't be enough for Halladay.
     
  5. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    /EndDiscussion

    Seriously there is absolutely NO WAY the Jays would trade Halladay for that. They dont even HAVE to trade him, and if they did they could certainly get a MUCH better deal.
     
  6. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    No to mention Halladay has a no-trade clause. Wanna bet he'd have vetoed that anyhow?
     
  7. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yup good point, I doubt he'd be rushing to pitch for them after what has happened in the past few seasons, especially since they most likely won't even make the playoffs again this year.
     
  8. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I'm not sure trading for Halladay would make a ton of sense for the Mets anyway. They're 9 games out; it might be time to think about 2010.
     
  9. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That trade whether real or not would have been a disaster for the mets on so many levels. For one, halladay has a year and two months left on his deal and toronto isn't letting anyone negotiate an extension with him. So you may be giving up 4 very good young players for a player who may only be with you for a short period of time.

    Secondly, the mets have so many spots that they need help at this is precisely the type of deal they should not be exploring. Niese is on the verge of being mlb ready and looks like he could hold down the #5 spot better then any of the current options are. His upside is pretty good, he's a lefty with good control and who an throw strikes at 92-93. I'm not prepared to judge f-mart off of 150 ab's; people tried to do that to reyes at that same age and he just crapped on them. And parnell and tejada are both solid and in tejada's case he's like 17 and already playing decent in AA.

    last, halladay doesn't fix the mets biggest problem...they can't hit.

    Whether the rumor was true or not, and I believe it was use heyman isn't a two bit hack, it deserved to be rejected from the mets point of view even though halladay is outstanding. He's also 32. What better way to get the phillies to overpay then to imply the mets are close to a deal and what better way for the mets to hype their prospects than to say they are worth more than halladay.
     
  10. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah it was Heyman who reported it so it was kind of surprising it was bogus. However if you're the Mets you absolutely have to make that deal. You'd be getting the 2 best pitchers in the game for half of this year and all of next. True the Mets probably won't make the playoffs this year but they would definitely be the favorites in the East with a rotation of Halladay and Santana. They could use the money they get from Delgado and Wagner to try and sign a big name FA like Holliday or Bay and then try to extent Halladay. If he said no and walks after the 2010 season you'll get 2 draft picks (which might not even help the Mets considering they've been drafting poorly due to them not wanting to over slot for picks).

    Yeah it was hurt losing Martinez who could be a stud and I admit I don't know a lot about Tejeda but Parnell and Niese are easily replaceble. And did I mention you'd have the 2 best pitchers in baseball to go along with K-Rod and hopefully a healthy Wright, Reyes and Beltran ready to go for 2010.

    I think the trade would have been an absolute no brainer for the Mets. Again if this was in fact true.
     
  11. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I dont necessarily believe it to be bogus. I believe it could have been leaked by minaya and or Riccardi or vise verse or both to get Philly to overbid and put philly in that sink or swim position of having to either get Halladay themselves and worry about resigning him or believe that they will be facing they will be facing halladay and santana for the next year, possibly well beyond.

    If Toronto gave the mets a 48 hour window I might not be as against it but truth be told Im against any deal involving The King, or Wilmer Flores, Brad Holt, Jon Niese, Josh Thole, and Ike Davis. This team as it is right now has a lot of holes and the Wilpons will never go all out (i.e. NYY territory) on the payroll. So the only way this team can get its payroll under control and keep Wright, Reyes, and Santana throughout their prime years is to develop some players to put around those studs. Im not against adding players to the Mets core but I'm against doing it in that fashion.

    Actually the Mets dont draft poorly at all in the first round at least. There last 9 firsts have all reached the majors and some like Wright and Kazmir have become stars. Not overslotting has hurt them in the mid rounds. Early on they overslotted in rd 1 on Milledge and Pelfrey in recent years.

    Extremely short term = good deal
    Even if the Mets extend Halladay for something like 5/90 those 36, 37, and 38 year old years arent going to look so good at 18M per. Even long term I dont like the prospects of this deal.
     
  12. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    The Phillies are playing well enough right now that we really don't need Halladay. If we get him fine, if not... no biggie. If Halladay were to go to the Phillies for 3 to 5 top prospects, and then decide after 2009 that he wants to be traded, the Phillies would be able to get plenty in return for Halladay. The Phillies have to weigh the immediate benefit of getting Hallday as a short term rental, versus possibly giving away the farm and the future. I think if the Phillies can swing a deal for Halladay without giving up Happ or Drabek, they will do it. But I doubt they will do a deal if they have to give up either of these two pitchers. I guess time will tell.

    TEN STRAIGHT WINS!!!!!!! :yes:
     
  13. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I sincerely doubt you could get him without giving up Happ or Drabek. Drabek especially since he was on Fernando Martinez's level as a prospect before Martinez's promotion to the bigs.
     
  14. Roman529

    Roman529 Senior Member

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    It sounds like the Blue Jay's GM is wanting a little too much at this point. It will be interesting to see who blinks first as it gets closer to the trade deadline. Looks like the Pirates gave away LaRoche to the Red Sox...no wonder the Pirates always stink. :lol:
     
  15. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    For once, I agree with Boik on this one, I probably would turn that deal down. The Mets would basically be getting one year of Halladay; 2009 is a wash at this point unless Jesus returns to earth and decides to heal Reyes and Beltran. If they could negotiate a four year extension with Halladay, then great, pull the trigger. But if the Jays aren't allowing that (why?!?), then it's not worth it. I'm pretty much against five year contracts for pitchers anyway, and when you're looking at a deal for a power pitcher that takes him into his 38th year, that's a risk I'm just not interested in taking. Even someone as durable as Halladay.

    And yeah, I'm surprised that Heyman reported absolute trash like that. Joel Sherman wouldn't surprise me, but Heyman does.
     
  16. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I think the federal government needs to step in and take over the Pirates. It's an embarrassment how they're giving away assets.
     
  17. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So what would be any different if the government took over? :shifty:
     
  18. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Nothing, but President Hopey McChange's involvement would make the media swoon and put a happier face on things. And honestly, that would be an improvement over the current state of affairs.
     
  19. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    2 in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    here we come!!!! :lol:
     
  20. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    The bats are alive and the East will be ours!!!



    And if anyone is wondering if I have been drinking today yes I have.
     
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  21. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jon Niese pitched an absolute gem last night. Hes rolling with his sub 2 era over his last 8 starts and now his fastball has a nice cut to it. I think he's ready to bust loose and become a pretty good pitcher in this league right now.

    Also, it looks like Maine's year is done. He's scheduled to see Dr. James Andrews on Weds and trips there usually mean bad news. Next year he shouldn't be relied on as anything more then a 5th starter. Bedard or preferably Lackey should be our big free agent signing this offseason. Id deal Perez for some fresh infield dirt.
     
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  22. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    I think we should cut our losses on Maine, this is the 2nd time his arm has gone dead on us and it's not like we are September, it's mid-season for christ sake. If he stays he needs to get stronger.
     
  23. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Eh as a 5th starter hes well above average. If he can work past his injuries hes high risk/high reward. You would have a 5th starter that is really a #3 starter when healthy. It would create the type of rotation depth we already lack. A 5th starter is easily replaceable; him being a 3rd starter is why the rotation is a mess right now...or at least part of the reason. If he was the final piece to a good trade i wouldnt be upset, otherwise hes worth retaining. Its the perez contract that kills us..well that and his pitching.
     
  24. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    I agree that at this point, Maine shouldn't be counted on as more than a 5th starter. He's just too brittle. Perez hasn't been too bad since he got back, but that BB rate is just ridiculous. For a little more money, we could have had Derek Lowe instead. Ugh. Alas, that contract isn't going anywhere; no one in their right mind would take it on without something just as bad coming back. The only thing to do is hope that Warthen can fix him, which I'm assuming he can't.
     
  25. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Pray with me that the D-Backs decline the 8.5M option on Webb. Santana, Webb, Perez, pelfrey, maine...goodnight :pointlol:
     
  26. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Sure. And as long as we're dreaming, I'd like to pray for a suitcase full of unmarked $100 bills to appear on my front doorstep when I get home from work.

    But Bobby Valentine's available now. Chiba Lotte won't bring him back. It's on ESPN.
     
  27. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The stars are aligned for a Bobby V's return. Combine that with Bernazard getting canned today and its been a good day for Met fans. Lately there have been few and far between. :up:
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    That good day certainly was short lived, leave it up to Omar or Jeff Wilpon to screw something else up. That press conference was a disaster.
     
  29. NJFINSFAN1

    NJFINSFAN1 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yep, Omar screwed the pooch today, he is the next one out. No need for that.
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree. He probably has the offseason to fix this mess. The pr conscious mets will dump jerry 1st.

    By the so far frenchy is batting 327 with a 327 obp as a met. 2 hour 14 rbi. The mets showed him their scouting report from when he was a brave and while he isn't walking at least he's hitting again. He may never walk much but then that is not my primary concern. That's just fyi for a couple of you :)
     
  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I wouldn't hang my hat on a sample size of 14 games and 49 at bats.
     
  32. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    Even when Omar does something right, he screws up. Wow. I don't even think Manuel is a bad manager, apart from his abysmal bullpen management. But I wouldn't mind tossing him out for Bobby V.

    I feel fairly confident that Out Machine will not continue hitting .327, though his walk rate appears to be right on target with his career numbers.
     
  33. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love the negativity. Keep it comin. Another homer tonight for frenchy. Boo hoo he doesnt walk. Walks < homers, triples and doubles. And at times singles.
     
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  34. phunwin

    phunwin Happy kids are Dolfans. Luxury Box

    OMG! Out Machine walks!!!!!11!!!

    Oh wait, it's an intentional walk after Daniel Murphy was sent up to bunt for God knows what reason.

    Your equation is correct. Only problem is that Out Machine doesn't do many of those other things that are more valuable than walks.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    The problem (besides from his beyond pathetic on base %, which factors in hits as well as walks) is Francoeur doesn't hit homers, triples, doubles and/or singles much either. His career stat lines show it (.267/.309/.425). It's nice he's having a nice 2 weeks but I hope you will call him out when he starts to struggle again. Again it's 12 games and 49 at bats, small sample size.

    You might call it negativity, I call it reality.
     
  36. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    1 walk in 13 games is pathetic. That the walk was intentional is beyond pathetic.
     
  37. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thats ok fellas. That intentional walk led to a pinch hit grand slam by the double play machine, fernando tatis. Its the first PH GS for the Mets since Todd Pratt vs Arizona.

    You can say what you want about Francoeur but the bottom line is hes hitting. Bottom line is I dont really give two cents about how much someone walks as long as they hit the ball and right now Francoeur is doing that
     
  38. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    That's fine but my only point is Francoeur is a career .267 hitter in over 2500 at bats. If you want to call me (or anyone else out) when he's having 2 good weeks you better be prepared when he doesn't. Which judging on his stat lines is working against you already.

    And for the record, I don't mind you (or anyone else) calling me out, I welcome it. I could talk baseball all day and night.
     
  39. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    First of all bro, I wasnt calling you out. We've been talking on these boards a long time and I consider you a friend as I do Phunwin. I considered it a good natured ribbing. If you took as anything else, my sincerest apologies. :hi5:

    As I documented a few pages back there were quite a few things working against francoeur in ATL. I recognize a steal when I see one and Frank Wren just got absolutely owned. If you want to argue Francoeur will always have a crappy OBP youre probably right. My argument is that if he's going to revert back to hitting 20+ homers and driving in 90+, which I believe he will its pretty irrelevant especially when you consider we gave up nothing. Also if you look at those first few years he wasnt a 267 hitter. That was before he tried adding weight to become more of a power hitter, before he had issues with braves management, and before the mets gave him the book on himself. Who knows, maybe it finally sank in when Warthen gave him the mets pitchers guide on how to pitch him. :up:
     
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  40. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Oh no not at all. I guess 'calling out' sounded harsh or were a bad choice of words but I knew it was ribbing. I consider our debates to be friendly and never got the impression it was mean spirited at all on either your side or mine. So if you thought that on my part I apologize. It's obviously hard to get a feel for tone when you read something online compared to in person or over the phone.
     
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