Bad Moon rising in Miami

I would have been afraid, very afraid to be in the locker room with Tony.

Please don't call us "fish" We're the Dolphins. I hate when other teams say squish the fish.

 

1. I'll give you the O-line last night struggled bad...they just looked plain tired IMO.

2. Henne had a rough game, so did Pennington. Henne didn't look any worse than what Pennington looked IMO.

3. Special teams had some good plays and some bad plays. I won't disagree that we need to get better at the first guy making the tackle though.

4. Street thug?? The team was struggling, our players were getting pushed around and TB was running thier mouth. The guy lost his cool for a minute, got his but chewed when he got to the sideline.

5. Everybody is going to have a bad game, the whole team looked bad last night. You can't really bash the O-Line for not doing a good job and blame the runningback at the same time. The running game struggled last night because of the blocking on the offensive line.

Personally this is what you want to see from a PRESEASON game. If you go out and everything looks great you dont know what you need to fix. You want to see where you struggle and make the corrections before the next game.

I think we learned a lot last night about needing to get some bump and run on the WR's when we are blitzing or they just throw the quick slant on us. Learned we really need some help at KR/PR. We learned how to play an ugly game, which we did a lot last year and still win. Its not all doom and gloom.

 

1)They may have done some game planning, but I'm sure their primary concern had more to do with player evaluations.

2) 3 games in 10 days separated by 2-a-days and played in a monsoon... sounds more like a gut check than a dress rehearsal.

3) the Saints game is going to give the coaches a final evaluation of the bottom of the roster before they cut it to 53... I doubt the starters play a whole quarter.

4) exactly... the coaches made their decision for what they did this game based on a chance to evaluate players in certain situations, winning was completely secondary to that... that's what preseason is for.

5) an open mind is a good thing!

 

not only did hartline start but i felt we made a very strong effort to get the ball to him. Seemed like Pennington was looking to throw it too him every time he dropped back. I have a hard time believing that wasn't premeditated.

 

You may be right, but Hartline was open most of the night so it was kind of hard for him to NOT be the target. He absolutely abused the DB who was covering him. I was surprised at how much separation he was getting.

 

Im assuming you mean the O-line. They didn't look that bad. Run blocking is still a concern. The starting unit if i recall correctly seemed to do a decent job in pass protection.

Come on, we were all happy with his performance the last two weeks, this week, in a sloppy, wet, rainy game he has a bad game and now we're in big trouble? And saying he made Beck look good? Henne made some good decisions to take sacks on some plays and not try and force an issue with the weather the way it was. Nothing wrong with that. He was off, no doubt about that. Everyone has a bad outing, its not the end of the world. Relax.

A little overboard on the comment, but yes, they didn't look that great last night.

I'll give you this one too.. tackling wasnt great out there. I don't know what it was, but we didn't look near the team on D that we did the previous 2 preseason games.

Hilliard has always been on thin ice. He's looked good, there wasnt much he could really show last night. Nobody was putting forth much of an effort out there in the 4th quarter when Lex got in the game.

Uh... I guess. I don't see us playing starters much in week 4 regardless of the outcome of last nights game. You just can't take that risk regardless.

Im not so worried, sure we didn't look that great, but its preseason. I know, its cliche, but its true. Also... we won the game! Something's gotta be said for playing that poorly, and still winning the game.

 

I'll give you neither set the world on fire; but, Pennington threw a TD. Henne threw an interception. That's a pretty big difference. Interceptions often times mean the difference between winning and losing, and Pennington throwing so few last year was a huge factor in us going 11-5.

 

Okay I don't mean this to be a personal attack on the 23rd, but this style of posting reminds me an awful lot of "slipperysoap" on Finheaven a couple of years ago.

 

I always try to be positive when it comes to Dolphin Football especially when we are talking Pre-Season. Even though I do think alot of what took place last night had to do with a hard long Training Camp..Weather Delays and tired legs..you can't help but be a little concerned about the game last night.

I am 43 years old and have been watching or following this team since I was 7 and I think that game last night was the single worst game(both teams) I have ever seen. It was TOTALLY unwatchable. Throw in the weather delays..the Refereeing and bad play...just left me with a terrible feeling. I honestly can't remember a worse game in recent memory...even going back long ago. Thank God it was just a Pre-Season game and we have a few weeks to try and improve. I do believe how bad it was will be a motivating tool for this team.

 

I didn't bother reading through this whole thread to check if anyone mentioned it already, but didn't 23rd just post a thread the other day saying how incredible the Dolphins were looking?

http://forums.thephins.com/showthread.php?t=36191

Don't be one of those guys that goes from one extreme to the next over 1 game. A preseason game at that.

 

Some pretty good qb's have been fooled by a DT backing into coverage, we do that pretty good ourselves sometimes. I saw it as a learning experience. He allowed his focus to narrow as he looked upfield and let a guy in full view become invisible. Did he swivel his head at all taking in the whole scene or was he locked on.. I couldn't tell.

...any chance you might make a gif Derek, please.

Fourth Quarter;
3-7-TB 10 (6:58) C.Henne pass short middle intended for G.Camarillo INTERCEPTED by C.Bradwell at TB 6. C.Bradwell to TB 25 for 19
yards (A.Gardner).

Anyway, you can bet he has been spanked in the film room for this, glad it happened now, and that it was returned for but 19 yards and not points.

 

what about the game at Pittsburgh in 07? Its referred to as the worst game ever played.

 

Was that the opening game of the season and Culpeppers first? I do remember the weather being bad but I do remember there were some plays made in the game. Thanks for reminding me about that one but for some reason that game last night just was god awful...on both sides

 

Aren't you a steelers fan? Do we really have to go into some of the crappy games they have played? But yet...they won....and that my friend is what matters. I dont care if we are the poorest passing team, 29th in rushing, worst defense in the league, and our LBs are all members of the YMCA fan club. W's is all I care about.

 

no, the one IN PITTSBURGH on national TV when the entire field was literally mud. the steelers won 3-0 on a FG on the last play.

 

I think he's talking about the game where we lost 3-0. John Beck was our starter that game.

 

it was just one preseason game in terrible conditions with a delay which can offset everything. We'll be fine i think

 

So sorry..I do remember now...a downright awful game..you might be right..thats the game that the punt landed and stuck in the ground?

 

I aggree that both QBs struggled last night, BUT, Henne was worse than Penny, if you would have watched the game better...

Penny- 9 comp / 16 atts (56% comp), 128 yds (8.0 YPA) 1 TD, 0 INT and 103 QBR...

Henne- 2 comp / 8 atts (25% ), 55 yds (6.9 YPA), 1 INT and 16 QBR...

Now I agree it was one Pre-season game, and 23rd is not too happy with his team's expectations... that is his opinion...

 

First off...the worst Dolphins game ever? A 62-7 playoff loss to Jax. Marino's last game. 'Nuff said.

Secondly, I personally don't have a problem with someone being passionate about their favorite team, good or bad. Rio has concerns after a very ugly game, he posts, we have a lively banter back 'n forth. Isn't that what boards like these are all about?

I too have real concerns after last night's game. It was by all accounts a very bad game for our Phins. BUT...I recognize (and accept) much of what has been said. Three games in 10 days (or 11, whatever it was), the heat/humidity/heavy rains of Florida on top of two a day's in T/C, and I can see why the team just looked flat overall. I think the coaches look for games like this in order to critique the team in general, and specific players/positions. I think they'll make decisions based on last night's game, and the team will be better for it.


Lastly, and for those that are saying "hey, we won, so what's the problem?" The problem is wins and losses in preseason don't mean jack. Sure, we're 3-0 so far this pre-season. And, that's all well and good. But, that won't mean squat on September 13th.

Rock on Rio. But, chill a little too bro. It's all good my friend. We're gonna be alright.

 

You keep saying the game was "dress rehearsal" for the season opener like that means something. It's the same thing every year. Yes, we had a game plan for what we wanted to do last night. We knew what formations we wanted to use, what coverages we wanted to show, what players we wanted to feature, etc. But, No, we did not game plan against the Buccaneers. No one was watching film this week prepping for Tampa Bay. It would be the epitome of foolishness to waste time in training camp game planning specifically against a team you're going to play in a game that doesn't matter when the more important aspect is to identify your strengths and weaknesses and make personnel decisions.

Just take the game as what it was, an exhibition, our third game in 11 days, in a heavy downpour, with a 45 minute rain delay that seemed to affect the flow of the game. We looked tired and we looked downright bad at points. But it's still pre-season. And how anyone can attempt to criticize the coaching staff at this point is beyond me. Tony Sparano was the most intense guy in the stadium last night. He doesn't care that it's pre-season. He wants it done right.

 

That was also Ricky's first game back when, Larry Foote was it, stomped on his shoulder/chest and tore his pectoral muscle. What a terrible game.

 

I think it was Timmons.

 

Brother we understand your points that you believe we are in a rebuilding process for two years. When you keep banging the same drum or tune, it may cause others to tune out as well.

 

The point I was trying to make was that you seemed to be talking about how great the Dolphins were going to be in one post, and then 3 days later after a bad pre-season game, you tear into them.

Just seems like you're going from one extreme to the other.

 

Personally I'm gonna enjoy the fact that we broke the hearts of Jets and Pats fans last year, cruise thru this season with very little expectation and wait for the off season so this FO and the fans can come back down to earth and realize that we needed to have stayed in more of a rebuild mode, rather than the same old "win now" philosophy that has mired us in mediocrity for decades now. Playing this schedule with the team we currently field, should do the trick...

I see some good things happening...........but unfortunately I believe the FO has made some poor decisions as well. Primarily, passing on Matt Ryan for Jake Long. If Henne doesn't pan out to be "the guy", that draft isn't looking so hot after all. And sorry but Pat White is far from being insurance at the QB position.



JS

 

Thank you. I noticed "the fish" is gone.

 

Every front office makes poor decisions and luckily, unlike in years past, this organization has made more right than wrong decisions. They've overhauled a roster in roughly two years and I'd say that we probably have about sixty percent of new players on the roster. I could be off on that mark but its strictly a guess and I think its probably a bit higher than the 54 or so % that it was at this time last year. One of the decisions that was made is the one that you bring up in your post above, the passing of Matt Ryan for Jake Long in the draft. I know Ryan set the league on fire last year as a newcomer and I know that everyone wishes that their favorite team had a young quarterback that's already so good. However, what I think many have to ask themselves is if Ryan makes that same impact as a Miami Dolphin in the 08-09 regular season? I'd wager a guess and say probably not. If he doesn't, do you feel the same way about him that you do right now? I'd probably guess and say you don't but I can't speak on your behalf. On to the Jake Long pick, whilst he's not a sexy pick that will be putting up an X amount of touchdowns and getting all the publicity like quarterbacks do in this league, he has arguably been as good as Ryan has at his position. Long has been very consistent and is probably already in the upper echelon of his position. However, he doesn't get recognized as much by the average fan (not implying that you are one) because he's not out there throwing touchdowns or avoiding pressure and gaining six yards on a bizarre play. I think its safe to say that most fans of the NFL that watch the game on Sundays don't focus on the offensive line. Actually, I was like that for a long time before I started realizing that I probably should watch it because its the core of the offense. Quarterbacks are probably the most important position on the field but a quarterback doesn't make that 40 yard touchdown throw if he doesn't have someone to block his blindside. Better yet, he's probably on the sidelines with a pack of ice on his *** because he got sacked from the blindside. My point is that while Jake Long doesn't stand out to you like Matt Ryan did as a rookie quarterback, he's having just a big of an impact and he's arguably playing equally as well.

If I also may add, I think that if we passed up on Jake Long for Matt Ryan then we'd be having this discussion but with regret of passing up on Jake Long because while Vernon Carey is pretty good on the left side, we may not have a very good right tackle and that would be the complaint. Also, we'd probably be saying that the Wildcat isn't probably as effective because of the offensive line and we'd also probably be saying that Ronnie Brown still isn't standing out among his peers because he's struggling to play like an elite back and put up the necessary yardage to get recognized as one.

Just my two cents, however.

 

And your two cents are just as valuable as anyone else's;]

True but it's not really about last season, surely u would trade that Division championship and that first round loss for having a true, young blue chip QB leading this team into the future? I know I would....

And I'll have to disagree on Long, I think he's very good, not great and certainly not worthy of where he was drafted or the cap space he'll require. For the kind of praise and money he gets, he should be absolutely mauling in the run game and toss speed rushers around like rag dolls. He isn't doing either....to this point.

I've heard your argument before concerning what should come first, a QB prospect or an LT to protect him. While both are at the top of any teams wish list, I see QB as being the most important position and the one you need to fill before all others. You don't build a team around a LT...


JS

 

Equal value in opinions.

That doesn't make much sense to me. Why would I get rid of success?

We feel a bit different on Jake Long's game. I think for a guy who's going to be in only his second year, he's pretty damn good. He only gave up two sacks last year, which are better than the numbers that Orlando Pace put up as a first overall pick and starter in his rookie year. I'm not comparing his career to Pace but I think Long's been pretty stellar. I also think he's fared pretty well against pass rushers. He faced Calvin Pace, Shaun Phillips IIRC, Mario Williams, and Terrell Suggs last year and was given praise for his outstanding play by not only the coaching staff but his opponents. I recall Suggs saying great things as well as the new Jets head coach, Rex Ryan, who gameplanned against Long last season.

Also, money will always be an issue with every player drafted high. In my opinion, a rookie who hasn't stepped on an NFL field yet shouldn't be paid more than a proven NFL player but that's just the way it is nowadays. Its an inflated market and the price tag is jacked every year, especially for a very high draft choice. I think for a position that's incredibly valuable on your football team, its tough to put a price tag on, especially when its probably the most important one at the rebuilding stages of your football team, which we were at the time we selected Jake Long, and we still are, despite the early success IMO.

I think you always start in the trenches. The reason is because that's where games are won in my opinion. If you have a leaky offensive line then your signal caller will struggle because he's constantly taking hits and won't be able to deliver the throws accurately nor will he be able to step into his throws due to the constant collapsing of the pocket. The wide receiver's post route or double moves won't be effective because it'll take too long to develop and your quarterback will be taking shots while he's waiting for the target to run his route. If you have a leaky offensive line then your running game will struggle and many often say that a running game is the best friend of a young quarterback because it relieves some of the pressure. Also, to continue with the importance of the offensive line, if you want to be a playoff team, you have to be able to run the ball in December and you're simply not going to do it with a struggling offensive line. To quote Herm Edwards, "you play to win the game" and honestly, I don't think you're going to achieve that goal if you don't have the core of your football team in place.

 

the phins players are tired. only that.

Too many games in too little time.

I think the FO is putting them on their limits. These guys will fly through the season. Jot it down.

 

Because that little taste we got last year had more to do with a favorable schedule and everything falling into place, than it did with the talent we fielded. We likely won't have that this year and personally I see us struggling to reach .500.

I'll take building a solid team over that little taste of success any day...

It seems like we can never actually focus on rebuilding for the future, we're too busy trying to "win now"...and I've watched this go on endlessly with this team.

Still.....the best OL in the world isn't going to take the flutter out of Penny's throws.....For me it's QB first. Our recent failures should prove that. We had an 1800 yd rusher and a top 5 defense and STILL failed to make the playoffs.


JS

 

The schedule was indeed favorable but I think it's not fair to say that was the only reason for success. We were very disciplined last year and I think we will continue to be. Maybe not at a record pace but I'm fairly confident that we will continue to be disciplined. Discipline wins you some games in this league in my opinion, just ask the Tampa Bay Buccaneers defense, which has been arguably one of the most disciplined defenses the last few years and they are arguably one of the best.

I think that's a legit outlook. The schedule is tough this year and we are still rebuilding. I think that's what many have forgotten. We are still a rebuilding team despite the immediate success.

Thing is, we are doing both simultaneously.

I think you target for both in this league. I actually think we have been pretty focused on the rebuilding stages of this team. We've seen an complete overhaul of this roster in the last year, bringing in the right guys and building inside out. We started from the trenches and then brought in the franchise quarterback, as well as a veteran quarterback to help mentor him, and then we are now slowly adding pieces to the puzzle. We've upgraded our pass rush and defensive backfield, which I think we'll see yet another infusion of younger talent in 2010. The impression I get from some fans is that they want immediate success but they don't have the patience for it. You can't do everything in one year.

The offensive line is the reason Pennington stayed healthy last year. If he gets injured last year, we don't go anywhere. Our struggles seem to have come from a lack of run game from the base offense in my opinion. If we can ever get success from there, then it'll open up everything else for us.

I'm guessing you're talking about Ricky's big year? Going to be honest with you, I didn't even pay attention to football before 2004 or so, so you got me there.

 

Based on what observations?

Who wouldn't? The thing is, we are actually doing just that. Again, what the heck are you seeing that isn't solid?

Ummmmm, its 2009, are you sure you haven't refreshed your arguments from 2000? We are a very young team being built through the draft. What exactly are you expecting?

And yet for everything you're negating, we in fact, did make the playoffs last year. Seriously, what exactly are you looking for? We drafted QBs, LT, corners, WR, have stud RBs...isn't that how you build a solid winning franchise?????