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What are your feelings on Henne????

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by 2socks, Sep 5, 2009.

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  1. GRT8

    GRT8 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I doubt that! He will see a ton of firsts this year. Many new things. Different players handle situations and challenges differently. He will make adjustments and has a very good chance to excel in this league. No one( maybe Marino ) has hall of fame written on them after their first or second year.....and certainly not after a couple pre-season games! He may be a deer in headlights right now per se', but when he is comfortable, he will be very good. I see very good talent in him. I hear he has a very tough mentality and a very good leadership abilities.
     
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  2. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Games are mostly won by using stats, positive ones at that are they not???

    I rather have a QB that produces, than looking good and not producing...I am not saying Henne will not produce...but for now he is like Sanchez, and un-like Sanchez...

    Sanchez has been told that he is starting this season, Henne has been told since the beginning of TC that he will not...

    I don't know think you can say he looked awful in the 1st 3 games... against Baltimore's D (2nd game)...yes, any rookie or any vet will do that...

    Against STL... 3/4 for 88 yds...22YA... and 116 QBR...
    Against Balt...3/8 for 43 yds... 1 TD and 1 INT...and a 56 QBR... also threw 19 yds for TD...
    Against the Giants starters... 13/20 for 149 yds...1 TD...and a 104 QBR...2 drives for TDs before the end of the half, including a throw for 31 yds TD...
    Against Philly starters...5/5 for 67 yds...1 TD...and 158 QBR...1st drive ended with a 21 yd TD throw...

    Can you tell me when Hennes stats looked consitantly this impresive at all within the last 2 Pre-Seasons???

    Right now IMO, and I am not an expert, this average starter looks better in the stats category than our future does...and not in just one game...we as Dolphin fans just don't want to see it that way...

    Maybe the "Current Average starter" is within our ranks... Hence it's Penny's job...
     
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  3. truedus

    truedus Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My only problem with Henne is that most of the time he locks onto his receiver. He doesn't look another direction first and make the safety hesitate. Perhaps he doesn't have to because of that rocket arm, but its going to cause some interceptions.
    Prove me wrong Henne. Please....
     
  4. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    My personal grade of him out of college was of an average starterm that is why I'm sticking with that.

    Just like I stuck by thinking Matt Leinart was a terrible pro QB, and that Reggie Bush would never be a good pro style running threat. Just like I stick by my mistakes too, like thinking Vince Young would develop into a good passer.

    I havent seen anything that would change my initial opinion of Sanchez.


    You'll have to find where I said Henne looked better or was our future for sure. I've been criticizing his play actually. I like his physical skills better than Sanchez though.
     
  5. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know you have criticized Henne, Alex...

    I was just stating that you see Sanchez as an averge starter, and that he looked good only in his last game of the Pre-Season... that is your opinion and its fine with me...

    I was showing that he has looked rather good in all but 1 game this Pre-Season, that being against the Ravens... and he actually threw a TD pass in that one...

    I know that he has mis-fired in a few TDC opportunities, but overall he has looked impressive for a rookie QB...

    a lot more impressive than Henne after 2 TC and Pre-Seasons...

    I hate to say this, because I hate the Jets as much as anyone here...

    We should be thankfull that our FO has tried to build a Pass-Rushing front 7... We will need them even for a rookie QB...
     
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  6. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    The thing about his last game is that he only threw five passes. There have been a lot of five pass superstars, so I tend to throw games like that away.

    Other than that he has shown good and bad, but nothing that would make me throw away my entire analysis of him. I could be wrong for sure, I'm not the type of guy that claims to know everything about a prospect or ask people to turn to me :lol:

    I see your point, and it's a good one. I just think people are getting a little too excited a little too early. Like when Matt Leinart came in I believe against....the Bears? He had a pretty good game, but at the same time it didnt change what he was as a a QB in my eyes.
     
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  7. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well us Phins fans would not like get to excited about anything in Jets land...if you know what I mean...:up:

    But did you know that neither Flacco or Ryan had any resemblence to Sanchez's stats during their rookie Pre-Season???

    Both Ryan and Flacco had similar QBR to Henne's first Pre-Season. They actually were worst... mid to hig 60's... and we all know how they performed last year...

    It kind of makes me giddy of Sanchez, and not in a good way, as a Phin's fan...:no:
     
  8. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Henne has only two flaws in his game as far as I see right now.

    1) Pocket presence. This is not a total disaster area. Prior to last year's draft this was my biggest gripe with him and thought that this would be the make or break factor in his development. Having watched him for two preseasons now I feel comfortable saying that his pocket presence wont break him but it may prevent him from being elite.

    What does Henne do well in the pocket?

    a) He is fearless. He will wring out every last millisecond to let his receiver get open even if it means getting smashed.

    b) He doesnt panic. When he realizes he's going to get sacked he doesnt freak out and try to run around like a chicken without a head. He secures the ball and takes the sack to play another down.

    c) pretty good at gauging the pressure directly in front of him. Has a good feel for feeling how effective the pressure is from guard to guard. Will settle in and scan the field when he feels the guards and center have things under control and will tuck it when things breakdown

    d) is decent at feeling front side pressure from the tackle side. Once again is ok with pressure that is in his line of vision. Might have a slight issue with judging the speed that OLBs and DEs can get to him but he does see them

    What Henne doesnt do well in the pocket

    a) backside pressure. This area is an F. If he has an achilles heel this is it. This is not enough of a negative to make him a bust but it can keep him from being in the elite. He has absolutely zero feel for things breaking down behind him. I havent played QB but I suspect hearing plays an important part in sensing backside pressure. I dont know if he doesnt sense it because of how zoned in he is to whats going on downfield (which is what I suspect) or if he just doesnt pay attention to the subtle clues that happen in a pocklet that something may be wrong. The one positive I see from his problems here is that I dont get the sense that he fumbles easily when blindsided. He will lay it on the turf but only once in a while and when youre talking about blindisde hits that at least is a positive

    b) Throwing it away -almost forgot - Henne definitely needs to learn better judgement about when to just throw it away. I think thats what I'll look from him next year. He needs to gauge the amount of time he has in the pocket when pressure is bearing down. Right now I think his problem is he doesnt know how much time to give his receivers to get open. Once he has more familiarity with them and with the speed of defensive players you will see this area improvge

    Now I'll get to the second thing he has to improve

    2) big play accuracy. During the course of a game a QB is going to have a handful of plays when things break down defensively and an opportunity presents itself to make a big play. A corner slips, a safety bites, etc.. What I have seen from him so far is that he misses a little too many of these plays. Marino was the master at this. If you had one mistake you paid dearly. With Henne it seems you can make some mistakes and its not neccesarily the case that you will pay. I would like to see him become more money on those two three plays a game where a big play is possible. This is another area that will not keep him from being good but it will keep him from being great if it doesnt improve. Could repetition fix it? Rookie nerves? We will see


    One thing I dont see as a flaw, is him locking on receivers as some here seem to feel. What I am seeing from him this year is a fantastic grasp of where on the field he is supposed to go. His read recognition has improved dramatically IMO. He does look off the primary receiver when he's covered and goes through his progressions. What he still doesnt do and most 2nd year QBs dont is bait the defenders by looking in a different direction. That usually comes with time however so I'm not worried about it at this stage and dont consider it a flaw for a 2nd year QB. A 4tth year yes not a 2nd.
     
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  9. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I'll probably get knocked bad for this, but Henne reminds me of Byron Leftwich. Except with better accuracy and a much quicker release.
     
  10. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    why would you get knocked. a leftwhich with accuracy is a scary thing :lol:
     
  11. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I've seen how down some people here are on Byron, who I actually like. I'm not going to say Henne has superior accuracy to him, but it is "better". Also the release is big.

    The comparison I see is both will stand there in the pocket, and won't move. Will use their arm to make some extremely tough throws, and on occasion give you a fit and make a boneheaded play.
     
  12. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Gotcha but its almost like saying this QB reminds me of Jeff George but with brains :lol:
     
  13. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    :lol: That is a fair point.

    It's just when I see Henne standing there in the pocket like a statue....waiting....waiting....waiting.....it just reminds me of Leftwich. Or even Bledsoe. Pocket presence wise. Those are just the comparisons that pop into my mind.
     
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  14. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    actually good comparisons. he does remind me a bit of bledsoe (parcells connection probably) and i think if he doesnt get a better feel for pressure thats who he may become but for a 2nd year QB I'm not worried. Thats what I expect to improve next year and what I will be looking for
     
  15. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I think he's improved a lot since last year in that aspect, he just has a little more to go. I think they are trying to compensate for it with that three second buzzer. If he can't feel the pressure, then put it into his mind that it will be there and he may get the ball out sooner.
     
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  16. Disnardo

    Disnardo Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They have had that buzzer for 2 TCs in a row...

    Maybe the 3rd TC is the charm...

    So the question a pose earlier...maybe in another Thread is...

    Would any of you be OK with a Henne starting as an average starter and not an elite starter...
     
  17. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I think he'll be slightly above average given his skillset. When I think about the guys I just compared him to, I think of guys that can win games if you put the right pieces around them. I have no problem with Henne being a solid starter instead of a superstar.
     
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  18. GRT8

    GRT8 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I am glad you have a good track record. I wouldn't know anything about that:knucks:
     
  19. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I dont know about good :lol: more just saying I'll stick by my original thoughts. I could very easily be wrong.
     
  20. RickyNeverInhaled

    RickyNeverInhaled Well-Known Member

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    i think its obvious that pennington has trained henne b/c he's been playing like him lately. he's been making a lot of short, safe, high percentage plays. i haven't really seen henne let loose yet, but i know he's capable of it. i like the fact that he's mirroring pennington's game b/c when its henne's time, we won't skip a beat. And we'll be a little better b/c of henne's arm strength.
     
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say- maybe it's not a "lack of pocket presence" but quite possibly an abundance of confidence from having his blind side proteceted by the Long monster for the past few years.

    Maybe he just needs to be thumped a few times in full contact to wake up....a little classical conditioning so to speak- "waiting too long= helmet in the spine, and helmet to the spine=pain!! LOL
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  22. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    That's an interesting theory. It's possible he has become expecting, and needs to be knocked out of it.
     
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  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    The deep routs and timing involved will come in time as Henne develops a stronger rapport with his young receivers (remember he's not seeing nearly as many reps as if he were the starter). Montana to Rice didn't happen over night. ;)
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  24. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I hear what your saying but there is a certain amount of natural things that must be present in order to be really good. These are the intangibles that can not be taught. If it was that easy we would have premier QB's a lot more then we do.

    The question is what are the intangibles and does Henne possess them??

    An example would be Dan's ability to slide 2 feet up to avoid the pressure he couldn't "see" but could feel. He was the absolute master at avoiding the sack with little to no movement. To this day no one can do it as effortlessly as Marino did!!!!
     
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  25. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I loved Marino, but as great as his arm and pocket presence were, his ability to disguise the run and play-action was somewhat pitiful. LOL. If Henne can display half of Dan's pocket presence while allowing us to run a controlled, balanced offense behind our billion dollar OLine, then I'd be perfectly happy. But that's just me, Socks. :D
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  26. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    you didn't address weather you thought he processes the intangibles
     
  27. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    No player has every single intangible. Well maybe some do but they are that once every decade plus, type of talent.

    What Henne has is the ability to make throws other players can't, and stand in the pocket and deliver the ball with poise.
     
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  28. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    what intangibles do you see Henne pocessing??
     
  29. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    A rocket arm, the ability to stand in the pocket and not get jittery.

    Bottom line is whether your a hater or a lover, your not going to prove anything until he starts taking regular snaps in real snaps.
     
  30. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Quick release, good mechanics, strong arm, fearless, those type of things that cant be taught.
     
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  31. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I love the guy .....he's a Dolphin. Just not convinced he is the next coming of Dan Marino.

    He seems okay to me ...nothing special. I am all for giving him a chance to learn. When does that turn end though. Is he good enough to step in like Matt Cassell did for New England??

    I don't know the answers to these questions because I live in Atlanta and I don't get the chance to see him in practice like a lot of you guys do. They don't even talk about The Falcons here that much less alone the Phins.....so I am relegated to what I read here and what I can get from any number of web sites.

    There are a ton of knowledgeable people on this board and collectively I am getting the impression most are unsure, some are hopeful and a few are convinced we are fine at this very important position.
     
  32. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    Like I said earlier, to me he is a better version of Byron Leftwich.
     
  33. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I don't know if that is a good or bad thing.

    Is Byron gonna win the starting job in Tampa????
     
  34. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I actually like Byron. You give him protection and he will win you games. He generally makes smart decisions, it's just his bad mechanics that hold him back.

    Henne has good mechanics, quicker release, won't take as many sacks.
     
  35. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Well...in my opinion Chad Henne is not only going to be a very good starter...he will be one of the top 5 in the next three years.

    Ill try and give you my reasons why...but some of it honestly...is my gut feeling.

    What I see from Henne is a guy who has obviously been a starting QB his whole life. His demeanor, his confidence, and his coolness on the field are all marks of a good field general. You wont see Henne get rattled...alot of people have been harping on his one bad pre season game. That game was a bomb from the get go..so trying to read any tea leaves from that is almost ludicrus. He's ranged from very solid..to very good in his other games....and I especially liked his bounce back ability...he has shown the ability to move on after making a bad play...

    Henne has the rare ability to making a great play...seem almost non chalant. Some of his throws..as was pointed out by CK earlier in the preseason...look like your average pass. Until you realize how far on a rope it was...how much actual yardage the ball carried....he makes a 20 yard throw look easy.

    Most importantly, he has handled himself with maturity, and has really dug into learning behind Chad Pennington. That shows the mark of a player who not only knows he will be a leader, but wants to.

    I have no doubt what so ever...this kid is going to be a star. If he had to step in tomorrow...he'd be one heck of a QB.
     
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  36. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

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    I like him as a player,but to say he is our future Qb is total bs....


    I see our team still looking after this pick and this year pick meaning white,,, :shifty:
     
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  37. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member


    Ok, why don't you think he's capable ?? Give us some insight ??
     
  38. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I feel your pain, Socks...I live in Charlotte area and all we hear about is NASCAR. At any rate...

    If you look at what he did the 2008 offseason/TC and the little we saw him during last season and compare that to the player we saw this offseason/preseason, it's obviously two different people. The guy is much more confident and his passes have a lot of authority. There wasn't a 'competition'. That's fine. Tony had decided early on this offseason that he was going into this season with Penny and that makes sense. It wasn't all that long ago that backup and young QBs sat for a couple, three years before they pushed for the starting jobs. As a result, they were much better prepared for action once it came to them than guys like Carr, Harrington, even Brees and Eli, Edwards, Russell, Young, etc... Some guys never recover from being thrown in too early... Henne, when the time comes for him will then have to prove he's capable, but there has been a vast improvement from this guy from one year to the next. We won't and usually don't see it because of the fact that we have Penny. It's funny, after having years of poor QB play (from the #3 guy to the starter), it's almost like we're looking for controversy with Henne because he hasn't snatched the job from Penny...any way you look at it, it's not a critical issue for us right now, but the appearances from the staff are that Henne is doing just fine where he's at...
     
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  39. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

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    Im nobody to judge,just didnt really see anything in the preseason to make me think otherwise.
     
  40. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I think anybody who says they know Henne is going to be great is deluding themself a little bit. I also believe anyone who says they know he is going to fail is doing the same.

    He showed some good and bad, honestly he came out of preseason looking better than last year but not amazing overall. Even in his good games he had some problems that didn't hurt him then, but will in the future. He still looks like a solid prospect, but that is all he is at this point....a prospect. If he looks equally improved next season, we have ourselves a player. The fact is though we can't guarantee he will. We can't say for sure where the ceiling on his talent lies.
     

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