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Dolphins' Ted Ginn laments missed chances against Indianapolis

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BuckeyeKing, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    And I'm not alone.....according to most ppl out there, it's Teddy that's taking being soft to a whole new level
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    In fairness to Ginn, rarely does he receive the ball in stride to pick up YAC, in fact he also averaged 9.7 ypc which is really low.
     
  3. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, I'm pretty sure it's you taking it to a whole new level. We've seen Teg Ginn Jr take a hit, and still bounce back up. The man can take a hit. He just chooses not to because it is smarter to not take a hit.
     
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  4. Bumrush

    Bumrush Stable Genius Club Member

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    I find it funny that some of you have compared him to Chambers. :cursing:


    Chambers was known for either slowing down as the ball goes airborne, or being out of position and the letting the DB or Safety make the INT or bat the ball down. Ginn did everything right. He was in the proper position, leaped for the ball while having his shoulder grabbed, and almost came down with a miracle catch.

    To compare him to Chambers who flat out gave up on plays is obscene, and to bash him for not making a David Tyree type catch is downright offensive.
     
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  5. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    lol...come on Padre

    You watch the games, tell me you see any kind of extra effort for yardage or to break free from a tackle or anything other than trying to keep from getting hit?

    And yeah his YPC is low......it's gonna be when out of 134 yds, you have ONE yard of YAC

    Right?.............right?...lol
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Chicken or Egg, Bess and Greg C catch balls in stride in the middle of the field, Ginn plays on the edge and 95% of the time the Db plays off and Ginn has a turn around and catches the ball with his back to the Db making it even more unlikely he will bust one.
     
  7. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    As one who does not like to talk bad on Chambers. I do believe that Chambers would of dropped one if not two of those 3rd down catches.
     
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  8. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    I agree with the first part; Chambers was an embarrassment, Ginn does at least make the effort.

    But yes, he deserves the criticism for not making those two catches in the end zone.

    The way some of you think, it's like if a guy helps an old lady across the street he doesn't have to answer for stealing her purse once they're across.

    Ginn put up good stats? Bully. Jolly good.

    But he still has to answer for leaving 14 points on the ground.
     
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  9. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    :up: you got it Nabo !

    we can debate TGs 'style' all day long ... i for one would be happy if he only caught 1 pass every game ... for a TD. this is old news, but we didn't draft him to be a possession receiver.

    he's a finesse receiver ... it's really hard to refute that.

    thing is ... he won't, can't change that ... it's not something you can change.

    not saying he can't get better at what he is ... but how much better can he really get, since his game is speed ... his route running is improved; so i ask -- what can he really get better at.

    additionally, really not sure how much Henne is going to help him at this point. he 'may' be more able to hit him in stride ... but ...
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mos def Padre, as long as were seeing improvement from the player, iam good, his pace is better this year.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    11-5 really skews views of players Dj, the phins are expected to compete this year so "good" is no longer "good enough".
     
  12. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Destroy, bench or cut him?.....no

    Replace him as our number 1 WR?.....as dj would say "mos def"
     
  13. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Only with an upgrade though, not just for the sake of change.
     
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  14. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    If you look at it in a coldly analytical way though, Pete, what do we lose by replacing him with, say, Bess, and promoting Camarillo or Hartline to #2?

    Ted Ginn is touted as being fast, but doesn't give us that speed on the field; he's supposed to give us a big-play threat, but when does that actually happen? And as the #1, he is supposed to be counted on to win the game for you when you need it - but Monday night he showed that he doesn't.

    On the other hand, Bess is downgraded for not giving us YAC...but then, Ginn doesn't either - so what would we lose?
     
  15. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Absolutely....we start looking next off season as I don't see anyone on the current roster that fits the bill. Not gonna be easy, they don't grow on trees.....I'd just like to see the FO come to the understanding that they don't currently have one and keep looking.
     
  16. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    Maybe because our quarterback cant throw more than 15 yards without the ball starting to quack? not saying to get rid of pennington but it you are gonna start saying Ginn isnt a deep threat or fast you need to pay more attention to him.

    If you replace Ginn with hartline or Bess, you will have 9 guys in the box everytime, cause then you dont even need to worry that there is even the slightest chance that someone can get behind your safeties and get a big gain.
     
  17. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    As our offense stood on monday night, you don't lose anything IMO. I mean swapping Bess or Cam with Ginn doesn't really have an effect on how a team plays us, just switches which side of the field the safety favors. Not to mention we rotate our WRs a lot as it stands, so they'd all get pretty similar snaps anyway.

    See this is not exactly something I put on Ginn. You can see the speed on the field, he gets separation. So do our other WRs based on accounts of people in the stands, but I think it is honestly more issue of the QB that there aren't as many big plays as there could be (Ginn had a chance at 2 Monday that he didn't make, so I am not arguing that, just overall I mean).


    I agree that you want/need your #1 to make that game-winning play, but I don't know that going 0-1 shows that he won't make that play more often than not. I hate to say it, but the jury is still out in that regard IMO. He has converted a couple 3rd and 4th downs that we absolutely needed to stay in games (or secure drives), so he does make plays. I like you, want to see him make those TD plays the next time he gets the chance though, because chances like that haven't been very frequent with this team.

    See, I actually expect Bess to get more YAC in our current situations, because (if I can borrow a line from Boomer) "Bess can get open in a phone booth." Ginn doesn't have Bess' shiftiness and in order to utilize his speed he needs some better throws.

    We don't lose much with Bess as #1 and Ginn as #2 (as I said above), because it doesn't really change the team.

    In order to demote Ginn and have it really alter the playing field, we need the #1 to be someone who isn't currently in the line-up. Whether that is Patrick Turner, or an acquisition that has yet to be made, I don't know.

    I think Ginn can be a #1, just like Cotchery is and Lee Evans is/was. No he's not Fitz or AJohnson, and he will never be a #1 like that. He can put up very good/great numbers if in the right situation though, especially with his route running improvements. But if we want better #1 play than what Ginn gives, I absolutely think it's got to come from someone not in the lineup right now (so that means no Cam, Bess, or Hartline). I mean we might not lose anything with Ginn as #2, but I don't think that is because of what Ginn doesn't bring to the table, or something the other 3 do.
     
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  18. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I think Ginn can be a very good #1, but I too hope they look to upgrade the position.
     
  19. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    from what i interpreted Nabo as saying is that he is asking what would we lose if BEss was the #1 receiver and you replaced ginn with hartline or camirillo.
     
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  20. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Oh, I obviously didn't take it like that.

    Well if Ginn is off the field, we lose a defender outside the box. Our WRs really don't scare anyone outside of Ginn. I absolutely believe that. I am sure most teams even think that you can take Ginn out of the game by rolling a safety his way. In the past that may have been true, but his route running is honestly like night and day from last year, and that will no longer prevent him from getting open.

    If the other 3 are the main 2 WRs playing it will be 9 in the box 75% of the time.
     
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  21. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I will say I am not looking forward to the Jets game. Unless we establish the run game, I really think our offense has no chance. Unless we move Ginn around, I don't think he can beat Revis enough for Penny, and I don't care for any of our other matchups aside from the RBs out of the backfield.
     
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  22. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Right...but we can't affect that at this point; so dealing with what we have, I believe that demoting Ginn from the starting lineup wouldn't affect us one bit, given that judging by what Ginn has given us to this point, we lose NO capabilities by replacing him with Bess - and, actually, we could gain something in Bess's sure-handedness in the clutch.

    :lol: Teams are already allocating as many as 9 guys around the LOS against us because we can't pass long and they know it; additionally, because even when we run the Wildcat they know that 90%+ of the time it will be a run.

    They can't possibly stack the box against us anymore than they do now; and having a sure-handed guy like Bess and a big body like Hartline as a threat on every down might just force them to cover rather than just stack if we have any success in the intermediate passing game early in games.
     
  23. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    so you want us to demote our best receiver, the only person we have that can stretch the field in any way what so ever, because he dropped a jump ball at the end of a game in which he got 11 receptions for over 100 yards and you figure meh, what could it hurt to replace him with a rookie who has had a grand total of 4 receptions and an offensive pass interference call thus far in his professional career?
     
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  24. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Yes, that exactly what I would do; although not in the context that you state.

    Again, I go back to the analogy of doing good things NOT excusing a bad act; Ginn could have - SHOULD HAVE won the game for us - NOT ONCE, but TWICE in the end zone, and failed miserably. You can minimize that, but I won't.

    There have to be consequences for that, or everyone just plays however the hell they want and if they fail the team - oh, well, they're talented, what can you do?

    Besides..."our best Receiver"? Really?

    What's the point of playing the game? Stats? Or winning?

    Because Ted Ginn does NOT help us win any more than Bess or Camarillo.

    He CANNOT be counted upon in the clutch - he proved that on Monday night.

    He deserves to be put in a position to succeed, not fail; and a role off the bench would help him accomplish that.

    I'm not suggesting anything extreme; starters lose their jobs EVERY DAY across the NFL - why shouldn't Ginn?!
     
  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Simply because his speed offers the offense cheap first downs, Ginn gives us "gimmie" plays, he is the only offensive player who can do that for us.

    Sad but true.
     
  26. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    Padre, but people keep saying this and there is no actual evidence that it is true!

    If he's that speedy that he makes teams worry, then why are they stacking the box with as many as 9 guys sometimes, and with 8 guys routinely?

    If Ginn REALLY made them worry, they simply couldn't do that; and if they were so bold, and what is being said about Ginn's speed and projected playmaking ability was true, he'd be making them pay by winning games for us - not with pointless stats and no YAC!
     
  27. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    The Colts were terrified of playing up close against Ginn. He had a huge cushion every time. I would also like to point out that those two TD's that Ginn didn't get, Bess isn't good enough to even put him in a position to try and make those plays. And please tell me what clutch catch has Davone Bess ever made?
     
  28. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    I prefer RESULTS rather than talk...Great players can back up that talk..pretenders continue to talk with no/same results
     
  29. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Ginn didn't miss two game winning TD catches, far from it. The 1st TD was in the 2nd QTR. At the time there is no way to be sure that wins the game for us, and there is no telling how it affects the rest of the game if he does catch it. We could've ended up losing by 20.

    And his 4th down catch on the last drive was clutch, the game ends for us right there if he doesn't catch it. So he absolutely can be clutch IMO.

    And he is our best WR imo.

    As for losing his starting job, like I said, I don't actually think him not "starting" yields him many less snaps. So I don't really see the point in it overall personally.
     
  30. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    again, i am with Nabo ....

    it's not an issue of liking or not liking TG ... it is an issue of performance, and bang for the buck on the field. he gets kudos for the catches and yardage MON ... won't deny that. but really, with a big cushion -- how hard is it to come back and catch a ball when your open. make a tough catch in traffic, break a tackle and get some YAC ... that is what TG is not doing.

    again, that is not his game ... he is Terry Glenn ...

    now, is that his fault ... heck no ... is it his fault he was drafted top 10 ... heck no ... is it his fault, as a result of that - we expect much more ... heck no ... but it is what it is, just as he is what he is ...

    but Nabo is right ... defenses are giving him a cushion to operate, since he is our only deep 'threat' ... but i won't say that they are accounting for him on the field. so, to take him off the field, would there really be a difference in the way defenses approach us ... as Nabo says ... i don't think so ...

    of course there is a piece to the puzzle that belongs to CP and his inability to hit TG in stride ... got it, but that can't be fixed ... and until we were to fall out of playoff contention, there won't be a change at QB ...

    soooo, it comes down to -- what can TG do on the field right now to help us win games outside of being a fast possession receiver ?
     
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  31. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    But he beats Brady Quinn hands down!!:yes::tongue2:
     
  32. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Lets see if I have this right; everyone is po'ed because our #1 fast WR dropped a 47 yard pass from our noodle armed QB who can't pass that far anyway. I mean why are we upset about that, Teddy was as suprised as the rest of us that it got there in the first place.:lol::lol::lol:

    BTW none of us can run that fast or throw that far yet we blame those that can when they fail to be perfect. Remember the best Batter that ever was only hit .405 for one season. Or even better just how many balls have Fitz and Moss dropped this season?

    IMHO it will take Ted only one pass, run in for a TD, to shut up the ney sayers.
     
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  33. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    How in the hell do know if Ginn catches the first pass Miami wins?
     
  34. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    7 1st down conversions on 3rd and fourth down arent clutch? or is it not clutch because you decide it isnt clutch? 1 play is going to decide whether or not a player is clutch or not for his entire career? we dont know if he is clutch or not because he has a very small sample size with which to measure. He was clutch last year against the Jets when we needed him to be, he was for most of the game against the colts, he wasnt in the last play, so therefore he is garbage when it counts. Perfect logical development.

    and yes, Ginn is our best receiver. He is our most talented receiver, and the only receiver we have that can get open deep any kind of consistently, and to boot he is the only receiver on the team that makes the other receivers any better, Bess isnt gonna drag a safety with him, neither is camirillo, or fassano or hartline, Ginn does , and that he does on a consistent basis.

    He had 11 receptions for over 100 100 yards, you dont bench him just because you dont think hes lived up to his billing as the 9th pick in the draft.

    and even if he hasnt(still too early to judge that) just because an UFA and a 5th rounder are better than where they were picked up says they should be, that doesnt mean they are better than the 1st roudner who hasn't lived up to a top 10 billing.

    Ginn is better than Hartline, this isnt even debatable, so why are gonna bench him Nabo? Because we are knee jerking off of one play in a game in which that same receiver is the damn reason we even had an opportunity to win it at the end.
     
  35. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    or was it those 239 yds rushing?
     
  36. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    combination of the two
     
  37. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    I'm afraid it'll take more than his FIFTH career TD reception...

    Ginn will make some plays, maybe even score a few TD's. We still need to find a better receiver.
     
  38. TheMageGandalf

    TheMageGandalf Senior Member

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    Nope.

    Whats that saying?

    Even a blind squirrel will find an acorn now and then.
     
  39. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Eh, I don't know that we need to, but I hope we do nonetheless.
     
  40. Dannyg28

    Dannyg28 Say hi to the rings

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    i was commenting on the fact he caught most,if not all, of the balls in that final 2 minute drill that got us first downs to get us anywhere near the end zone.
     

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