In particular ME? Find where I called him a bust.....find where i made any comments where you won't find the same thing all over the internet. There's ppl on here being far more harsh on him than I am. I've never said cut him, he's a bust, he sucks and etc.... I've spent plenty of time explaining myself and giving the reasons for my opinion of him. You're harsh criticism of me is more unfounded than mine of Ted Ginn... I said he's soft.....I said he's not a number one and he needs to be replaced in that capacity. I will admit to taking shots at him for kicks, he's just too easy of a target. Ted "Sniper in the stands" Ginn Ted Ginnvisble Teddy Sidelines Ted "He's touching ME!" Ginn See how much fun that is?..lol But seriously.....you think he's 'fine"? How on earth could you think that?
i'm down jdang, i would certainly like to see more production from ginn but some days the ball doesn't come your way or the game plan utilizes other players. he's fast and commands attention. we had a new qb making his first nfl start and ginn had a piss poor production day as a reciever,,, ok with me really, we won right? if ginn can't produce as the season progresses then i think yes its time to go a different direction, but so far ginn seems willing to work hard and has honest desire to be the best, those are great attributes. henne has the arm strength to make ginn a legit deep threat and we need to see it as the season progresses and the entire team adjusts to him (henne) as the leader of the offense. i'm still pretty optimistic for ginn this season, we are pounding the ball in the run game which teams will have to bring help up to stop, he will get matchups and he has to take advantage, plain and simple. he had some good games last season and has improved steadily, not quickly, but imo steadily. i'm not giving up on him yet.
I love how the main defense on here is the D didnt do there part. I'm pretty sure the title of this thread is Ginn Jr. the man for the deep passing game. The thread is about Ginn and his pros and cons. And so far the cons out wiegh the pros by a long shot. He has a what 140 yards and 0 TDs in 4 weeks? Thats terrible! He has 4 rec. tds in his career! Come on! This article explains it all.. http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/09/22/coach-killer-week-2-ted-ginn-jr/
I know we won...and that is great, but I still have concern for the rest of the season with him. Our run game will eventually get stopped, then what?
I think what you'll see is a number one WR by committee approach from now on and Ginn back on returns again... Look for more of Hartline and maybe even the eventual appearance of Turner...
Maybe..IDK...I thought Turner looked pretty good in preseason, but thats preseason. Who knows it took this long for Wake to make an appearance maybe we will see him soon.
We have have a committee approach for every position on offence, even QB. This number one WR stuff is a myth. There are less than 10 WRs in the league that meet the requirment for it. Ted Ginn is a special player that makes the team and our offence better. There is a post in the club level that breaks down the first two year statistics of all WRs selected in the first round over the last decade and he is firmly in the top 1/3rd of that group. As Henne gets more comfortable he will start to shine as much as any WR can in our run first, second, and some times third offence. I swear we have the most Bi-polar fan base. If he isn't HOF then he must suck. If he catches a TD he is canton bound, he drops it and he needs to be cut. This is meant as a general comment and not directed at any specfic poster.
in no particular order: Randy Moss Calvin Johnson Ocho Cinco Brandon Marshall Steve Smith Reggie Wayne Plaxico Burress Desean Jackson Santonio Holmes or Hines Ward Roy Williams (?) T.O. Vincent Jackson Lee Evans Larry Fitzgerald there's a few more than 10 right off the top of my head that I'd rather have at #1 in Miami. Posted via Mobile Device
GinnJr boon or bust in 2009 step up or step away he needs to get it together now the guy has become the highest paid invisible man in the NFL I don't think he has the heart to play the sport @ this level am more concerned with Patrick Turner & Pat White's development @ this stage of the game let GinnJr prove me wrong or let him try out for the Olympics. he's wasting time & money in Miami got to step up now
1. Not one of those is starting his third year with a third different QB in three years throwing him the ball. 2. You've got Brady, and Romo, and Palmer, and Roethlisberger, and Peyton Manning, and Kurt Warner as QB's throwing them the ball. It's crqzy to comoare Ginn's production in our offense, with the QB's we've had, to these receivers in their offenses with HoF QB's tossing them the ball. Give me a break. Posted via Mobile Device
Brian Hartline is already our best all around WR. He is the fastest after Ginn but is taller, bigger, much tougher and can be counted on to make hard catches. It is no accident that we called on him to make the touchdown catch.
GinnJr: no more excuses time to step up & play for the pay he's not a 7th draft pick third year is more than enough time he will not be here in 2010, if he doesn't make his bones in 2009 we need the Franchise WR threat, the rest can catch by committe
That is the most overused and lamest excuse ever as to why Ginn doesn't produce. Does the QB have anything to do with Ginn being able to get open? Does the QB have anything to do with GInn dropping passes that hit him in the hands, hit him in the chest, or if Ginn "thinks" he is close to out of bounds so he gives up on the play? When Dan Marino injured his achilles tendon, his receivers didn't stop catching the ball because they didn't have a HOFer throwing passes. This is the same old *** argument that existed when Chambers was around. It was wrong then just as it is wrong now. If a guy is a scrub, he is a scrub. I too want Ginn to become successful, but to say he hasn't really had a chance is ridiculous. Compare Ginn's career to any one of those guys' first 2-3 seasons and then reply back with how it is the QB's fault. By the way, Desean Jackson is in his second year....and doing quite well I might add. BTW Stitches, laugh all you want. Plaxico Burress will still be better in 2 years when he gets out of jail than GInn is now. I didn't make the post saying that we should go out and get one of those guys, but every one of those guys is better than Ginn, like it or not. There are quite a few more guys out there that are better than Ginn also..not just on that list.
I never said Plax wasn't a better WR than Ginn, but it's ******ed to want a guy as your #1 when he can't even get onto the field. I'll take the guy who at least has a chance at catching passes over the guy who isn't even allowed to buy a ticket to a game.
Plaxico Burress? I bet you $100 Ginn gets more yards than Burress the next two years. Lee Evans? 148 yards so far. Terrell? 158. What's their excuse? Why do they get that excuse, but not Ted? Why is our leading receiver only at 157 yards? Do we blame the receivers, or the QB, or the system, or the passing offense as a whole? You guys fail to see the forest for the trees.
Umm....no, we don't. We have back ups at most spots and sometimes we rest ppl, even rotate some positions, but no we have starters......number one guys. And before you insinuate diff, Ted Ginn was the number one WR since the day they traded Chris Chambers. That's a lot of "myths", that actually exist He contributes now and then would be a much better description of Ted Ginn And it's likely just more excuses.....like the way you ended that with "run first, run second and sometimes third offense".......That run first offense, with the leagues leading rushing attack? Is being wasted on the likes of Ted Ginn Jr.......he doesn't have the talent to take advantage of the play making opportunities that rushing game provides. We get a real play maker, scoring threat on this team and you guys are going to see just how average Ginn really is. It's no worse than being delusional enough to think that Ted Ginn is a "special player"
OH, and I have to add Vincent Jackson. The WR who locals were callling a bust since he didn't break out until his 4th year. Lovely double standards.
so apparently our defense isn't getting any credit from you now since we shut down both of those guys on Sunday. (with each one of them making a big catch deep down the sideline btw) Are you trying to tell me that Ginn is better than T.O. or Evans? and for the 2nd time already in 2 posts, I'm not saying that I would rather have Burress. But he is better than Ginn, anad will be when he gets out of jail. FFS, I'm not hoping we get rid of the guy, but he sure is a huge disappointment thus far in his short career. (and that is only because we reached so high for him at #9 overall, which is not the guy's fault at all)
QB doesn't matter? QB doesn't help a receiver get open? Are you kidding me? The QB certainly helps the receiver get open. When you have a QB that can make all the throws, the defense can't just sit on the short stuff like they did to Pennington. Ginn was open frequently downfield, but Pennington couldn't throw it. Also, you can't have all your receivers running short routes...so, who our team is a deep threat? Ginn. So, who runs the deep routes? Ginn. Our other receivers got to run short routes...routes that Pennington was comfortable throwing to. As to the receivers first couple years...WHO WAS THROWING THEM THE BALL?* If it was Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, or Warner, then it's no comparison. There are many factors into Ginn's "lack" of production, but him sucking isn't one of them. By the way, ALL of those receivers listed earlier have all dropped game changing passes in the NFL...yet they still turned out pretty good. Posted via Mobile Device
So you're telling me that Roethlisberger helps Ward and Holmes get open. How exactly? How does Manning help out Wayne or Dallas Clark? I'll even ask how a rookie QB like Matt Ryan was last year, how des he help to get Roddy White open downfield? He doesn't. It's all up to the skill and knowledge of said receiver. I particularly think the problem with Ginn is that he doesnt have a great veteran WR to learn from on our team. You look at most great receivers in this league and you will notice that they all started with a very good veteran WR to learn from playing right along side them. Moss had Carter Wayne had Harrison Plaxico and Holmes had Ward Holt had Bruce Steve Smith had Mushin Who does Ginn have to learn from? That was probably why Chambers didn't do better in his career than what he potentially could have done. I so wish that Chris Carter would become a WR coach for us. Chambers seemed to do alot better that one year that Carter was here IIRC. pssst. I made that list to refute your claim about the myth of there not being more than ten #1 receivers. I'm pretty sure all of them have had a few big drops.
Great QB's make avg receivers better...why? Psssst...I didn't make the claim about #1 receivers are a myth... Posted via Mobile Device
Hey, you're the one who put them on the list. So I'd like to point out that this year, they really ain't ish. Is it because Lee Evans sucks? TO Sucks? Or passing offense sucks? As pointed out, they had their best games against us. They both had around 60 yards, About double their previous averages. So we didn't shut them down. We actually allowed them to double their production. Lee Evans is pretty sick, TO is TO, but I'm pointing out, that sometimes a passing attack sucks, and is it the WR? I'm asking you, do Lee Evans or TO suck? They have 150 yards apiece? Whos fault is it that their numbers are low? Ginn had 850 yards from the LOS last year in his second year. He's still developing, he's still inconsistent. We are 2nd to last in the league in passing offense. 138 yards a game. Im pointing to a systemic problem in our passing offense. Good passing offenses pass well even with crappy WRs. Who are the Bears WRs? They have almost 100 ypg over us. Are there other receivers I'd rather have? Hell yes. Is Ginn top 15-20? Probably not. Could he be? He most definitely could if we tried to resemble an exciting passing offense. The day we develop one, and if that day he still isn't producing, is the day I will write him off. How can we compare him to these other guys in great passing offenses when our Pass attack as a whole, sucks?
lol, my bad. I didn't even bother to scroll up to see who said that. But to your point, do you care to give me an example of a great QB making an average receiver better? I'd say the same about an average QB being made better by having a great WR. Case in point: Torry Holt Isaac Bruce Randy Moss Jerry Rice (with the Raiders) Chris Carter Calvin Johnson Tim Brown Steve largent
I agree, great receivers can make avg QB's better. On the same hand, great QB's make avg receivers better. My point is, that having the QB's that Ginn's had, both terrible, and good with big limitations *Pennington*, it's much harder for Ginn to be successful. I also agree, I wish we had a vet for him to learn from.
And I'd bet you a $100 dollars, once he returns, it takes Plax a half a season to equal the number of TD receptions Ginn will have made during his absence. All three were on the field Sunday.....only one of them were invisible in the passing game. Maybe you should trim those trees back so that you can see just how badly this offense is starving for a play making WR. Making excuses for Teddy doesn't hide that fact...
Ronnie, Pat white, and Ricky Williams have taken snaps in the QB position this year. Our Running backs, TEs, WRs, QBs all sub in and out depending on formation. We do have a depth chart, and if your definition of a number one is nothing more than the guy at the top of the depth chart then, yes Ginn is a number one, and every team has one. He contributes and changes things even when he doesn't get the ball. Look what happend to Cobbs return average when you put him in the return game. Not really, it's a statement of fact. I love the fact that we a running team, it plays to our strengths. As Henne gets more experience we will get more balance, but we will always be a running team. It's not fair to compare our WRs numbers to say, the Colts, it's disingenuous. LOL ok.
Do you have proof of that? Or is it just more speculation?.....Like blaming Ginn's faults on everyone and everything ya'll can think of? Ginn has a limited skill set.......he's fast with decent hands. He can be used very productively in certain situations. However, he should be in no way confused with a play making/ red zone threat/ number one WR. These past four games have been a very good illustration of this. You guys can dig thru all the stats you want, it won't change what's being seen on the field. Right now his main contribution is as a decoy.....how long do you think that will be effective if he's not making big plays? We don't need decoys, we need points from that position......period
to be fair, I am 100% in agreeance with your stance on our passing system, and I've been saying it since preseason. I have not written off Ted Ginn, and you will not find a post by me stating that anywhere. What I have said is that there are alot of guys that are better than him at this point. Ginn did produce in year 2, and there is no debating that. The problem is that he is not playing to the level that he showed us that he can, and until he does it consistently then there will be these types of threads
That's right, and the number one guy gets most of the reps and chances, he's supposed to be the go to guy and scoring threat. If he's not, he needs to be upgraded. The fact that there are many teams that need upgrades at that spot, doesn't change anything. You want to just give up on the position and settle for the fact that we're wasting the kind of opportunities that this rushing attack provides? That's more of a credit to the coaches calling that play than anything else....you can't say with any certainty that replacing him with another player in that instance, wouldn't have been just as productive. I will say I liked the idea and hope we keep mixing things up like that. It is a good way to try and get some more production from Ginn. Once again, your number one guy has to be more than just a decoy No it's not.......it's excuses, plain and simple. While those things you mentioned, QB, system and etc will no doubt have an impact....they can't change Ginn's skill set. He is what he is.....which is mostly just fast. He lacks in too many areas to be a true impact player. lol......hey you did call us Bi-Polar
We have one. Ted Ginn. Hes fast. He's demonstrated he can make plays. Is he the best WR in the world? No. Are we using his talents. NO! The offense is starved for a play making WR? How about we're starved for a playmaking QB/Scheme? a 5 ypa cannot be blamed on the WR. Period. That is the QB and/or the gameplan.
Thats my point though Firesole, I agree with you. Its the chicken or the egg dilemna. How can Ginn be consistent, when our passing offense is not? How can our passing offense be consistent, if Ginn is not? If I saw Henne hitting all the WRs all over the field except Ginn, then I'd be inclined to say he's not playing well. But on a pass, the ball always goes through the QBs hands, and right now, we're not hitting any of our WRs for good plays. 138 yards a game. A 5.3 ypa. It's cause and effect. We don't know it's Ginn holding us down, until those numbers go up, and Ginn's doesn't.
you are ready to call Hartline our best receiver after 1 game? nice to see no one is knee jerking here.
Tedd Ginn gets upgraded as he gets experince. He has improved every year and there is no reason to think he won't contiune to improve. If you can add more talent by almeans do it. Ginn doesn't stop us from doing so. You cannot say that a replacing him would be either, I know what happend with him back there. So you do think a number one is more than the top guy on a depth chart? What is a number one then? Couldn't disagree more. Look at Ginns route running now compared to as a rookie. Ginns skill set is improved and improving. Speed is his trump, most impact players have something that they can naturally do that others cannot. Ginns is speed, he needs to develop the rest of his game and he is doing so. That doesn't mean that his is, or will be an impact player, but it doesn’t mean that he cannot be. I think he will be. Sorry, you misunderstood; I will try to be clearer. As a fan base we are Bi-polar. The minute some one has a good game he is the best ever. Conversely, the minute someone makes a mistake he is the worst and must be cut. I didn't mean that any individual posters were like that. (at least not here...) It's probably a good thing though. It makes the message board a lot more fun.
Highlighted to show the only things correct in that post... You highly over value and over-rate him......it's oviously not us "bashers" that have set the bar too high, it's his supporters Teddy Ginn a "play maker"? There are back ups making as many plays as Teddy has as a receiver....and probably score more often. Blaming everyone around him does nothing for your argument. Tedd Ginn is the only one that can help you, and he's not doing that. He's a nice complimentary player......but saying he's earned the number one spot and that he's a bonafide play maker is just ridiculous at this point. He's been our number one simply by default......and we need to upgrade
