Officials are full of it. The Camarillo Play explained with VIDEO.

I beg to differ. The Ravens were raped in that game versus the Pats.

 

I'm not calling you a idiot
1) The play at the end of the half was so close that the officials had to review it. The booth would have stopped play anyway. We had a chance to stop Brees on the sneak, but failed.

2) If our WR would have caught the ball in the first place, there wouldn't have been a INT. TV only showed two replays of that and both showed nothing but a TD for the Saints.

Both times we had a chance to stop them from scoring and we failed. Let's take is a step further, we got lucky that the replay didn't work on our first 3rd down. Bess dropped the pass, but it was ruled complete and New Orleans tried to challenge, but couldn't. We ended up punting, but what if we would have scored 3 or 7 on that drive? We didn't.

 

Why? Because of the hits on Brady? That's not the officials, that's the OWNERS. If the officials don't call the games the way the OWNERS want it called, they'll never work another NFL game. Believe me, I know how this works

 

I understand the logic but raped nevertheless. It sucks it has to be that way.

 

Camarillo screwed that up from the beggining by not turing on whatever afterburners he has and run straight towards the middle of the field where he might've picked up an extra 5 yards instead of losing 5 yards.

He ended up wasting not only more time by trying to hit the sideline but he got flagged.

At first look though it looks like he just stretched out his hands and the ball bounced off out of bounds when he hit the ground.

I dont think it was a good call. I dont care if it was a Jets player either, I still would think that was a bogus call.

 

respectfully disagree, the ball clearly went back about 1/2 a yard from where he let it go to where it went out of bounds.

 

I agree.
Player safety is very important and I understand that the owners want to protect thier investment at all costs. If I were a owner, I'd do the same thing, but I not and I never will be.

I love the old smash mouth football and I do miss it.

 

In any case its rigged then because that means that the owners can then in some way shape or form manipulate the refs to do there bidding which opens the door for anything such as the owners hold some uber secret meeting in which they draw lottery balls to determine who wins how many games and even the Superbowl every year .

 

that was as much parallel as the "Music City Miracle"...maybe moreso

 

I saw a replay of that play the other day on NFLN and THAT looked 10 times worse than this.

This is about as great a ref call as when instant replay was 'banished' for a few years and the Jets got that TD call back against Seattle (which the replays showed that the ball was like a full 1/2 a yard away from the goal line).

 

It's not just the NFL, but this is the way it is in every sport. I've worked games in 3 professional soccer leagues. We would go into our preseason meeting talking about other sports and what they are doing. We would have owners come into our meetings and discuss things. Even though our paychecks came from the league, we were working for the owners. The game itself is all about the players, no one else. Player safety was the most important issue.

 

Why is everybody arguing about whether it went forward or not? It's illegal to intentionally try to toss the ball out of bounds regardless of whether it goes forward or backwards.

 

Are you playing devil's advocate? The ball clearly went out of bounds at an angle, aka behind him.

 

because the OFFICIALS who are supposed to OFFICIALLY know this stuff and OFFICIALLY make the correct call, made the WRONG CALL.

if they made an announcement about a rule of intentionally throwing the ball out of bounds to stop the clock....thats another story. but thats not what happened here.

they made an announcement about something that didnt actually happen.
then they instituted a penalty for something that didnt actually happen.

and i dont know the rule either. but unlike others im not just going to claim i do. anyone care to actually look up the rule and share it with us? like the original poster did about the FORWARD PASS. the call that everyone heard. and id like to know the official penalty for it too. is it worse or better then what we got.


and like i said, i dont know the rule. so unlike others here calling it a stupid play, i thought it was a smart play. i knew he did it to stop the clock. i didnt, and still dont, know anything about a rule of intentionally fumbling out of bounds to stop the clock.

maybe camarillo doesnt know if there is a rule about this either. which is why i think it was a smart play. in the heat of the moment he changed his plan and still achieved his goal once he realized he wouldnt make it there himself.

if there is a rule against what he did. it was a mistake.
if not, it was a BRILLIANT play on his part.

 

That's the bottem line Cam just screwed up and if he didn't know the rule, well, that's his fault.

 

"It is illegal to intentionally fumble a ball forward and, by rule, an illegal forward fumble is an incomplete pass. That makes it a dead ball. A 5-yard penalty is then assessed from the spot."

What Cam did was legal, unless anyone can find an official source otherwise, may not be smart but it was legal, you just can not advance the ball down field. The Raiders did it in the 70's and won a game on a wild play and they changed the rule after that. Otherwise explain the fumble ruskie (sp), desperation returns, hook and ladders... You just can't advance the ball down field.

 

by this logic then ANY pass is then going to be considered a forward pass as the individual making the throw is going to turn their body to make the throw. the rule is LOS and compared by that, not position of the players body or any part.

 

Fine. But that is what they should have called instead of Illegal forward pass, because that it was not.

 

See: Music City Miracle play.

 

If the refs had gotten the Colston call right the first time we probably wouldnt be having this conversation.

 

There is a rule against it therefore it was a mistake. I don't now what the infraction is called. I'm also not sure what the penalty is. But I knew it was a penalty before he did it as I've seen it called before. I actually thought the penalty was 10 yards and a loss of down. I've looked through the NFL rule book on NFL.com but I can't find anything on point. There is a "palpably unfair" catch-all, but the penalties there are usually harsher although the ref's do have some discretion there. I actually think they gave us a break. It wouldn't seem fair for the ref's to allow us to gain 7 yards on the completion, take away 5 yards and give us another 1st down.

 

I'm a ref myself, and - sad to say - it was the right call and it was killing me when it happened because I knew exactly what they were doing there. It was forward, ever so slightly. Trust me, they wouldn't have called it that unless they were 100% sure. As much as it might seem they are at times, the refs aren't in the business of making the game about themselves - therefore, they wouldn't make a possibly game-changing call at that point in the game unless they were darn sure about it.

 

oh, so now we're leaving it up to the refs to judge intentions? what does Camarillo do that lets you know he lost the ball on purpose? and what part of that looks like a pass?

 

As shown by the video captures, it was clearly backward and not forward. So, in that sense, I don't think the call was correct. However, as much as I hate to admit it, I do believe that there should have been a penalty on the play, just not what was called. I think instead they should have called delay of game or whatever the penalty is for intentionally fumbling out of bounds (don't know what the penalty is exactly, but I know there is a penalty for it).

 

In one of the angles they showed during the game it was clear that he tried to throw it. He looks at the sideline and then pushes the ball forward before he hits the ground. I knew it was a penalty to intentionally throw it so I was hoping it wasn't on purpose but when they showed that other angle I knew there was no way he wouldn't be called for it. It was that obvious.

And judging intention is nothing new. Refs are asked to determine that in unsportsmanlike conduct penalties and unnecessary roughness penalties.

 

These are action-based, not intention-based. If you accidentally hit the quarterback on the head during a sack, you get a penalty. It doesn't matter if you were trying to or not.

I believe Camarillo was trying to fumble it out of bounds, but it's also possible he was just trying to extend himself as far as he could to attempt to get to the sideline and the ball came out.

 

Disagree. I don't know if you looked at the video at the start of the thread or not. What I saw was not what the rules call a forward pass.
In addition, the rest of the highlighted text is suggesting that the officials are infallible. That is untrue; they're human therefore they can and do make mistakes. I understand that they do their best and they don't make a bad call intentionally. However, they have made bad calls that are potentially game changing. For that matter, the replay rule states that any review has to show very clearly that the call on the field was wrong. In other words, if they can't get a clear shot of the play, it will stand as called. It may still be a bad call, but they can't see well enough to know for sure.

 

I'll have to disagree with that. It was not clear at all.

 

It was from the sideline angle.

 

Always enjoy your input but I see it differently. I see it as he MIGHT have thought to toss it out of bounds but changed his mind and used his other hand to try and get back control of it...

 

Yes it was, the ref who called did not call it because it went forward, he called it because Greg willfully threw the ball out of bounds to stop the clock...

Maybe the better call might have been a "delay of game"???

Just my opinion... Greg should have never done it, there was plenty of time left, so he did not have to be creative...

 

It can't be both right and wrong at the same time.
Using your logic it would be okay to call pass interference for a late hit on the QB; as long as some sort of penalty is called?

 

The only problem I have is that it is a judgment call and the NFL is trying to move away from referees making those types of decisions. Easy solution, just keep the clock rolling by doing the windmill instead of calling penalties that require you to be the in head of the player.

 

Maybe flashbacks of that Colts game and when we messed up the 2 min drill wasting so much time was in his head.

 

I was watching with a couple of other Dolphin fans and I immediately said "it's illegal to intentionally throw it out of bounds but maybe it was just a fumble and not intentional". They started running through the replays and everybody was specifically watching to see if he threw it or just fumbled. I even mentioned that if it was ambiguous we might get the benefit of the doubt. Then they showed the side line angle and he clearly tossed. Everybody was instantly deflated b/c it was so obvious he threw it.

 

IMO, Camarillo knew good n well it was illegal to do, and tried to fake the fumble OB, but did a terrible acting job.
The refs knew it was on purpose, but made the wrong call in that it was a forward pass and not a fumble.
Upon replay the ref realized this, and not wanting to sound like a fool over calling an incorrect penalty, but knowing it was an illegal intentional ob fumble, decided to split the difference, call it a forward pass but only penalize 5 yards instead of 10.
The loss of down was charged for Cams terrible acting, that caused the whole problem in the first place.