First Ditka sold the farm to draft Ricky Williams: 1 12 1999 Bears QB Cade McNown 3 71 1999 Bears WR D'Wayne Bates 4 107 1999 Redskins LB Nate Stimson 5 144 1999 Bears LB Khari Samuel 6 179 1999 Broncos TE Desmond Clark 7 218 1999 Broncos WR Billy Miller 1 2 2000 Redskins LB LaVar Arrington 3 64 2000 Redskins DB Lloyd Harrison And those are the players those picks turned into. Wanny traded 2 #1's for Ricky Williams: Charles Grant #26 overall in 2002 The Saints traded the #17 overall to the Cardinals and that became Bryant Johnson Wr who was a dud. Interesting, RW for all of his cost, seems to have produced enough to make those trades 4 #1 picks when all was said and done, worth the cost. I must admit I lost the players involved once the Saints traded the second #1 pick to the Cardinals, I thought that a DT (Will Smith?) ended up being produced from that trade but I'm not 100% And let me add...looking at those player's names, there is not a single one that could possibly be offered for Ricky Willams in a trade today...not one...Charles Grant is an "okay" Dlineman. Either the NFL player acquisition system is simply terrible, or Ditka and Wanny knew what they were doing..I threw up into my nose a little bit typing that bit..
Ricky and JT are the lone remaining Dolphins from when that trade was made. Two Dolphin legends. Ricky has hall of fame legs, but won't get there because of his sacrifice. Jason Taylor will be a hall of famer if he continues to show that he can get it done still at a high level. Ricky was really traded for 2 firsts. New Orleans got their 2 1sts back when they trade him us. So they really only payed a few mid round picks. We paid 2 firsts, and after what he has done this season, he is now worth every penny. Ricky has walked the road of redemption. He is now debt free IMO.
"depth" or "Debt free" Gish? Eh, and the picks were exchanged, players were taken, 4 #1's and a whole slew of picks, the thing of it is none of the players who were selected with those picks have amounted to anything to speak of, some had good careers, but RW is still truckin' along. The lesson from the RW Trade is teams can over value draft picks imho.
I don't know just because those teams picked poorly doesn't devalue draft picks to me. I wouldn't trade an entire draft for the production the Saints got from Ricky. Ricky is playing great right now, I'm really happy for him but he's been inconsistent in his career and you can't overlook him quitting on our team when talking about trading two number one's. We never really won anything of note out of the trade, neither did the Saints, which is the true measure of a trade IMO.
He's probably talking about him sacrificing his carreer to go smoke pot in India or wherever in the hell he went. He is right, the guy should be going to the Hall of Fame, instead he's never going to get out from the shadow that he cast over himself as a quitter. Like the old saying goes....build 1000 bridges and suck one _ _ _ _, your not known as a bridge builder, your known as a _ _ _ _ sucker.
Picks for players generally turns out like that though ffs72, for all of the talk of the "Herschel Walker Trade" where the Cowboys acquired picks than drafted some good players, what is more typical is the "Steve Walsh Trade" a player is moved for a high pick and a later round pick and neither do very much. As for Ricky's production and Quitting, the last two seasons have equaled that out if one thinks about it, 04 and 05, 08 and 09. As for "won anything of note" all one player can do, even if they are the best in the NFL is, lead a team to the playoffs, they cannot win on their own, which sort of tells you how hard it is to make the playoffs in the first place.
Well look at the Walker trade, if the Vikings had won a Superbowl no one would be mocking that deal today. Just like the Saints, no one would be questioning that move if they went onto a Superbowl title. We traded two number ones for a couple of decent seasons where we had no real shot at a title, it wasn't a really smart trade. Trades on judged on winning, what if Dallas hadn't won anything after trading Walker? No one would even remember the deal 20 years later. I don't think the Saints trade proved anything about the value of draft picks, it just showed that some front offices are so bad, like Washingtons that giving them two entire drafts in the same season won't even help. If you gave teams that draft wisely like Baltimore, Pittsburg, etc two entire drafts in one season they'd build a Superbowl team, you give the Cleveland Browns two entire drafts and they will bust on 9/10 of those picks.
The two #1 picks turned out to be...no one of note. The Dolphins at least made the playoff with RW, and he did set the single season rushing record in Miami history, Charles Grant is a decent player but certainly not as dominant as even a 32 yr old Ricky Williams. Certainly, the Walker trade was the exception and not the rule, far more typical is the Saints trade with the Redskins, sure the Redskins got a boatload of picks, even a #2 overall pick, out of the trade, but the players were just not very good, when a trade is made for a proven and productive and young NFL player it works out for the team that acquired him. Draft picks are always a crap shoot. Maybe, each draft is unique, the Redskins took Levar Arrington with the #2 overall pick, he was supposedly a can't miss prospect, the Saints wound up with a #27 pick and a #16 pick, neither turned out to be a franchise changing player.
Spielman got taken on that trade. The market for an elite back at the time was set by the Marshall Faulk trade, a 2nd and a 5th or there abouts. So while the draft picks were used poorly, IMO there is no doubt that both the Saints and the Dolphins over paid. As for the HOF, RW misses b/c of his production. He is basically a less productive Jamal Lewis, without the SB win or the 2000 yard season.
Ricky Williams' career is very overrated on this board. His only real Hall of Fame year was 2002. He was slightly better than average in New Orleans, had one great year with us and then has either been out of football or a good split carry back. He is tied for 194th all time in yards per carry. He has the same yards per carry as Kevin Faulk.
Using that rationale, I guess that means Marino sucked. (It really hurt to type those two words together BTW.)
Padre, how can you possibly judge a trade based on what the other teams chose with their draft picks?? That logic makes no sense, we likely would not have picked any of those players
Easily, Williams was acquired for those picks, they were used on those players, head to head which worked out better for the teams that made the trades? Clearly Williams was a home run for Dolphins and the Saints at worst had a push as Williams did not play in NOLA for very long.
YPC? Chances are excellent that Ricky Williams becomes the Dolphins all time leading rusher, passing Larry Csonka, not bad for Charles Grant and Bryant Johnson. As for HoF, not seeing it, not unless he plays until he is 35 and has over 10k yds in his career, even then, he was not a dominant player at his position for a long period of time. As for the Faulk trade, the Colts drafted Edge, Faulk was coming off of a broken ankle and that is why he was traded so cheaply.
It was not considered to be career threatening. He went for the market value. Can you name another RB that went for as high as what we paid for RW?
debt free. but the saints got a refund on the 2 1sts they paid. he only has 2 1sts on him right now, not 4. he sacrificed millions of dollars and a hall of fame career to smoke weed. i'd say thats one hell of a sacrifice.
I hope so, I know he was in a deep hole due to the signing bonuses. 4 #1 picks have been traded for RW. Debatable, is that sacrificed or could not control himself?
You make it sound as if it was a noble sacrifice that he made. Also, he didn't sacrifice anything. He retired to avoid getting suspended for drug use - something that he would get suspended for a few years later. Even if he hadn't retired I don't think that he would be a Hall of Famer. Seriously, take a good look at his career. He had ONE great year in 2002. That's it.
Nice post. I believe Wannstedt thought the 2002 team was a good running back away. They had had two consecutive 11-5 seasons, despite Lamar Smith being only so-so in 2000 and putrid in 2001. Of course as quite a few people said at the time (not me), that team was a quarterback away.
They still paid a #1 and a #3 pick for him rafi. And he turned out to be worth far more than either of those choices. Robert Edwards and Chris Floyd? Which is sort of typical, draft choices for young proven veteran players is a win for the team who acquires the veteran.
You put that tender on a player b/c you don't think anybody would over pay that much and you don't match b/c you're getting so much. Obviously, you can get lucky but the fact is that running backs get injured often so their value is lower. Paying two #1s for a running back is grossly over paying. And sending a whole draft + is just stupidity no matter how badly the other team screws up the picks.
I love Ricky as much as the next guy, but I think the lesson is some teams are really lousy at drafting.
Just a question, was Wanny still in Chicago making those picks when Rikcy was originally drafted by the Saints?
Hmm...good question, I "think" Wanny was fired in 1999 and Jauron took over in 2000? Nah, wanny was canned in 98.
Marino was a draft pick that got us to a Superbowl singlehandedly and was a HOFer, there isn't anything comparable between Marino's career, his value to this franchise and Ricky's.
No draft pick is a certain thing, a veteran NFL player in their prime is a known. It is hard to hear that draft picks aren't really this treasure that most be protected at all costs, quite the opposite if one looks at the list of players that were taken, two were "Can't miss" types, LeVarr Arrington and Cade McNown. Both are out of the NFL now, Ricky is on pace for another 1,000 yd season.
When you consider the two 1st round picks we traded for RW you have to consider what Wanny would have done with those picks if he had kept them and what the return might have been. The odds are that he would have bumbled those picks like he did a lot of other picks. The Dolphins didn't get a lot of return for their drafts under Wanny.