Bill Parcells comments on Ted Ginn Jr.

I've been pondering this speed thing quite a bit. Tell me, if Ginn runs the 40 in .2 - .4 faster than any of our other receivers how does that truly help us on a deep route if he's not a true receiving threat? Let me explain.

If Camarillo, Hartline or Bess runs 40 yards downfield a DB still has to go with them and more than likely a safety will still rotate that direction. If the decoy is being used for speed only and not a deep receiving threat tell me, if the receiver and DB are 20-30-40 yards down field no matter who they are chasing isn't the ultimate objective still reached by clearing someone out of the play if it's a crossing pattern, an underneath pass or a run?

My point is if he cant' catch the speed is irrelevant - Any receiver can run deep and Ginn is the least likely to catch the ball anyway.

 

its a good point, i would say if i was a defense, and knew bess and cammy were on the outside, i put my corners on an island and be much more aggressive towards the LOS with my safeties. no way those cats can get by todays nfl corners deep. Ginn's done it on several occassions, and has had some shots that were overthrown where he was open, which has the same affect.

Its all going to crap though, because it looks as though the kid, can't beat the press to be a consistent, decoy or receiver..

 

is wayne brady going to have to slap a *****?

 

exactly. he needs to get open first and catch second. let him concentrate on that .

dont want him fighting through tackles. he isnt that type of receiver and its ridiculous to fault him on it. speed guys are almost never physical guys

 

the other variable though is that all considered any of the others even with limited separation probably have a similar chance of making the catch.

I can tell you based on what I've seen this season I would put any of the others up against Ginn in terms of how many times the ball, when thrown to the receiver and not overshot by a country mile, is caught even on a deep pattern.

 

No, No---

Bill Parcells is going to have to Slap a *****---

 

Does anyone have a link to the actual quote, or article it was first reported? Perhaps who took the quote, where, when? Some context leading up to how Parcells came to make this statement, or any others imploring as much from Ginn?

Just curious, considering theres not much credit offererd to anyone, or any story, other than "Miami Herald" as a potential contributing source.

(edit) I HAVE been out of the news loop the past few days without web access, so if the quote is old, previously substantiated news.......................nevermind.

 

I just watched a bunch of college highlights of Ginn and read some of Boomer's thoughts from back in the day. Ginn was breaking a lot of tackles, it was cool. He needs his college mentality back. I really hope we don't part ways with him in the offseason. I think with an offseason to work with Henne and us possibly bringing in a traditional number one guy, Ginn would flourish. Also, it's a ****ing travesty that he's not returning punts. Absolute shame. It makes me sick.

 

Ginn has six career catches over 40 yards. All of our other receivers combined have 2. Both of which occurred on 10 yard slants. You can pretend it doesn't matter, I'll take Ginn every day of the week.

 

Ginn is a track star, not a football player.

 

Take him anywhere you want to as long as it's not here.

To put it into baseball terms.

I don't want a guy that hits a home run once in a while that bats .085

 

GinnJr & Jason Allen have had their opportunity to make their bones
they didn't, they are a bust & will be gone before the start of next season
now,
it's Hennes turn to come into his own or not
we go no where w/o a Franchise QB

 

Jason Allen has been really good on ST, I doubt he's gone. I would like to see Ginn get it together and produce for us, but who knows if he will...
Posted via Mobile Device

 

No, it isn't a travesty. Punt returning is something of a pet project for Parcells- he makes it his business to stay on top of it everywhere he goes. He used to coach the punt returners (Dave Meggett, Phil McConkey, Dedric Ward) while he was a HC, now he keeps a sharp eye on it from upstairs. If Ginn was the right guy for the job Parcells would be all over it. But Ginn has had problems securing the ball as a punt returner, he's been indecisive and he isn't quick or laterally explosive in a short space. He isn't returning punts because he isn't a very good punt returner in the NFL. Bess is average at best, and even with that and Ginn's smaller role as a WR they still won't have him return punts. That should tell you something right there.

 

why?

 

So why was he back there multiple times the past two games with Bess?

 

Ginn is only back on punts when we have plenty of field to set up a return.....

Because otherwise he's got no room to pull that one trick he has out of his bag, speed.

/ thread

 

tricks? do other wrs juggle the ball on the way down the field or something

 

It has been three years
You would think he would have had these two things down by now. Jesus
If he doesn't have it now it's not going to happen

 

Not saying he's vincent jackson but VJ took until his 4th year to break out ... Charger fans in VJ's 3rd year were talking smack about him


Again, not saying he's VJ ... oh how I wish we could get VJ

 

vj, vd....man we could be sponsored by the tv show V

 

Marvin Harrison, who many complained about how he avoided contact, didn't have over 1000 yards receiving until his 4th season. Coincidentally, that was after Harrison had played a full season with a rookie QB by the name of Peyton Manning.

I'm not suggesting Ginn is Harrison, though their styles of play are certainly similar, but the three year WR rule doesn't always hold true - especially considering this is the first year Ginn is playing with someone who can take full advantage of his skill set.

 

The book's not closed on Ginn. He should be playing better than he is but he isnt as bad as people on this board make him out to be. He'll have one more year to put it all together. In the past he's the shown the abilty to catch, this years he's shown the ability to get open, he just needs to put it all together but since he's shown the ability its very doable. He will probably have a Tony Martin type of career. It just takes some people longer. We'll see. His problem isnt physical its mental or emotional not sure but that can be fixed easily.

Stephen Baker lasted six years with Parcells. Dont see any reason he wont be playing for us in 2010. If we get some team to trade us for him maybe but he wont be cut

 

yeah, the speed guys take longer than the possession guys. the possession and slot guys seem to be able to come in the first or second year and play at a high level. the speed guys seem to take the full three years often times or even four like you said

 

Jeez, people. He's non-confrontational. Give him a break. Also, catching the ball is optional if you can run as fast as he does. Bess, Cam and Hart drop passes too!

He's already--


...Ok, that was just flat out difficult to do. I can't even pretend to defend this guy.

 

Stable QB play is a big thing for WRs too ... while I want Ginn to be the one helping Henne he's only recently shown signs of adjusting to what Henne is doing with the football on offense. Similar to how Harrison struggled before getting in tune with Manning.

Andre Caldwell worked out with Carson Palmer in the offseason, and while he only has 363 yards, that's 5 times more than what he had in his rookie season. I want to hear about Ginn having that same dedication to improving, if he is still here at the end of the season.

 

Ginn has clearly regressed this year, that is two years with Sparano and he has gotten worse this year, maybe it is the kick return duty, maybe not, Ginn is not even as good this year as he was in his rookie season.

Not saying he will be cut, or even offered in a giveaway trade, Ginn is close to being a kick return specialist and 4th Wr.

 

yeah thats really what I need to see from Ginn. An understanding that he has to do everything he can to get better and this offseason will prove or disprove whether he has the work habits necessary to succeed

Also good point on the improvement in Ginn's catching lately. He bailed out Henne on a couple of those throws. Of course no credit from the peanut gallery they just wait for the one drop

 

in terms of production you may be right but when you break down his game its clear he improved his biggest problem the first two years which was getting open and route running. He's not perfect in those areas but compared to year's one and two light years ahead

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but I do think that the 3 year rule for WRs isn't always something that can be applied to players. In this case we're looking at a speed WR who basically had to relearn the position, playing with his 5 QB in under 3 years. There's a lot more to the situation than just Ted Ginn.

Like I said, the thing I am looking for from him is effort - effort to get better and effort on the field. He looked great running routes in the preseason, but then started getting lazy and rounding them off early in the year. He's gotten better of late, coincidentally his targets and catches have both improved these last few weeks.

 

Sparano's regressed too. He should be fired.

It's time to look at our coaching man. He has gotten worse from last year. This is after he improved his second year. He's supposed to be as good or better. This is not to absolve Ginn completely, he still needs to do his job. But clearly, our coaching sucks. There have been multiple failures with our coaches (all the way up and down) and I'm not going to just blame players all the time.

I'm definitely not saying fire Sparano. But there is blame to go around here. This same set of WRs (plus Hartline) is doing much worse than last year and with a better armed QB.

 

It's funny how every year people then say "X receiver took X # of years to develop, maybe Ginn is of that same mold".

What I see is next year someone is going to have to find a receiver that didn't register a good season until year 5 to keep justifying this argument.

 

Come on man...lol

Light years?.....could he have possibly sucked THAT BAD the first two years?

Because I'm sorry, he still looks pretty bad out there for the most part....there are some things about Ginn that are just un-fixable. Do you really think he'll ever toughen up enough, to not get pushed around and knocked off his routes on a routine basis?

I fail to see these "improvements" he's made.....and given the fact that he's lost playing time this year, I'd say the coaches would agree.

And here we are in his 3rd season and he's actually lost playing time, yet some of you are talking about how maybe he just needs ANOTHER year to develop? Into what? At this rate, by next year he'll be lucky to be doing anything but returning kicks.

He lost playing time for NOT developing.....and it's not like we have a loaded WR unit. Giving him another year to develop would be the most generous, optimistic and misguided blunder I have seen since the Fielder days.

 

Really?
Ginn had 9 catches in the last 6 games
Two on Sunday in a crucial game
He was shutout twice in that stretch
73 yards in those six games
That's improvement?

25 catches on the season
1 TD
He had 11 in one game
Could have been 12 but he dropped the game winner
That leaves us with what?
14 catches in 10 games

Those are the facts so far in 2009
What he could be is pure speculation
The numbers don't lie

 

And this is the problem with expectations, going 11-5 means we always will go 11-5, or it is disaster...

That "better armed Qb" is functionally a rookie, and our defense is putrid, yet Sparano Magic will make it all better?

Ginn more or less lost me when he would throw the most basic of blocks on a Pat White 33yd run, I can handle the drops, I cannot handle not helping a teammate.

 

You can handle the drops? I cant
The first thing you would expect from an NFL wide receiver is to catch the football. No brainer
The second phase of the position is to learn how to block downfield
Ginn is frail. My hopes weren't real high in that area

 

One is a lack of skill, the other a lack of heart, a big difference between the two in my eyes.

The thing about Ginn though, as soon as you throw dirt on him, and write him off, he does something big in the following game.

 

I got my shovel out. Hope it works

Ginn lacks skill and heart
Ton of talent
Production means more to me. I put the numbers up to prove it.

I can't understand how you can handle the drops....

 

Wouldn't surprise me if it did.

It's fairly simple, perspective, guys will drop balls, it happens even to all pros, the lowest scrub Wr can at least block.