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Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

Discussion in 'Other Sports Forum' started by alen1, Mar 25, 2008.

  1. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

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    You speak the truth. When I heard all those gimmick ppv's the first thing I thought was they are going to be watered down since the PG thing. Also, it takes away the specialness of the match. HiTC should only be used to put an end to a long feud that has been good. The rest like TLC should not be used very often either because fans like them since they are very rarely used, if you have special ppv's with that as the theme it will get old fast.
     
    Ray Finkle likes this.
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Exactly right. During the Attitude Era we saw so many hardcore, ladders and TLC matches that Jeff Hardy could do a 450 splash into a shooting star press into a swanton bomb from 300 feet in the air, onto a burning table and fall into a tank of sharks with laser beams on their heads the fans wouldn't even pop.

    In Mick Foley's 2nd book I believe he mentions how in his HiTC match with Triple H he mentions how early on in the match the fans weren't really cheering for the big moves/spots or into false pin attempts and both he and Triple H started to panic a bit until they realized that the fans knew the match wouldn't end until they did a big spot on top of the cage, yet these guys were killing themselves for nothing before that.

    These gimmick matches (unless they're the Rumble or War Games) can't be a yearly thing. They have to be used only for big blow offs or pay offs or they won't have the same effect. That's part of the reason why regular cage matches and the Hardcore title got stale and boring.
     
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  3. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

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    I agree,the gimmick matches used to mean something special when they were brought out,now they will be like oh well another TLC,HiTC,etc. This will probably hurt any credibility these matches have on pushing wrestlers. Also, they have to think about the health of their competitors because of all the risks and spots these matches have,like you said fans are soon going to expect too many big spots in a match,like the top of the cage spot in HiTC and the bumps in TLC's.
     
  4. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Interesting.

    Kofi Kingston was the lone survivor in his Survivor Series Match, pinning Randy Orton for the win.
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Good call Finkle! Haha. Seriously it was a pretty obvious ending. I just read the results, seems like a lukewarm Survivor Series where nothing really happen that was surprising.
     
  6. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    it does set up HHH for HBK for WM26
     
  7. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I think that's pretty much set in stone now. I wouldn't be surprised to see Triple H turn heel now, since there are no main event heels on RAW other than Orton and he's busy right now, thankfully, and HBK has made it clear he has no interest in either turning heel or being the champion. Although a heel HBK against a face Triple H would be refreshing. I'll be happy either way just for Triple H to stop wearing the DX baseball hat backwards.

    The big problem on RAW is again no main event heels, I have no idea who would be Cena's next challenger for the title. They could always move CM Punk to RAW, since it's obvious Batista is now the top heel on Smackdown, to challenge Cena or even have him do a quick mini feud with Jericho.
     
  8. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Well, it appears that both Mysterio and Big Show are primed for knee surgery. Rey can always come back as the scrappy underdog face like he usually plays, although, I would love to see him come back and swerve everyone with a heel turn, blaming the lack of support he receives from fans and wrestlers alike when he gets his *** kicked by monsters like Batista

    As for Show going out. I am not sure how long he will be out (if at all), but I would love to have Jericho strip Show of the title as well, berate the crap out of him as he did Edge and find himself a new partner (again). Or simply say that he should know better than to rely on anyone else other than himself as evidenced by his last two partners. Vacates the unified tag titles and refocuses on winning the world titles.

    Although, if he does keep the tag titles, it leads to a natural Big Show/Edge pairing against Jericho and whoever his new partner would be. That could be interesting.
     
  9. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    What's your thoughts on Kofi's hot streak, BW?
     
  10. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    It was part of the script?
     
  11. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I am all for it. A while back, I had him as one of the top breakout stars for the WWE (the criteria was that they had to be under 30 and never a world champion). I get a serious Booker T vibe from him, and not because he is black.

    Booker was such a well rounded athlete when he was younger. He was a high flyer and simply had a repoire with the audience ti where, he could come otu and pop them every time, regardless of what storyline was being run. Kofi is the same way. I would love to see him as a heel again one day, but for now, he is hitting his spots perfectly.

    I think the WWE sees him as a complete package. Something they had high hopes for in Shelton Benjamin but got scared away from for some reason. Between Kofi, Swagger, Punk, Morrison and a few others, I think the WWE is on the verge of something special again soon. I really do.

    Cena and Orton will be around for a good long while still, and HHH, HBK, UT, Jericho and Show will be as well, but there is certainly a youth movement in effect, which I hinted at a couple months back. Say what you want about WWE and their storytelling of late, but their development of talent has been pretty spot on recently...and a couple more look to be on the main roster soon.

    What will be telling though will be Wrestlemania. By then, you could see Edge back in the fold along with Rey and a coupdl of other veteran types. If the youngins canhold their own and secure a couple of upper card spots for the Biggest Eventof the Year, then you will know they are legit.

    A TLC match with Sheamus, Borne, Mcintyre, Swagger and a couple of others could be seriously insane if they decide to go that route. I also wish The Pope was still around the WWE as I feel he could do wonders right now, but he seems to be doing well in TNA.
     
  12. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah talk about a terrible idea pushing Sheamus this hard this fast. It's not going to end well for him.
     
  13. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I see no problem pushing Sheamus at this point in time. It is one of the smaller PPVs of the year and above all else, he is a NEW face for the main event scene. Evenif it is a one off deal for him, it raises his profile and gives Cena someone new to fued with in the short term. I see no downside to this.

    Would you all have preferred Orton/HHH/HBK/Jericho...again? I am prepared to defend the WWE on this decision since the internet community has been clamoring for new faces to come up to the main event scene. Guess what, you got it.

    If it raises Sheamus's profile to the point of being a top contender for the secondary belts and the occasional main event slot, why not? Pull the trigger and see what happenes. Drew McIntyre is about to be in the same boat I feel.
     
    unluckyluciano likes this.
  14. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Well besides from the obvious that he's clearly not ready to main event especially for RAW (even if it's at a smaller PPV) and he's done nothing major since coming over but beat up Jamie Noble and Jerry Lawler and the fact that match won't draw a dime, the main thing is it's obvious Sheamus is going to job to Cena, so yeah it hurts him. This is the same formula they used with Umega in what 2006? It killed his monster push. Sheamus has no credibility as a main event threat right now, I mean seriously is there any shot Sheamus wins the belt?

    Why not give the match to CM Punk, who could match Cena in terms of mike skills and wrestling. Hell they put on a good match last night on RAW. At least with Punk it's something new and fresh. And people might actually buy the PPV because the match is a draw, plus people might believe Punk has a shot to win. See the WWE should have had a Sheamus/Cena RAW match so Sheamus could get his feet wet that way and go with a Cena/Punk program until WM.

    If not Punk, I would have given the match to Jericho or The Miz since they're the best heels the WWE has on RAW right now and it's clear RAW is lacking main event heels and Orton is clearly stale at this point. The Miz could gloat about how he deserves a shot at the title since he was a survivor at the Survivor Series and he's the US champ. You can even keep The Miz's heat when he doesn't win the title.

    It just goes back to the problem that the WWE has zero main event heels right now. Which is a major problem unless they want to push Punk or have some heel turns.
     
  15. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    So you would rather have Miz int here who was destroyed by Cena in no time flat just about a month ago? Granted Miz has upped his game to a degree, but no one is going to buy him as a challenger either.

    As for Punk, the argument I would make is that Punk/Cena is a money matchup down the line, and one that I think is best served at a larger event (RR, SS, WM, etc.) as opposed to burning it at an end of year ppv that traditionally doesn't draw much (due to the holidays mainly). Wouldn't you want amatch like that to draw as large a crowd as you can?

    I could see it now, they give that shot to Punk and the internet wanks start yelling and screaming that Punk is being set up to fail by giving him a mian event shot on a forgetable PPV, blah blah blah.

    I am a big Jericho fan, and would have had no problem with him getting the shot, but he is yet ANOTHER guy who has been destroyed by Cena over and over again. And you know they aren't planning on taking the strap from him, so why feed him Jericho...again?

    As for the Umaga analogy, I disagree in that, it completely RAISED Umaga in the eys of amny people, including myself. They ahd a couple of brawls that were downright brutal and intense. It turned me into an Umaga fan actually. Besides, if the WWE REALLY wants to pull a fast one, the tables stipulation could lead to a surprise champion, much in the way that Kane beat Austin in a first blood match to be the champ (even if it was for a day).

    Leading up to the PPV though, I fully expect Sheamus to start showing himself more and more, perhaps even touching on the fact that he is green (no pun intended), but that he will show everyone that he is ready. Then have him anhilate his opponents each week AND come back to kill Cena dead each and every week building up to the PPV.

    I have no problem with it.
     
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  16. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    its still real to me damn it
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah you're right about a Cena/Punk program that should take place at a major PPV. I wouldn't mind a lame Cena/UT vs. Punk/Batista tag match though to start up the feuds.

    But yeah I'd give the shot to Miz. Actually if I was booking I'd have Miz earlier in the night screw Morrison out of the IC title and in the main event the ref could be knocked out and the Miz could have a chair and I'd have Morrison run out and stop the Miz but cost Cena the match via DQ. Then the Miz can claim he beat Cena, which is true and let him keep his heat even if he didn't win the belt. In the process it adds heat to the Miz/Morrison feud. And the announcers can play up the fact that the Miz is the uncrown world champion, which he could play up because he's good on the mike.

    The Cena/Umaga feud was great match wise but once Cena moved on to his next feud Umaga never really recovered and was never seen as a real threat anymore (of course he never was to begin with due to his gimmick).

    My only point is that the WWE is pushing someone who's not ready nor has any business being in the ring with Cena. I think it's a mistake, especially for a PPV.
     
    alen1 likes this.
  18. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

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    I like the fact that they are testing a few new guys in the main event scene. When they entered Orton in the tournament,I thought oh great Cena vs. Orton again. However, was surprised when they went with Sheamus,but I think it is too early in his push to rush him to the main event. I just hope he doesn't go the way of Kozlov and fall after a huge monster push. On the other hand it is something new which is what fans have been calling for so maybe it's best to just give it a shot,I just hope it is not too soon and they make him look good vs Cena. Speaking of last night though with his movie and all,I actually thought DiBiase was going to win the battle royal.
     
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  19. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    The difference between Sheamus and say, Kozlov or even Umaga for that matter, is that the guy can speak AND go in the ring. If the WWE lets him do his thing (maybe not in this match but going forward afterwards), I think people will be pleasantly surprised in Mr. O'Shaunugshy (or however he spells it).

    Plus, he could always just BLIND Cena by angling his white skin to bounce the light right off his chest into John's eyes.

    :shifty:
     
  20. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

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    Haha,I agree with Ventura saying the man needs to see the sun haha. Yeah Sheamus has the mic skills while the other two didn't well based on their characters couldn't really talk on the mic. Yeah I guess he deserves his chance in the main event,at least it is something fresh and not the same stale rotation of the same old guys.
     
  21. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    But this quick though? It just doesn't seem right to me. Don't get me wrong, the man has talent. It just doesn't sit right with me that this guy gets catapulted to the main event while other wrestlers who has been in the WWE longer (like, say, Matt Hardy and Shelton Benjamin) have yet to even taste main even status (Well, except they are rectifying this situation by putting Christian and Benjamin in a ladder match for the ECW Championship).
     
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  22. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    For better or worse, the WWE has a certain think when it comes to those midcard veterans. I can almost assure you that Benjamin and Hardy are viewed as solid performers who aren't "main event" caliber. They were both given chances to compete and fell short according to people in the offices. Essentially, they have been stamped with the midcard label forever, since they have been in the midcard...forever.

    Whether this is true or not is irrelevant. In this case, the perception is reality. As for me, I was a big Matt Hardy fan, but I have soured on him over time as he has simply become lazy, out of shape and seemingly feels that things are owed to him. Honestly, how bad must you be viewed when your drug addicted brother who got himself FIRED a few years back is able to come back and be a multi time champ? Matt's desire is just gone at this point.

    As for Shelton, I would LOVE to see him elevated, but I don't think it will happen beyond the ECW plateau. He needs a mouthpiece as well, but managers are a relic for the WWE.
     
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  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I agree with you on Matt Hardy, he does feel like things are owed to him. But I guess I'd be a little bitter too when the two times he was really over with the crowd (Verison 1.0 gimmick and during the Edge feud) he got jobbed out pretty quickly because the writers didn't get his character. I like the guy but he just seems like he carries a lot of grudges, I mean he apparently forgave Lita but not Edge which tells you something about him right there.

    Shelton wasn't elevated simply because of his skin color, unfortunately. The guy was super over and all of the sudden the guy needs to have his fat 'mother' hang out with him and do his talking. Granted he wasn't great on the mike but his in ring skills could have kept him hot and fresh. Hopefully Kofi doesn't get pushed down the ladder like Shelton did.
     
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  24. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Well, forgiving the dude that had sex with your girl behind your back is not exactly the easiest thing to do. Heck, I'm Christian, and one of the things emphasised to me is forgiveness, and I would have trouble forgiving a friend of mine if he did that, let alone the girl in that situation.

    As for Shelton.... well, not every top champ in the company had great mic skills.
     
  25. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Oh yeah I agree with you about the Hardy/Edge stuff but I don't understand how he can forgive Lita and not Edge. It just doesn't make sense to me but whatever I guess I can't really judge since I don't know what went on.

    And yes I agree with you about Shelton. Hell Benoit was super over and couldn't cut a promo either, ditto for Jeff Hardy. Unfortunately I think Shelton got depushed based on his race. I mean the only real successful African American wrestlers in the WWE in the past 26 years or so have been The Rock (who was half black and really a once in a lifetime talent) and Booker T. (who was already established as a top guy in WCW before and had a tough time breaking the glass ceiling). I guess you can count Bobby Lashley too even if it was a short reign.
     
  26. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Not a good sign when your #1 contender for the WWE's biggest title is getting zero heat from the crowd and a comedy jobber is getting more of a reaction than Sheamus is. Sheamus just isn't ready nor over and the fans aren't buying it. Again I don't want to keep harping on it but it was a bad idea for the WWE putting him in this position.

    And seriously Mini Me? Was Gilligan or any of the cast of the Brady Bunch not available? It might be time to get a real GM now.

    The only bright spot of RAW once again has been Jericho, yet he's going to get buried at the end of the night yet again by Triple H, I mean did Jericho ever beat Triple H besides from the false title change back in 2000? It was good to see Jericho calling DX out but it did no good to the 40 year old teenagers in the DX snowcaps.
     
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  27. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

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    I agree,it was good to see them involving new guys in the title picture but not guys this new. At first I thought it might turn out ok,but the more I am seeing from Sheamus,I just don't know if he is ready yet. Heck I would have preferred DiBiase or even Swagger before Sheamus.

    In regards to the guest host thing,that was really terrible last night. The guest host thing has lost its newness. It seems they are scraping the barrel for whoever wants to show up on Raw. I just thought last night for the most part was a pretty boring show.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    That was my point all along. I'm all for giving new guys a shot but they should have to earn it first. Again what exactly has Sheamus done since he came to RAW to have him earn a shot at the belt? He beat Jamie Noble, then he beat up Lawler, won a battle royal and beat up Santino. And good call about Swagger, I said all along to give the match to The Miz but Swagger would have been a good choice too. I bet next RAW you'll see the WWE pushing the Jericho/Show vs. DX match as the main event and use that as the selling point for the PPV. They have to be concerned that the fans were literally silent during Sheamus interview and only popped from Santino came out and when he went through the table. And it was the 'oh my god I'm too stunned to do anything' silence it was the 'ok I'm bored why should I care about this guy' silence.
     
  29. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    .....you know what, they might as well give MVP the title shot.
     
  30. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I was thinking the same thing the other day. He's being wasted carrying around dead weight Henry. They might as well turn him heel again, where he was much better anyway, and give him a shot. At least he's over and gets reactions out of the crowd.
     
  31. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Heck, you don't even have to turn him heel.
     
  32. TheAnswer385

    TheAnswer385 Stay Low Run Free

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    Kevin Nash just said hes thinking about getting the old band back together.
     
  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    True but I think his character is better as a heel and RAW is really lacking good heels at the moment.
     
  34. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Tell Kevin Nash not to bother, no one wants to see the old band again.
     
  35. charlestonphan

    charlestonphan Junior Member

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    read on prowrestling.net that the daughter of AWA wrestler Greg Gagne, and granddaughter of promoter and many time AWA Champion Verne Gagne has been charged with a couple felonies for having sex with a male student at the Minnesota H.S. where she worked as a substitute teacher.

    not that it matters to the story, but it's the same H.S. that has produced Joe Mauer, Dave Winfield, and Paul Molitor.
     
  36. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Understandable.

    In my alternative opinion though, considering that they are lacking in the amount of heels, why not just pit a wrestler against a wrestler for the title regardless of whether or not they are face or heel? I mean, ECW Championship will be contested in a ladder match between Shelton Benjamin and Christian, and it will probably be the best match of the night. Just saying.
     
  37. Thunderbolt89

    Thunderbolt89 Well-Known Member

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  38. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Yikes. I wonder what the heck happened? Blood coming from the nose makes me think it was some type of trauma with the brain (if not the obvious drug overdose situation). Possibly an aneurysm?

    Sad.
     
  39. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    wow that sucks. thoughts and prayers to umaga and his.
     
  40. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Well I'm never against having a face vs. face or heel vs. heel match if it is a good match and makes sense. The only reason why I would want MVP or someone else to be a heel is because looking at the RAW roster who are the top main event heels besides Orton, Jericho or the Big Show (2 out the 3 aren't even 'real' RAW wrestlers)? They have tons of mid level faces on the roster but no heels, which is a hgue problem. I wonder if they're waiting for Edge to come back as a heel to RAW or if they're going to do a heel turn with Triple H or HBK or switch CM Punk over to RAW. Because they need a clear plan headed into the Rumble and I doubt they will go with Cena/Sheamus 2 there.

    EDIT: Obviously my prayers go out to Umaga, that's some scary stuff right there.
     

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