Those times usually come from NFL pro days. What tends to happen is that sophomores and junious often run unofficially at their respective schools pro day and that information is quietly disseminated. If a kid doesn't do that, then the number is usually rounded up a little if they've developed or down a little if they've suffered a serious leg injury from when they ran at things like the Nike Summer Camps that they attended before leaving high school. As for Tate, I would think he's a 4.48 type runner. But I would think he has a quicker than average timing over the first ten yards and a very quick time over the first three yards.
Yeah the Marvin Austin 4.69 at 294 lbs is a legit time from his Elite College Combine coming out of high school. A lot of times they get their times from either something like that or like you said pro days, camps, etc.
Mardy Gilyard legitimately stood up and walked out on Brian Kelly in the coach's final meeting with Cincy when he broke the ND news to the team. To me that is a sign of leadership and passion, with Kelly not finishing up what they started having gone undefeated to this point. Gilyard is Cincy's emotional leader, and they are going to come to play with an attitude like that.
True, but to be devil's advocate, at the same time Mardy should respect the man who built up a team/program that let him shine and develop better as a player in the first place. Where would Mardy be now if it weren't for Kelly? Is every Junior declaring for the draft considered "letting down his team" and turning his back on his fellow players? Posted via Mobile Device
he's a kid TP..let him be emotional, i thought it was cool as sh%$.... Good way to start your career Kelly.... Dont you think if Kelly was the only choice of ND, and that he had been their target for a long time, they would of waited 3 more weeks?. Not sure if ive ever seen players talk like that, did you hear what the other kid said from cincy..it was somethin like."were gonna show that it was always about the players and not the coach".. The only coach good enough to beat karma has been Saban... Kelly...ND...shady.
So a coach looking out for his family and doing what is right for him is shady and players doing it is not? Unfortunately with the way the schedule is and the work a new coach needs to put in to salvage a recruiting class Kelly needs to get to work at Notre Dame.
I could argue either point, but I just chose to be devil's advocate. I actually like Mardy a lot and respect the gesture he made bc of the intension he had behind it. The kid has heart and passion. I disagree with how he carried it out though, but that can be racked up to a normal lack of maturity for his age while letting his emotions get the best of him. Kelly came in and turned that program around in just a few years, and in the process made them an offensive powerhouse. If he didn't take on the coaching role, would they still be in the gutter right now? Would their offense be the powerhouse it is now? Probably not IMO. If they're not a powerhouse then what kind of exposure etc does Gilyard get? How much does he get to use his skills so that they can be as fine tuned like they are now? I would think not as much. So to me, it's very possible that if Mardy played for a non-prolific, mediocre offense for a 3-9 team that we might be seeing him rated as a 4th rounder. Who knows. So to me he owes Kelly a few million bucks, not walking out on him. LOL. But, that's just me being the PITA that I am. Posted via Mobile Device
It shows passion, but I think at the Combine in interviews, the walkout and the comments about taking the cash are going to be looked upon as petulence.
ND was rumored to be in contact with Kelly in 2008 as well and there's been several reports in Cincinnati that hey had officials meet with him twice during the regular season... Kelly spoke at one of the Anthony Munoz camps I worked at and came off as a scumbag so it didn't surprise me that he left. As for Gilyard, I never heard of him standing up and walking out of Kelly's meeting, only that he was the last one out of the room and came out by himself, save for the team MVP trophy he got.
Like i said, dont you think if ND had him pegged all along, they would of waited for the man to finish his committment on a undefeated season, would the school not have hired him if he said, "i must finish this season with the kids that committed to me and gave me everything they had for an undefeated season..If ND would of said, "take it or leave it"..now!!....then did they really want him so much to begin with?..3 weeks man. Hey i understand the whole recruiting factor..but iam sorry, i would of liked to of seen the man stand up to the system, and not just completely abandon them, leaving a trail of hatred and disgust from his players and fans.. I just think the circumstances warranted a different type plan of action. He left them right before the biggest game of their lives...what if they were playing for a national championship, what if texas loses that game and cincy moves up?.then what?...Well, then he stays, right?....ND waits? right?, surely if they had such conviction in letting this man take over this monumental task, for such a VERY rich program, they could of waited 3 weeks? Hell, i may be wrong, there might just be some things that iam not aware of that just make it impossible for him to coach that last game.... Bottom line..he may of been able to do both.
well, if that's true, then they sure as hell would of waited 3 more weeks then, right?.... He left a nasty dirty trail to the golden domers...i thought that was a good catholic school, with morals and values?.. Hate to repeat myself, but what if texas loses that game and cincy gets slotted in the champ game?...hmmmmm. Talk about an indirect slap in the face to the BCS...guess that game isnt important enough to keep him coaching in it.
This I agree with. If I were ND, I'd want to know that Kelly would like to finish out his season. It shows loyalty and dedication, 2 qualities I want in a coach. If he can do it to them, then he can do it to us would be my impression. Not to mention, if recruits are what's important to ND and Kelly right now, then I would have to believe that more recruits would want to play for him at ND if they saw him stick out the Cincy season with his current players to show that he cares tremendously about them. It's like a parent not attending their kid's graduation.
Exactly..and why has'nt the question been posed to either the University or Kelly as to what the plan would of been if texas loses that freakin game.. I mean seriously, think about that, if Cincy is playing alabama for the BCS national championship...then what?, I mean ND would of had to respect THAT? right?.....and if they did'nt, how thorough was their search and how much conviction do they have about the coach in the first place?. It took them a week to sign a coach, who i guess, would of not been hired if he had chose to coach the team in the BCS game for his undefeated 3rd ranked squad. Is there not something shady in all this? or am i just missing something that makes it impossible for him to stay for that last game?
Agreed on those points. But just from seeing all the UC games this year, I doubt they'd be able to compete with Alabama, and with their porous run defense, I'd still have doubts about their chances against Florida even if Kelly had stayed, or was allowed to coach through the Sugar Bowl.
I don't think anyone can blame Kelly for taking the most prestigious job in college football. He was offered the job of a lifetime and he jumped on it, I don't blame it. But I also think that Mardy made a statement and fired up his team by walking out on Kelly, and I think that it is absolutely tough to be an undefeated team heading into a BCS bowl game with your head coach quitting on you. He is the team leader, and he is sending a message to his team that they can still accomplish their goal of being undefeated and to not let this get the down. As for the comments about the NFL Combine, don't forget this incident when trying to judge Gilyard's character: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNyB3IkKd7Q"]YouTube- Mardy Gilyard crashes into kid, then hugs him[/ame]
no one here is saying he shouldn't have taken the job. We're questioning how he went about it. You're not addressing our argument. Posted via Mobile Device
I'm addressing the comments about Gilyard's reaction being a negative or a positive for his draft stock. It was a ballsy move and I respect the hell out of it as a team leader. Sure, it would have been easier for him to say the more media-friendly things and not blame Kelly, but that isn't the way he went about things and his team is going to rally behind his attitude. As for Kelly, I don't think he would have gotten the ND job if he would have stayed with Cincy through the OB. He had to take the job then, they were planning on interviewing UConn's coach, and they need him to start working immediately. While I'm sure he was torn and would have liked to coach Cincy, it wasn't his option, and he took the dream job when he had the offer in front of him. Chris Fowler tried to get an admission from him at the college football awards and he was resepctable in the sense that he didn't make any comments about the ND job and waited to talk to his team. I don't think he went about it the wrong way at all. I just think that Mardy pulled a move that only leaders can even attempt, and I liked the attitude of him walking out on Kelly AFTER Kelly walked out on him.
Curious as to your thoughts on Malcolm Floyd of San Diego (NFL). I keyed on him in the SD/Dallas game and came away very impressed. Impressed enough that with the possible- possible- exception of Dez Bryant I'd take him over any WR in this year's draft. I saw everything that I need to see- hands, size, explosion, speed, field awareness. He went to the top of my WR FA wish list. With him in the fold I'd be comfortable waiting to see what WRs might fall to us in rds 2-3 instead of chasing. And I can't discount the notion that a true #1 would allow our current WRs to fall into place- the notion that we only need one more- albeit a key- WR. And SD has to worry about resigning Vincent Jackson, bully for us. Personally I can still see Dan Willams as our target rd 1- the MLBs Spikes and McClain I could see, but I still have an instinctive reaction to shy away from 1st rd MLBs. Rather have Sean Lee a bit later. And I'm more comfortable with Wake, Anderson, Moses than most, although I do miss Roth, limited as he was in pass pro. The dude stuffed it, bottom line. Anyway, back to Floyd. If you by chance have that game on Tivo my best guess is that midway through the 1st qtr you'll see a 20 yard or so out by Floyd that is just textbook- that one play shows every quality that you need in a #1- breaks off the line quickly and with strength, sweet double move, great explosion out of break, straddles the sideline, extends his huge hands while precisely aware of his proximity to sideline, and cradles the ball in his big softs hands. All gushing aside, I watched him the rest of the game and found nothing not to like.
He may have done all that in that game....but...this is only MHO on Floyd....Floyd does have strength off the line...he does have good hands, he does track the ball well, and he does have some decent double moves on vertical patterns......BUT, and again JMHO......he does not get off the line with "explosion" in fact IMHO he is much better when DB's try to muscle him than play him soft aggressive, he IMHO does not have any particular strength in his game out of his cuts, he is a rather tall guy with long strides and there is only one guy that has his stride that I remember that explode out of cuts and has Floyd's type gate and that is Brandon Marshall, Floyd does play with good awareness both to his field presence and his game knowledge but/and he plays better going away from the LOS or up field crossing than come backs, digs, or finding holes....IMHO he is a more vertical guy than this offense will ever use and his skills are not going to top out anywhere near where Dez Bryants will.....not even close IMHO.......Bryant can cut, IS explosive out of his breaks, tracks the ball well, is quick and uses his hands well and has good hands on the receiving end......not even close IMHO.....I am sure some disagree but that IMHO only and I also think someone will overpay for Floyd somewhere down the line.........
I disagree. And to be clear about it, my exposure to Floyd has been limited, I'm basing this mainly on what I saw yesterday- fortunatley camera angles and replays allowed me to see Floys run patterns from start to finish. He got off the line very well, and his cuts were really good, crisp, especially for a 6-5 225 lb guy. From what I saw the explosion was there, and I know that he can haul straight line. I'm not sure, based on that game, how you can say that Floyd is a long strider with with little explosion out of cuts. Does not compute with me. p.s I probably went a little overboard in the comparison to Dez Bryant, not sure about the others though. My basic point is that I'd feel a heck of a lot better in terms of passing on a WR 1st rd if we had Floyd in the fold. I like Benn very much but I have quesitons- Bryant does seem like the real deal and kind of a sure thing. I do see Floyd on the rise and, jmo, his explosion, especially for such a big guy, was noticeable. Pat Turner should have such explosion- ain't gonna happen, not in the tool bag. BTW- when I say "explosion" I'm talking about speed out of cuts, sharpness of cuts, not explosion off of the line. I thought that Floyd broke the press just fine- I made a point of watching it, saw no problems there. Look again and I'll do the same- Lord knows I've been wrong before- but I maintain that Floyd looks real, real good coming out of his cuts. Poor grammar in that last sentence no doubt, but it seemed to fit.
Point 1...fair enough we all have opinions and we see different things so all is good Jim. Point 2...I am not sure what you saw, see or if i communicated well so I am sure we have lost something in the communication...a guy can have sharp cuts...hell I have sharp cuts but I have to basically stop to do it, Floyd gears down to make cuts.....that is what I see and I do not know what to tell you if you do not see it other than we are watching different guys or seeing different things .... Floyd gears down to make his cuts IMHO unless he is making a double move or redirecting vertically .... which is great because Rivers loves to throw deep, does it very well and that is what they do...just not sure it is what this team will ever do consistently and not sure you want to ante up to get someone to do that only....which it is my opinion that is what Floyd does best. Floyd will fight for the ball and is a big strong guy..he has a lot to offer. Point 3. I personally do not think Floyd's game has changed a lot other than he has learned what he does well and has fit well into what SD does...he is a good fit...but you can go back to his combine days from Wyoming..he is pedestrian other than his 4.44/40 and his size, very pedestrian actually and it is easy from the numbers to see why he was not drafted...and I do know numbers do not tell the whole story...but they can confirm what you are seeing with your own eyes.....IMHO....he does some things well but even his 6.7/60 and a a 4.32 shuttle at the 04 combine just do not show "explosion"... and I do not see it now ... but that is just my opinion and you are entitled to yours and I am not arguing with you about Malcom Floyd...he does not matter that much to my daily life..........I just would much ...MUCH....prefer some other guys for the price Floyd will cost.................. Point 4. To be fair I did not see that game so I cannot comment on that game, and I do not and have not really broken down Floyd's game, I am just going by what I have observed from watching him in the general flow of games.....and what he was coming out, and I knew much more about him then than I do know from REALLY looking ... so please TIFWIW .......... also Floyd to me just seems like he should be making more plays in that offense with what his skills are and as much as he is on the field......
Well, what I saw was sharpness and speed out of cuts. Nothing like the gearing down that you referred to. We'll have to agree to disagree.
Fair enough....hey you are chatting with a guy that likes Jevan Snead better than Jake Locker....thought Sedric Ellis and Larry English were way over rated and also thought Robert Gallery and Vernon Davis could not miss so I am used to being having a contrarian view....and being wrong at times....
Yeah, I saw the Pokes/Chargers game live. Floyd played very well, probably better than I've ever seen him. He's usually a little more inconsistent than that which is a worry given that inconsistency is a forte of our wideouts. But he's big, tall, quick enough, runs decent routes although he can get a little mechanical at times. He also has a propensity to fight the ball. I wonder whether they dumped Chambers so as to be able to re-sign them both.
Ray, I think Miami would like to be vertical. A lot more vertical than you think. Yep, they want a tight end to open up the underneath, but when Henne has the gun he has, you don't keep that locked away in the garage. Check the chunk yards and the way they are trying to use Hartline.
BTW, when I comment on a guy like Floyd, the presupposition is that I'm looking for and seeing stuff that he CAN do, not necessarily that he WILL do over and over. So in my check list I see what I'm looking for and I can tell if the tools are there- I mentioned that Floyd went to the top of my WR FA list, but to flesh that out and be more specific I'm also taking into account signability and price. Would I rather have Brandon Marshall or Vincent Jackson? Yes. They not only have the tools but they've proven that they will consistently turn those tools into production. Floyd has the tools imo and I like him quite a bit, but he still has to prove that he can bring it on a consistent basis. Same for a draftable guy like Benn, but he has built in excuses with Zook and Juice. Bryant- not so much, he's a production machine. So, in short, being able to do it isn't the same as doing it consistently- but yeah, I like Floyd and I would try to sign him. As to the vertical/lateral issue- I paid special attention to that and simply thought that Floyd looked very good laterally, especially for his size. As to what Boomer said, I agree- the vertical component is big. We want and need that deep threat to balance out the offense and make defenses accountable, that's kind of a given. Ginn is able to do that somewhat, but at a terrible cost. Back to Benn, I read things about him being a possession type receiver and I don't get it- yeah, he's big like Boldin but the guy is fast- if he's not a deep threat then I have to question my eyes. Even in a slow production year I can see him run, and dude can move. If Pat Turner comes around there's going to be a log jam at WR- imo if not for Ginn's contract issues he's done. I'm beginning to wonder if we'll keep six next year- dump Ginn and pick up a Floyd or Antonio Bryant in FA and draft one if the right guy is there. IMO the current group blows, but I'll confess that it's difficult for me to point out who's got to go. Bess, Camarillo, Hartline all have their positives, Turner is a wild card who better get it in gear next year. The gaping hole is the one that Ginn wasn't able to fill- do you eat his contract or live with his crapitude for 2 more years? I don't know. The problem with the double barrell approach of Turner/Hartline is that they didn't count on Ginn failing- my best guess- and the speed component remains barren. So hypothetically say you're right- Floyd is little more than a vertical threat- even if that were the case we'd still be better off with him at #1 than having Ginn there. My guess is that Floyd brings much more to the table than that, but as usual only time will tell. This kind of stuff makes for an interesting draft, and that's always a good thing.
Something to think on Boom.......... If you are correct sir....and you usually are ,, then IMHO it brings even more focus on the top end of this draft as to guys that make some sense.....I REALLY get your target list in the other post/thread now.
I think the Braylon Edwards situation will be one to watch this off season. If they let him go, watch for Miami to reunite him with the QB who took Braylon to the Championship Game as a frosh. It says something that around draft time Miami was in serious discussion to send Ronnie Brown to Cleveland for Braylon Edwards straight up.
Seeing as how the Giants defense is so awful, can we trade Gibril Wilson and Reggie Torbor back to them for Mario Manningham? I kid, but only because a Giants friend of mine literally just said that to me. He's so in the dumps about the defense, and he has a high opinion of both Torbor and Wilson in their system, that he'd give up Manningham to get them back.
I like Edwards. He's had some maddening drops, but the guy is a stud. But if we're going to take a chance on a pain in the rear, maybe the Syracuse WR in the 4th. The guy has some baggage for sure, but he doesn't sound any worse than Joey Porter. Henning had an interesting quote recently when asked about problem child WR's- are they worth the headache? After a ling pause he said yes, if they're good enough. Maybe this guy is. I really wouldn't mind rolling the dice on greatness in the 4th, especially if 1-3 are hits. We went safe last year with Hartline in that slot, maybe this year we take a shot, esp if we pass on WR early. A Brandon Marshall type hit would be a godsend for us.
Ive been thinking about the same thing.. Mandich would be happier then a pig in sh#@...Henne, Long and Edwards..The michigan Big Ten trio back again?.. I just watched that 2005 game with Texas..Henne was so good, as lethal in his own way of QBing as Vince young was in his..That game, played from the QB position, was played at a very high level, against many future NFL players. Iam all for a Big Ten reunion..I like the angle.
