the newbies

Stay patient. That's all I can do with respect to those guys. Robert Meachem of the Saints couldn't get on the field for his first 2 seasons. Now, he's killing everybody he faces.

 

We're making a playoff run, that's what happened in my opinion. We need to focus on what is consistently working and keep doing that. Give Ricky the ball, let Chad open up the air attack, and let the defense keep working like a well oiled machine.

All of those things worked well against the Jags. I think next time though we should keep the motor oil far away from Ricky and Bess. Those fumbles are the only reason we didn't absolutely demolish them.

 

Not all draft picks work out. I think you're going to see some major changes in the lineup in this offseason.

 

I agree, but only if our playoff chances die this week or next week. I hold my breath every time I see Pat White suit up. The boy needs another year or two at least before I'll feel at ease seeing him come out and do his thing.

 

White has had his package reduced because he is now the #2 QB and he probably is not ready for that at this point.They can't afford to spend time implementing his packages AND have him ready to run the tradition offense at a moments notice. What's he is doing now is basically a compromise allowing them to get him slowly acclaimated to game speed while and noting how defenses react while still spending the bulk of his time with his #2 duties. Turner is just cold not ready. Or he could be a bust. Either way, we aint in a position to throw him out there and sacrifice production and all that given the state of the offense.

 

"They can't all be winners now can they?"

And it's true. We have a great front office with a nose for talent, but they are human and will make mistakes. Pat White and Pat Turner might pan out eventually, but if not, it's just part of the game. The best of the best GMs don't get every pick right.

 

I don't agree with that sentiment, actually. Two seasons in, I think we're past the "major changes to the lineup" portion of the re-building process. We've got two off-seasons of work done. And we have a lot to show for those two. Chad Henne, Bess, Hartline, Long, Smiley, Grove, Thomas, Starks, Merling, Langford, Fasano, Polite, Carpenter, Davis, Smith, Clemons, and Hilliard. Add to that guys like Ronnie, Ricky, Ginn, Camarillo, Joey, JT, Crowder, Will Allen and Yeremiah Bell. Those guys make up the core of this team. And we've performed this year with guys like Ronnie, Cobbs, Ferguson, Pennington and Will Allen on IR and guys like Crowder, Grove, Smiley, Roth, and Ginn being hurt intermittently. We've built some sembalance of depth on this team now and yeah we'll see some guys go and some guys come but I think the major overhaul portion is done. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

I don't. What we have right now is a core of talented young players at some key positions: QB, CB, DL, OL...and that's good. But we are going, IMHO, to see a BIG lineup change at LB in the offseason---I wouldn't be surprised if all but one of our current LBs is gone. Maybe two. I also expect to see our WR position totally revamped. Bess will stay, but I think he's the only sure thing.
At running back...it may not be this offseason for the RB position, but by next offseason, I doubt either Ricky or Ronnie will be on the team.

 

agreed, the only overhaul will be at LB ... with some changes to the WR, DL (NT), and TE ... otherwise we are in pretty good shape.

 

When has Ginn been hurt intermittently since he's been here? I don't recall any injuries.

 

He must have meant Ginn's pride being hurt intermittently... maybe?

 

IMO Hartline stays too.

 

Turner is still on a bye for me. White on the other hand, wasted pick...Rookie or not, he should be making some kind of impact and he is not. I don't think they are waiting to unveil some new phase of the WC come playoff time (especially since our playoff time began once we lost to the Jills). The guy is a bust...sorry for all those White apologists, but for our money, he's a bust...

 

Our team needs to draft or sign fa's in those areas. Now that Roth is off the team olb and ilb are both needs. Here's my list in order of importance. ILB, OLB, WR, TE, NT. This regime seems to take NT during mid to late rounds and develop them (ie. Ferg and Ratliff). I'm not sure if Solai is the answer but we'll see during the next 3 weeks. Do we have any ps players that are being groomed for the NT?

 

White is a QB so he should take a long time to develop. It was not a pick I would have made, but now that he's here I can't say I'm disappointed in what he's shown. My expectations for a 1st year QB coming from a spread in college are pretty low.

Turner, on the other hand, has been a disappointment. I wasn't crazy about the pick on draft day but it did fit a need. He should have at least flashed something and got on the field. This is nothing like Meachem who was behind a good WR corp that had a 4th year Devery Henderson, and Colston and Moore who exploded. Turner is behind one of the worst WR corps in the league. He didn't even flash in preseason. At this point there is less reason to believe in Turner than there was to believe in Brandon London or Derek Hagan.

 

+1000 I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. Too bad he can't be taught a new position like wr.

 

too bad you people dont seem to comprehend that 2nd round pick, pat white, did more in his first year then 2nd round pick chad henne did in his first year.

i dont remember people crying about a wasted pick while henne was riding the pine. white is a QB. a back up QB right now. if you are disappointed with his production to this point then you have nothing to blame besides your unrealistic expectations.

im begining to think that all these pat white haters are just jon beck lovers that have something against white, since he took becks spot on the team.

there is a staff of people who are paid ridiculous amounts of money to make these decisions. obviously pat white brings more to the table then jon beck did. so get over it already. stop hating on a kid for no good reason.

as far as patrick turner not getting any playing time behind a group of receivers that everyone knows isnt good enough.... i can understand some being disappointed with that pick. but atleast that is something to complain about.

 

Pat Turner in my opinion hasn't seen the field not because he can't be a better reciever it's because he can't be trusted to play special teams. Therefore the wr in front of him, hartline, who has been very good on special teams gets the roster nod.

it's about availability with what the teams need is right now. Common sense more than anything.

Pat White, is a back up qb. I didn't like the pick much either, because a different position might have been better but when the pick was made we still didn't know what henne would do when his chance came. Having another young qb learning the system isn't a bad idea. It just seems bad because he doesn't have an effective on field role right now. But he is a second round pick that is now more than likely going forward going to be a backup qb or trade bait. This is Henne's team now. Pat's on field role will diminish even further.

The pat white pick is a matter of perspective though. At the time of the pick he figured to be another on field option for us. And a potential qb for us over time. Remember though we used that pick from the Redskins for basically renting JT out for only one year. That's a cheap price to pay to have Pat White even as a backup qb who can be used in certain situations in the future. So although a different player may have been better it's not all bad. And the price wasn't very bad either.

Turner will get his shot, and another offseason to work with Henne should improve his chances. I wouldn't come to the conclusion that he isn't playing this year because he's no good. It's a matter of position availability and for a rookie wideout there is only usually one wideout spot. Hartline is more versatile via special teams. There fore he wins the position.

 

Well one of the things that was said about Hartline as the only reason he is starting this year, is that he picked up on the playbook extremely fast, and has proven he can play all the WR positions, as well as ST.

If Turner excels in only one department as a WR, that's fine, so long as he is leaps and bounds excelling.

 

When Ronnie returns, pat white will continue to evolve alongside the wildcat.for now, he's our #2 QB...thats a big deal, give the youngster time to let the game slow down for him.

Name me another rookie spread QB thrown into the fire in their first year in hi pressure situations...

The pick is a part of a vision, which requires patience...Ronnie and Pat imo, will evolve the formation together while Pat continues to prepare for being #2.

Anyone see how philly used Vick and Mcnabb last nite....stuff that ronnie and Pat could execute as well... What cribbs is doing in clevaland {a player with good formation specific skills, #2 to ronnie} is to be taken seriously.

The formation has so much potential, as long as ronnie brown is the leader, and Pat white is his interchangable sidekick.

Why Hate Pat white?, the kid's a frekin rookie, with a lot on his plate...I back the pick because i respect and like the vision for the formation.

 

Most likely. He's shown a lot of talent. I kinda forgot about him, to be honest. But I think the other three WR positions are going to be seeing a turnover.

 

Pat White has been asked to do basically one thing this year: run the ball. He's shown he isn't as good at doing that against pro competition as he was against college competition.

 

I think he meant Ginn has sucked intermittently.

 

TOTALLY agree....they are asking a lot of him....a package of plays and be prepared to lead the team at a moments notice...much more than the majority of 1st year NFL quarterbacks. Henne is a keeper, for a long time....but I believe White and his strengths add a dimension to our team. IMHO I would prefer him as our back up (even long term) versus Beck, McCown, Lemon, etc...

 

Pat White in a multi purpose, play maker role was a reach at #44.....as a back up QB, it's the worst pick this FO has made yet to date.

Looking forward to the day they wake up

 

What formation is that tho?..........he's not even part of the wildcat. He's got his own spread offense thing, where they call college plays that for the most part, look like a waste of time.

I want nothing to do with Pat White becoming part of our bag of tricks nor do I want him being developed as a drop back passer.

I'd like to see them start working with him on returning kicks/punts and at WR.....to me anything else is a waste of our time and that high 2nd round pick. Drafting back up QB's and situational players in the second round is how you end up with holes in your line up.

 

and im looking forward to the day you give up on making a QB into a WR simply because he can scramble. ive never seen some one so adamant about something with absolutely nothing to back up their assumptions.

 

not to be a jerk BUT with all the things we have that we could be talking about why bring up a couple guys that have had little to no impact on our team?

 

No way Hartline is going anywhere. The guy is a good ST player and is going to have over 30 catches by the time the season is over. I see him as a 40-50 catch a season type of guy.

 

It's way to early to start complaining about lack of production from these players. For Turner, it usually takes WR's 3 seasons to really come into their own and reach their potential. A guy like Roddy White didn't get to that level until his 4th year, so give him some time. Not all players can waltz into this league and make a name for themselves.

In White's case it's a bit different, while he still deserves the patience that other players get, he's really a man without a position. He's not a very good QB prospect to begin with, Henne is our man for the future, where does that leave White? Did we spend a precious 2nd rounder on a backup QB or are we going to try White somewhere else? If we play him at WR, we spent a 2nd rounder on a WR with zero experience at the position, so it may take him much longer to reach his potential than a player who has played the position since highschool.

So you may not see instant results, but that doesn't mean that the players aren't capable. Give them time, have some patience and we'll see how they pan out.

 

Guys, keep the comments civil and on-topic. Thanks

 

Yeah what happened to that bum Carson Palmer his first season. High draft pick, no production, no projection, no nothing.

Sitting on the bench a year isnt always a bad thing.

 

While I don't think he meant that at all, I can agree with you about Ginn.

 

That's not true, he had a very good 3rd year. His 4th year was barely better.

Vincent Jackson took 4 years however. Same for TJ Houshmandzadeh. And Hines Ward. And Mushin Muhammad. And Donald Driver.

But Roddy White was very good in year 3.

 

Great promise?

I can only say why Pat White is no longer a factor because Brown went down. Turner what is there to say about Turner if he can't get open in at practice?

 

My bad, I thought it was White that took a little longer than usual. Thanks

 

1. Chad Henne is our long-term starter, barring injury.
2. Pat White is no Carson Palmer. He's not even Arnold Palmer.