1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Food for thought, Saban's best year in Miami

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    7-7, there it is, we were 11-5 last season so 7-7 (isn't that a cocktail?) seems like a disappointment?

    Or does it?

    Lil' Nicky Saban was to be the "saviour" of the franchise, the man with the defensive plan, coming from LSU and a national title, Wayne H pursued Saban hard, flying out to meet Saban (in CA or Central America?) and just would not take "no' for an answer.

    Saban's first year, his best year, we went 9-7, and were darkhorse candidates to win a WC after starting out 1-7. However by this time in 05 we had been functionally eliminated, but the praise that was heaped on Saban that offseason, SI picked us to make the Super Bowl in 06, was ultimately underserved, Saban attempted to rig up a very veteran defense with a addled trade for Daunte Culpepper, and it just did not work out, Saban infamously left for Alabama and we got Cam Cameron in his place.

    Point being, Saban at his very best was not even as good as Sparano with a tougher schedule and more injuries, this is high cotton for a Dolphins franchise that had a 4 yr marks of 2-14, 9-7, 6-10 and 1-15.

    This is also a fundamentally different team than the Saban squad, younger on the Oline, younger at Qb, younger on the defensive line, heading into the final 2 games and this offseason, the future of the Dolphins is much brighter than it was when Nick Saban was being hailed as a "genius".

    Enjoy it, keep in mind as well unlike the Wanny and Saban era, we have all of our draft picks and are heading into an uncapped year with Stephen Ross himself commenting that we need a better Wr's, meaning he acknowledges the problem and perhaps, or almost certainly, will open the checkbook to acquire a #1 type Wr.

    Strange days indeed fellow phinfans.
     
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    Personally, I think Saban was a great coach. I think had he stayed here, we probably would have been a playoff team. Super Bowl? Most likely not.

    Biggest issue with Saban was trying to run a front office and entire organization himself. He isn't a GM, but he tried to be one. He put too much on his plate, and when the media started going after him, it hit a boiling point.

    Sparano is a great coach, but he has the good fortunes of having Parcells and Ireland shopping for his groceries.
     
    dolfan7171 and Stitches like this.
  3. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

    3,415
    1,557
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    This is the thing that I think is most absent in the fans consideration. I have never seen a coach that would not "scorch the earth" for a win today. The coach is the one in the bunker with the troops. How did George Allen say it?

    "Every time you lose, you die a little bit."

    That guy isn't worried about tomorrow. An organization will always need a big picture guy.
     
    Stringer Bell likes this.
  4. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

    20,459
    14,210
    113
    Apr 2, 2008
    Coral Springs, FL
    Saban, to me, was another Wannstedt. Although, if the Medical staff gives him the ok to sign Brees over Culpepper I don't think we're having this conversation right now.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I doubt that SB, imho Saban took a cold hard look at the roster and pulled stumps for Alabama, the Dline was well over 30 and C-pepe had busted out.


    He was an odd duck when it came to the media, there were things like "orders" that no one was to talk to Lil' Nicky during the day.

    Ah, here is one of the gists of my thought, Sparano wins maybe we make the playoffs in back to back years, and he does not receive anywhere near the Credit that Lil' Nicky got for one decent 9-7 season with a half assed playoff run mixed into it.

    I'll give a good example of the difference, with Saban, an Olineman goes out and it instantly became an excuse, a Qb didn't perform, another one, with Sparano he merely plugs a 7th round pick who was waived twice all over the Oline and Nate Garner played well enough that it is not even commented upon.

    Ditto losing Pennington and plugging in Chad Henne, if Nicky lost JT there would be reams of "not his fault" Sparano loses Pennington and no one blinks, quite the opposite, people wanted to see Henne play.
     
    jetssuck and gunn34 like this.
  6. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

    44,356
    22,480
    113
    Mar 22, 2008
    All that is certainly true. But at the same time, Saban didn't have Ireland finding those 7th rounders that could be plugged in.
     
  7. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,475
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    I agree with you Padre31.
     
  8. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

    21,755
    3,475
    113
    Jan 5, 2008
    Oviedo FL
    You're just pointing out another saban flaw.
     
  9. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

    16,657
    5,163
    0
    Aug 4, 2009
    Perfectville
    Saban was a college coach, stumbling thru life in the NFL......and a liar
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    Well, there was an "advisor" either Mueller or Speilman, but what Nicky would do is sign the riskiest free agents imaginable, MacIntosh comes to mind, his ankles were so bad no other team's medical staff would clear him, but for Nicky..a-otay.

    And Nicky tried to find 7th rounders to plug in, only he took them in the 4th and 5th round in Anthony Alabi and Joe Toledo. And that was with the highly paid Oline Coach Houck.

    Sparano and Gugs just find guys, instead of Alabi and Toledo, they have Berger and Garner, and Garner was prepped to play what? 3 Oline positions as well as play at blocking Te?

    Add in one other thing no one, and I do mean no one mentions, we lost Ronnie B and P Cobbs and Sparano and Henning flipped the offense from a run dependent one to a pass heavy offense with a gang of #3 Wr and 1st yr starting Qb.

    Henne is averaging over 300 yds per game over the last 3 or 4 games, that is amazing if one thinks about it, and add in Ricky is sort of spotty, he is just as likely to fumble as to continue a drive.
     
    CashInFist likes this.
  11. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Saban's fortunes turned on one decision, Dante over Drew. Had we gotten Drew, he'd probably still be our coach.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    No, I don't think so, C=pepe was on the comeback trail with a proper rehab, the real problem was the defense just got to long in the tooth and Alabama offered millions and the keys to the program with players who had no choice but to follow Sgt Saban's orders.
     
  13. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

    52,652
    25,565
    113
    Nov 13, 2009
    Why do you speak as if he's left Miami? He's never left, and is absolutely not the Alabama head coach! I'm telling you for the last time.
     
    padre31 likes this.
  14. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

    6,359
    1,671
    0
    Mar 23, 2008
    Los Angeles
    The rebuilding job was much tougher from 2007-2008 than 2004-2005 and it's not even close. It did help that a tackle rather than a RB was available in one draft versus the other though. The 2005 team had a significant amount of talent, the 2007 team was garbage.

    QB- Neither team had a QB, but 2007 wishes it had Sage Rosenfels even.
    RB- The same situation at RB.
    FB- Irrelevant almost, neither team had one like Polite.
    WR- Far better for 2004-2005, with Chambers and Booker as well as hopeful with David Boston.
    TE- McMicheal was still pretty good back then.
    OL- Possibly slightly better in 2007, with a matured Vernon Carey and Satele over utter crap of 2004.
    DL- Still had a young Taylor and David Bowens .
    LB- Thomas was still here and Crowder was coming into the fold.
    DBs- Slightly better before Surtain was traded in the 2004-2005 rebuilding year.

    Overall Sparano had an even tougher job rebuilding job. Righting the offensive line was a major, major success for the team as well as in the infusion of talent on the 3-4 DL. The reason we're in each game is because those two units are solid. The WRs and DBs are poor as are the ILBs. It'll take time, but those positions are usually easier to solve than the invaluable lines.

    What's most interesting about the Miami OL now is that they use a drive-blocking scheme rather than their large zone scheme.
     
    jetssuck and MikeHoncho like this.
  15. HolliFinFan

    HolliFinFan Not a Face Painter Luxury Box

    2,220
    1,480
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    South Florida
    Great thread. Though I rarely contribute to rehashing or hypothetical threads, I am certainly happy that we have a REAL coach now. The NFL is a tough business, yet we have a dedicated, knowledgeable, respected, and emotive when appropriate coach :up:
     
    dolphindebby likes this.
  16. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

    31,949
    11,899
    0
    Nov 24, 2007
    Sagan was an average pro HC, an exceptionally poor judge of pro talent and a martinet with a small-man complex, who alienated staff, players, fans, press and even Dolphins-for-life such as Shula and Marino.

    There's the one-paragraph summary of Saban's pro Head Coaching career.
     
  17. krypto

    krypto Banned

    772
    366
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    What, because of the last 2 games? Give me a break......What a **** comment.....And seriously, what does Saban have to do with what we're doing right now?
     
  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    I'd say the gist is, a "down' year for Sparano is maybe 9-7, a "up and coming contender" year for Saban was 9-7.

    Saban was hailed as a genius, Vanpelt on ESPN radio the described him as a "Gym coach who rolls the kick balls into the gymnasium while he goes out back to smoke a butt".

    The switch from a Wildcat/Power Running offense to a pass happy 300yds per game offense cannot be understated, the Staff just decided that "with Ronnie out we need to pass more", that is amazing to me.
     
  19. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    How many fumbles has Ricky had in the red zone or inside the 35 yd line in the last two games?

    3? 4?
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    All true, however Saban is having his ring kissed then and now, Sparano is sort of an afterthought even after two seasons of some amazing work with some lesser talent or injuries.

    I mean, think of say, the Jets, #1 or #2 running attack, #1 or #2 in Defense, and they cannot throw the ball to win to save their season, Sparano and Henning simply made a game planning shift and Henne went from maybe 180yds per game to 300+ yards per game, that is not easy to do at all.
     
    NaboCane likes this.
  21. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

    2,099
    447
    0
    Dec 16, 2009
    Fort Lauderdale
    Nick Saban....aka Mr Napoleon Complex.
     
    dolphindebby likes this.
  22. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

    1,834
    513
    113
    Jan 3, 2008
    North Carolina
    i'd take Saban back as a coach with a good FO - just like we have now ....

    Saban gets a rap for running away - and while you can't defend that, i'd have done the same thing in his position. The guy got offered ridiculous $$$$$ to go back to a prestigious institution, and an easier job ..... not sure how you'd turn that down -- all while knowing you couldn't fix your QB situation, because you got hosed with Culpepper - and a ****ty GM.

    Fry him if you want ... but that man can coach -- he is going to win a 2d National Championship in a couple weeks.

    who did he have as a GM ... oh yeah .... who was that brilliant mind ....
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    And this is sort of what I mean, why kiss Saban's ring?

    He went 6-10, burned a #2 draft pick, and ran away to Alabama, he was a failure dude, his best year, 9-7 will end up being a down year for Sparano and Co.

    And Saban had the last place schedule in that 9-7 season, not to just dredge up Saban, however let's have some perspective, Sparano deserves even more credit as not only did he clean up Saban's mess, he has won more games in the process of doing so.
     
  24. CashInFist

    CashInFist Well-Known Member

    10,069
    2,624
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    West Virginia

    College Head Coach < NFL Head Coach. They don't even compare!

    Also, Texas will crush bama. Saban deserves it. :lol:
     
  25. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    11,881
    4,834
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Id take Saban as a defensive coordinator or positional coach (though he wouldnt take it hah). Bottom line is he a fantastic college coach, but not cut out for the pro game. Its two ENTIRELY SEPERATE GAMES! Thats why looking to the college ranks is generally a bad idea unless they spend significant time as an NFL Assistant/Coordinator getting to know the changes they will need to make.

    I dont understand the point of this thread. He came, he saw, he con - err, bailed as fast as his lying little legs could take him back to what he does best. I dont fault him for leaving, he was smart enough to know he was in over his head here in the pros. This talk about a "competent front office" for him is garbage - he was the front office and thats how it was going to be.

    He was not going to suffer the ignominity of having a real GM and staff foisted upon him.

    Sparano is head and shoulders a better PRO coach than Saban is/was/will be.
     
  26. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

    4,446
    1,852
    0
    Oct 20, 2009
    North Miami
    Someone being a Great coach and good Gm is the exception to the rule IMO. Today's coach spends more time preparing for games then their players. Studying game film, coaching players, game planning etc.

    I firmly believe that most coaches, even great ones. would be much better off if they weren't trying to be the GM as well. Take a look at us, during the season Ireland and Bill are constantly scouring the active rosters and practice squads of each team in the NFL. Coaches simply do not have enough hours in the day to handle both their coaching duties and those of a GM.

    Unfortunately their is what appears to be a shortage of good GM's to go around, or at least that's my perception.
     
  27. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

    99,377
    37,301
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    inching to 100k posts
    The bolded is sort of the point Tx, Sparano does not get the rep that Saban has gotten (rightly or wrongly) and the thread is merely comparing contrasting the two coach's time in Miami.

    I've watched Alabama games and per usual the announcers gush over lil' Nicky, but they never, and I do mean never, mention his time with the Dolphins Organization.
     
  28. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

    72,658
    35,312
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    Charlotte NC
    speaking of saban......he drafted derek hagan no? he just scored for the giants lol
     

Share This Page