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who should be gone in 2010?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Dolphins1Beatles, Dec 27, 2009.

  1. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    How about looking one post down from the one you quoted? I know there was a lot of space between them and all.

    You said Bell ALWAYS makes plays which is a straight up- bold faced lie. It is an exaggeration.

    This will be the 1st year Wilson won't have an INT. Every other year he has had 2 or more, and that went on for 5 seasons. You know how many picks Bell has in his 77 game career? 3. Oh, but Bell ALWAYS makes plays. Yea Bell made a key sack a few weeks ago, but Wilson doesn't make plays even though he has half a sack less than Bell on the year? Nope, Bell ALWAYS makes plays. :rolleyes: Wilson didn't just have a big year in OAK, he has had a very good year every year he has started at SS throughout his career.

    Bell would look like garbage too if he were playing FS, because he sure as hell doesn't look great at SS, he looks serviceable.

    And if you think Wilson consistently misses tackles, but Bell hasn't missed his fair share, then I'd have to question whether you watch each game in their entirety. For Wilson's miss on Dallas Clark in week 2, Bell did the same thing to Tony Gonzales in Atlanta. Both went for TDs. One just happened to be 20 yards downfield. Wait I forgot, that couldn't have been Bell's fault because he ALWAYS makes plays.

    You want to say he has made more plays this year, after having the benefit of being here for numerous years as well as the benefit of not playing out of position, fine. But at least don't try paint one player as caricature, while the other as a god. They've both ****ed up plenty, and both have made some good plays.
     
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  2. bbqpitlover

    bbqpitlover Well-Known Member

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    This is my list and how I feel, sorry.
    1.Ted Ginn
    2.Ted Ginn
    3.Ted Ginn
    4.Henning
    5.Crowder
    6.Joey Porter
     
  3. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I can help you guys :knucks:


    They both suck and we need to replace them
     
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  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Both positions could definitely be upgraded, only one player needs to go though.
     
  5. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    I never want to see another Raiders castoff signed by us, the only player worth acquiring on that team is Louis Murphy.
     
  6. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Because Jake Grove has been so terrible?
     
  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't agree with that kind of stance. Mining bad teams for misused or poorly developed talent is good front office work.
     
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  8. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    When he's healthy he is a great Center. He's an exception.
     
  9. NoCalFinFan

    NoCalFinFan ALLLLRIGHT MIAMI!!!

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    All I'm asking is that you name one time where Wilson has made a play at a critical moment that has changed the tide of a game. You can't, because he hasn't. It isn't like Wilson hasn't had opportunities, he has. IMO this just makes Wilson a choke artist.

    Now I've named several instances where Bell has come through with a big play at a critical time, and there are many more. You aren't arguing with those facts, so I'm guessing you agree they aren't "exaggerations".

    So ultimately you believe a player who has invariably made key plays throughout his career is equivalent to a guy who can't make an INT when the ball hits him in the hands simply because the career stat sheets seem to be close.

    That really isn't the same my book, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  10. RJones13LAL

    RJones13LAL New Member

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    ummmmmmmmm............Nhamdi Asomugha is only one of the best cornerbacks in the league.
     
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  11. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    CB shouldnt be a need, assuming all goes well.
     
  12. Merauder

    Merauder Perseverance

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    Who should be gone in 2010? He has gray hair, is about 80 years old, has been calling plays in the NFL for more than 30 years, and STILL can't get it right.
     
  13. NoCalFinFan

    NoCalFinFan ALLLLRIGHT MIAMI!!!

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    You really know how to make friends....

    A widely accepted definition for the word always:
    2: seemingly without interruption; often and repeatedly; "always looking for faults"; "it is always raining"; "he is forever cracking jokes"; "they are forever arguing" [syn: {forever}]

    Its clear from the context, this is what I mean by "always" - to me Bell seems to make plays "often and repeatedly"... I've backed this up with facts you agree with. But you want to insult me anyways - real easy from behind a keyboad.

    If the only way you can deal with things you don't agree with is to call them lies, then you are in denial. Hey, whatever gets you by.
     
  14. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    Tedd Ginn he definitely wasn't shown any love this year.

    I can't believe he wasn't picked to go. Hawaii is nice this time of year. Oh ****...........you meant go as in off the team....wait..........I didn't...........:shifty:
     
  15. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I can’t believe Y. Bell is in question. He is the only constant in this defense. The stops on DeAngelo Williams and Wes Welker were two wins. Add to that - the only guy with 100 tackles. Please.
     
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  16. NoCalFinFan

    NoCalFinFan ALLLLRIGHT MIAMI!!!

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    :up:

    Interesting that Bell has more PDs and INTs playing SS than Wilson has FS. IMO, Bell makes the most of his opportunities.

    Wilson apologists will say he plays is out of position, but Wilson has had plenty of opportunities to make plays. Last week a sure INT bounces off is hands. Against Tenn, a TD pass wizzes by his earhole. And up until last week, he still hasn't figure out that he needs to give the CBs help up top. I mean 15 weeks + preseason + minicamp, and he's a vet still making mistakes. Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in learning much more than basic schemes at SS if he were to play there.

    While I agree that Bell can be upgraded, Wilson isn't the upgrade - rather a big downgrade. If the Tri keeps Wilson at SS and lets go of Bell, we'll be hurting bad.
     
  17. 2socks

    2socks Rebuilding Since 1973

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    I like Bell over Wilson any day of the week.

    I concur doctor, I concur:lol:
     
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  18. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    Ted Ginn and Dan Henning need to go for sure. Id like to see porter and taylor stay another season. We also need a safety so id like to see Gibril gone.
     
  19. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here we go. It's Wilson apologists now?
     
  20. NoCalFinFan

    NoCalFinFan ALLLLRIGHT MIAMI!!!

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    Its not like Wilson is a Ted Ginn - Ginn has actually made plays that have won games this season.

    FYIW, there are plenty of people saying its "Playing out of position" and "playing with rookies" that make Wilson look bad. I say the dropped INTs, TD passes wizzing by his earhole, and key missed tackles at the end of the Saints and Indy games make Wilson look like a bum.

    If people want to write off Wilson inability to make plays as simply the FS position and rookies, then yes, they are making apologies for a guy who simply cannot play quality pro football.
     
  21. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not comparing Ginn and Wilson. I don't understand why someone has to be called an apologist just because they prefer one player over another. Should we call you a Bell apologist just because you prefer him over Wilson?

    Now about Wilson's poor play. The excuses you listed are why he has been playing poorly. They are legitimate excuses. He's not a natural FS, which is why he's been beat multiple times. He has to cover up for two rookie corners. He has to cover up for the terrible play of our Inside Linebackers. That is why he looks bad. If you put Bell in the same situation, he might look twice as bad.
     
  22. NoCalFinFan

    NoCalFinFan ALLLLRIGHT MIAMI!!!

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    First, if Bell were playing bad and I were making excuses, then yea, I'd be apologizing. But Bell isn't playing bad. The only specific criticism of Bell's play I've seen in this thread pertains to him getting beat by Andre Johnson one on one last year. That is pretty weak criticism, and I really don't need to apologize for that.

    Second, I'm not the one who framed the conversation as Bell v. Wilson. There are some that point to Bell's salary and claim that Wilson would be just as good. I don't agree. Case in point - Bell has better pass defense numbers as SS then Gerbil at FS. That is just silly.

    Third, you can point to out of position, but Wilson was in position to make the pick of a tipped pass last week. He was in position to stop Shocky from getting a couple huge gains in the Saints game. He was in position to stop Dallas Clark from waltzing into the endzone at the end of the Indy game. He was in position to defend a TD pass from a gimpy QB in Tenn. In those key and critical situations, it wasn't a mental error, or playing out of position, or rookies messing things up - the Gerbil just failed to execute. I don't see how play SS will make his execution any better.
     
  23. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bell isn't playing well. Tight Ends have been killing us this season, and he is mainly responsible for that. The putrid play of our ILBs hasn't helped him out either.

    Your mistake is that you are looking at this year alone to judge Wilson's career. Look at his career numbers. When he is playing SS, his natural position, his numbers are much better. Better than Bell's. He has 10 more picks. Alot more tackles. And more PD as well. He is younger than Bell by 3 years, and can come at a much cheaper price. That is why he can replace Bell.

    Like I said, he's playing terribly this season because he is out of position. He was in position to make plays a true FS would make. Plug him back at SS, and his numbers and play would look much better.
     
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  24. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    The FO needs to take a long look at itself in the mirror for the Wilson signing..........they keep making mistakes like that and Ted Ginn may be around here longer than they are.

    The third highest paid Safety in the league..........unbelievable
     
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  25. FinsAreLife

    FinsAreLife Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this list with the exception of Joey
     
  26. PhiNomina

    PhiNomina White-Collar Redneck

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    Does anyone know if the CBA will mean that there will be no cap hit this year?

    For instance, Ginn's cap hit would be around $5.7 million to cut and I believe around $2.9 to keep on the roster. If there is a cap hit I would say we keep him for the sake of he may turn it around - if there is no cap hit, then it may be a good time to part ways with bad contracts (this post was really more about Wilson or Bell's contract but I knew Ginn's figures off the top of my head.)
     
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  27. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The stone cold reality of the situation is these things happen. Your Free Agents can bust. Look at what has happened to New England with their attempts to find pass rushers. Adalius Thomas might have been the biggest FA the year he was signed, and he's been at best mediocre. Not to mention the 3rd round pick they paid for the crater that was Derrick Burgess.
     
  28. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    And I disagree with this list. Why is everyone judging Ginn on ONE season where he struggled? Seems quite silly to me.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  29. NoCalFinFan

    NoCalFinFan ALLLLRIGHT MIAMI!!!

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    Are you really say Bell is bad in coverage? He's got better PD numbers than our start FS!:lol:

    Can you even name specifics, or are you just going with a generalized 'the D got beat by TE and so it must be the SS' line of reasoning.....

    Let me give you a hint - You will be hard press to find a specific instance where he lost to a TE, since we usually get beat by TEs when Bell is covering the slot. Teams have devised ways to isolate the TE on our putrid LBs, and that is what is killing us.

    Bell is not responsible for TEs killing us. So Bell is guilty of not being able to cover two people at once, and you want to replace him with a guy who can't cover one man with help????


    Career numbers???? What are you joking???? Wilson has over 30 more start at SS than Bell. Of course he's going to have more tackles.


    Um no. Wrong. Read the stat sheet.

    Bell has 34 PDefs, and Wilson has 30PDefs. And Wilson has 30 more starts with a year of FS under his belt. Bell is clearly the better pass defender.

    One more stat that I love about Bell is the FFs. With that 30 game handicap, he's got more FFs than Wilson as well.
     
  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    :sidelol:
     
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  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Uh, strong safety by definition is generally the one dealing with tight ends.

    Further, he plays strongside LB in passing situations, which also overwhelmingly covers tight ends.

    Both Wilson and Bell have been bad this year.
     
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  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    What a thoughtful post. /sarcasm

    Ginn did alright in limited reps his rookie year. He did do pretty well last year. This year he's struggled, no doubt, but it's not like he's had these problems every year. He's the fans whipping boy this season...he took that mantle fr Ronnoe Brown.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  33. larfo2224

    larfo2224 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    We need to get rid of Porter, Ayodele and only keep Jason Taylor if he is going to be used in a limited role. We need to focus on ILB and OLB that can actually put some pressure on the QB.

    Bell needs to go if for no other reason than his 14M roster bonus. Way to much for someone that does not make the type of impact we need from his position

    Not sure who I would prefer to see gone from the receiving corps, but I will echo someone else's comment earlier. If we get a true #1 WR, then I would keep Ginn and probably let Cammy go. We have Hartline to replace him and he should get even better next year.
     
  34. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    Yes, he has not produced consistently in the entire time he's been here. He's had a few individual good games, but he has not just had one bad year...he's had a very mediocre career in the pros, short as it's been. He was drafted with the ninth overall pick and he's never shown himself worth that.
     
  35. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    could be/maybe:
    1) GinnJr. (is a very expensive bust) hope we can get something for him
    2) JoeyPorter will not be missed w/Taylor & Wake
    3) YeremiahBell is expendable, will keep Wilson. don't need two starting SS's.
    4) JustinSmiley is on a slippery slope due to injuries & salary
    5) hope not, but could lose Ronnie if he doesn't negotiate down w/ his contract
    6) Pennington
    no one can second guess this FrontOffice. play to expectation or go to the wall
     
  36. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    That's true....and you could also say that missing on FA and draft picks is why there are teams that have caught up to and appear to be passing them by. Like the Saints for instance, who needed a safety and instead of getting desperate and over paying a cast off, signed Sharper to a one yr deal for 1.7 mil.

    One of those paths leads you to being in contention, the other leads to the unemployment line.

    Yeah "it happens"......it also happens to keep you at home on the couch in January.
     
  37. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    Why not?
     
  38. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    how much success have you had doing it?
    having said that
    it does make for a post & the stuff of forums
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No way we get rid of three LBs. I don't think anyone would be comfortable with starting Torbor, Moses, Wake, or a rookie. I think we add LBs, but the only one I can see as likely to be gone next year is Porter.
     
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  40. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I'm sure you are trying to insinuate we were desperate and overpaid for Wilson (if not I apologize, and please say so as I will gladly retract my remark), but I'm not sure how someone could say that considering at what point of the offseason Wilson was signed.
     

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