Official WWE/TNA Wrestling Thread

To be honest I was VERY dissappointed in how the WWE used Bret Hart last night. I know he is to be around for the next couple of months, but outside of the HBK thing and the Vince ending, he was really only showed one other time. Quite frankly, I thik they should have had him on quite a bit more. Plus, I think they missed an opportunity to pop the crowd at the end when he came out to confront Vince by not playing his music. The crowd would have gone ape**** once the guiter twang started up, but no.

Maybe it was a decision of Bret's though. A vanity thing. He did not look to great and I will never understand why seemingly every wrestler insists on wearing denim shorts. All those did was make Bret look amazingly short and stubby. Throw on some damn pants already.

As for TNA, I initially thought the Nasty Boys were there for a one time gig, seeing as how close they are to Hogan. But after they ransacked the Dudley's locker room, I knew that they were here for a while longer and got depressed.

I thought the build up for Hogan was really well done, the execution of a few matches was piss poor. That first match was awful. That cage is just downright terrible and didn't allow Homicide to actually escape like he was supposed too. Instead he had to go out a side entrance while everyone else just kind of stood there. And Why did Hardy attack him and not the champ?

I don't mind seeing Waltman and Hall as I think those two guys can still contribute on some level (Waltman in the ring and Hall s a bully/enforcer type), but guys like Orlando Jordan, The Nasty Boys, and a few others just aren't needed.

The Pope-Desmond Wolfe match was good, as was Styles-Angle. Of course, since they hot shotted the main event, I now have no clue as to what they will do for the PPV, but overall, it was nice to care about both show for a night.

 

Well if the WWE wasn't going to use Bret for a HBK angle I'm glad they got it out of the way as soon as possible and had closure for that storyline, I do wonder if it's all storyline or if they made up for real. Hopefully they did because after reading Bret's book and seeing a million interviews with him since 1997 I feel it would help him to put it all behind him.

I think it's obvious the WWE is pushing towards a Hart/McMahon type match for WM which is kind of depressing. I really don't want to see Bret beat up Vince or even try to wrestle again. I understand why they only used Bret a few times (HBK, Jericho, Vince) because it all made sense. Not sure what else Bret could have done outside of an awkward staredown with Triple H or something like that.

I do think the lack of big surpises besides Bret shows people that they don't care about having to worry about TNA. Maybe that was one of the reasons why they didn't go all out.

As for TNA, the Nasty Boys are just pathetic and a waste of time. Why not give two new indy guys a chance to get over with the Dudleys instead of two real fat guys who haven't drawn a dime since what 1990ish? And even then their drawing power was limited.

I see absolutely nothing positive coming from bringing in Waltman or Hall to tell you the truth. Sure Hall is good on the mike and Waltman might still be able to wrestle a bit but would you trust them to stay out of trouble? I'd bet that they'll both be gone by April. And I agree Orlando Jordan is a waste too.

I don't blame TNA for doing an Angle/AJ match to showcase the talent, it would have been cool to see Hardy attack AJ at the end of the night though in my opinion.

 

Brett had a stroke a few years back,this is about all they can use him for

 

yep, beat me to it... you can tell his movement is slightly limited on one side of his body. i cannot see him back in the ring for more than a run in where he is protected.

totally agree about the clam-digger denim shorts. it is a bad look for a 45 year old guy.

was good to see him and HBK's "hatchet burying" on TV. i don't know if it was for real, BUT one thing they said was completely true: they both have had remarkable careers and neither should be defined by Montreal. put it behind you, boys.

i really didn't watch TNA except during commercials of the Fiesta Bowl. and some switching back and forth. i Tivo'd RAW though, and have watched the opening segment with Bret. good stuff. ashame from what i have read here he was only used then and at the end of the show.

i was hoping maybe he would use his guest host authority to book a DX vs Hart Dynasty match on the spot, and change the tag-team straps to the youngsters, after i saw Y2J was jobbed out.

 

OH... and btw, John Cena did the coin toss for the Fiesta Bowl, so for in addition to WWE vs TNA, and ROH, Cena was on Fox as well.

 

I find it interesting that the WWE called the Hart Dynasty to show up on RAW but didn't use them (or maybe they did but I don't remember reading they were on TV). I wonder if they had plans for them but they were changed at the last moment.

I really don't think the whole Montreal thing bugged HBK at all and he wasn't never going to be definded by that but I'm glad Bret was man enough to do the angle with him and hopefully is able to finally let it go as well (I hope that's the case).

Isn't it funny though that back in 1997 that championships meant that much to people? Now the wrestlers aren't even allowed to travel with the belts as management collects the titles after each show and they're pretty much just a prop. And guys like Michaels who back in the 90s refused to job and lose the title and now doesn't even want a title reign anymore.

 

I read somewhere that the Hart Dynasty was only called there to provide support for Bret. Also,I don't think Bret and Vince will actually have a match but will be in someones corner. I can see maybe DX with Bret vs Hart Dynasty with Vince based on face/heel alignments.I could also see Triple H turn on Michaels with Vince in Triple H's corner and Bret in Shawns corner.

 

That is kind of my beef I guess. I thought it was a great start making up with HBK. It would have been great that afterJericho was disposed of...Bret came out and announced that, by the way, DX will be defending their straps again against the Hart Dynasty...and its a No DQ match. Big Show clobbers both HBK and HHH who are already gassed, allowing the Hart Dynasty to pick up the straps and get soem heel heat while Uncle Bret stands at the top of the ramp with that slight smile on his face knowing that he just screwed HBK out of a title.

And if you are going to run that angle at the end with Vince, I think you have to have Bret grab a mic again and announce that yes, this guest host gig was a one time thing, but guess who signed a talent contract and will be sticking around for longer than Vince ever bargained for? As the fans catch on, Bret goes on to say that he is here on Raw to make Vince's life a living hell and there is nothing Vince can do about it, and end on Vince doing his trademark gulp.

 

Jeff Hardy got indicted by Grand Jury today on drug charges from his September arrest. Bad news for him and TNA now.

 

Can't argue with either points. Both would have made sense.

 

Oh and as for the TNA talent is concerned, for my money they have quite a few guys that they need to showcase and can fairly easily. In no particular order:

AJ Styles
Samoa Joe (although he has let himself get even fatter at this point)
Christopher Daniels
Hernandez
Motor City Machine Guns
Homicide
The Pope
Desmond Wolfe (let the man speak)
British Invasion
Matt Morgan

and of course, their women's division that is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the WWE's.

 

at least 2 more expected to make their debut at the PPV or the Monday after.

Also TNA drew a 1.5 tv rating...critics were expecting around an .8 -.9. So that's a huge success for tna. Supposedly WWE draws around a 3. each week.

 

Yeah TNA drew about 2.2 million people while RAW drew 5.6 million people so it was definitely a big success for wrestling fans.

 

Good to hear the ratings,they were pretty good for both sides. Now that TNA has a bigger audience and more people know based on Monday they have to build on that. Look it was great to have surprise people show up on Monday but they will need more than that to keep people into it. In my opinion while it was good to have a few guests they sort of lost focus on some of their own guys who can put on a good match. They will have to showcase their best talent eventually rather than relying on surprise guests. Although in my opinion while I did like their show Monday,they will need to learn how to keep their audience interested.

 

You hit the nail on the head. TNA needs to keep having strong shows now, they can't let up or that Monday show will mean nothing pretty quickly.

 

You know what is interesting about the ratings? TNA got a 1.5 and WWE got a 3.6...which is exactly what they had the week before (and is somewhat stronger than their normal ratings as of late).

TNA typically gets about a 1.0 rating. So they added quite a few viewers to their monday night show. And did so WITHOUT really pulling away from Raw's audience. Now, obviously there were quite a bit of hardcore fans who watched both. Which means that there are quite a bit of "mainstream" fans who are/were interested in the returns of Hogan/Hart. That is a GREAT thing for the business.

Now to retain it. I think part of the issue will be that next Monday...everyone will tune in to see TNA and it won't be there, so it is going to be tough to keep that new audience all the way until next Thursday.

Also, I think you can chalk up, at least a portion, of the bigger audience to the Monday Night Football viewers who now need to look for somethign new to watch that night. So I expect the ratings to be a tad stronger for Raw going forward.

I know Hogan was predicting a 3, he got exactly half of that. But it is still a success for them. And Raw for that matter. It is amazing to think that just a few years ago, Raw was able to pull an 8.0 for a show.

 

TNA has to be pumped seeing that rating. I know it surprised a lot of people they did so well. I think another big problem TNA is going to run into is wrestling fans love to see surprises, TNA did a lot of them on Monday with Hardy, Flair, Hall, Waltman, Nastys etc. so they basically went all out on Monday (which I don't blame them for) so now they need to really focus on putting on good matches and keeping storylines interesting. Obviously their ratings won't continue to be that high but TNA can't let the initial shock/exposer go away or Monday night's show will be meaningless in a few months.

 

Agreed.

And is probably part of the problem for TNA going forward. Popping that ratign with older guys may cause them to rely TOO heavily on people like the Nasty Boys, The Click, and other 1990 era guys who are good for one time nostalgia purposes, but not long term gains. Hoepfully they know enough from their own angles (main event mafia) to know that these older guys should be cashing in their goodwill to put OVER the younger guys at this point.

 

It is expected that Ken Anderson (Kennedy) will debut at some point in the near future.

 

Spike comments on moving TNA to Mondays....

Spike TV senior vice president Brian Diamond commented to TheSteelCage.net on the possibility of TNA iMPACT! moving to Monday nights.

"It's a consideration," Diamond said. "Obviously the results of Monday were extremely encouraging for us to take that under advisement. It's something that we'll look at. At what point we do it or in what manner we do it remains to be seen, but it's definitely something we're taking more seriously than we did, say a year ago.

Diamond says that TNA has been improving the production values of iMPACT! in recent months and now has many of the key pieces in place to make some moves.

"I think all the right ingredients are there right now. The right players, the right talent, the right production personnel. From a production standpoint, going to HD in October really boosted the look and the feel of TNA Wrestling. Now, between production, talent and the people behind the scenes, it's a great recipe for a great TV meal. But (moving to Monday's) is something we're looking at very closely. We haven't made any big decisions yet but it's something we're considering."

 

At this point. I think anyone involved with the Hulkamania Tour of Australia is probably smart money to debut for TNA soon.

Switching gears, who does everyone want to see in the Hall of Fame this year?

For my money (and it won't happen): Randy Savage, Rick Rude, Ted Dibiase, Jake Roberts, Stu and Owen Hart...and someone else suggested the Road Warriors, which I thought would be a nice addition as well.

 

Nice debate/topic!

Yeah you hit on pretty much everyone that should be in it already that's not. I doubt all of those guys will be inducted together as most of the guys mentioned are dead and I'm sure the last thing the WWE wants is more deaths in wrestling attention. I also can't see how the WWE lets Jake Roberts back on live TV with a mike in his hand.

But I will mention The Rock, Ultimate Warrior, Big Bossman, Honky Tonk Man, Rick Martel, Brutus Beefcake, Earthquake, British Bulldog, Arn Anderson, Dean Malenko, Miss Elizabeth, Eric Bischoff, Paul Heyman, Lex Luger, Brian Pillman, Yokozuna and Demolition as guys I'd like to see in it, obviously they all can't be in at the same time.

The Warrior, Luger and Demolition have no shot unfortunately along with Savage, for now, and also Bruno Sammartino but they all should be in. Also I do think Vince and Linda McMahon should be inducted as well, and obviously will be in the future.

I wouldn't be shocked if the WWE inducted The Hart Family (Stu, Owen, Jim Neidhart, Bulldog) this year. The WWE already announced they plan on releasing a Hart Family DVD showing footage and various matches of members of the Harts. It would make sense to induct all of those members at once (also easier for the WWE to get Owen in there without a lot of negative backlash) and plus they have Bret on the payroll it makes way too much sense not to do it.

I'm guessing the one guy that will probably be a lock is Ted DiBiase, especially if they turn Ted Jr. face and wrestles Orton at WM, then they could have the Million Dollar Man in his corner. I was surprised when the WWE didn't induct LOD the last time WM was in Chicago, they should definitely be in sooner than later. I'm sure we'll get someone like a Brooklyn Brawler, Doink or Hardcore Holly and one of the decreased wrestlers from above.

So my 5 to 6 pick predictions would be:
-The Hart Family
-Million Dollar Man Ted DiBiase
-Big Bossman
-Dean Malenko
-Arn Anderson
-Rick Martel
-Brooklyn Brawler

 

I will also expand it and say these guys are (should be) locks from the Attitude Era to be in inducted in the future:

- Shawn Michaels
- Undertaker
- The Rock
- Mick Foley
- Kane
- Triple H
- Vince McMahon
- Nash
- Hall
- Sean Waltman
- Big Show
- Owen Hart
- New Age Outlaws
- The Hardys
- Edge & Christian
- Dudley Boys
- Sable
- Sunny
- Goldust
- Sting
- Booker T/ Harlem Heat
- Rey Mysterio
- Kurt Angle
- John Cena
- Trish Stratus
- Chris Jericho
- Jeff Jarrett
- Chyna
- The Horsemen as a group
- nWo as a group
- DX as a group
- Mike Tyson

I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot more but these wrestlers should be locks in my opinion. Feel free to discuss.

 

There are to many big names on your list. Ted DiBiase would probably lead the class. Stu is already announced. I don't see Malenko or Martel getting in. Letting a jobber like Brawler in is a joke. Then again...KoKo B. Ware made it in, so who knows. AA needs to be in.

 

I like the idea of inducting the Harts as a family, as they prettymuch did that with the Von Erichs. And the notion for The Ultimate Warrior to get in isn't too far fetched. Wrestlemania IS in Arizona this year, which happens to be where Warrior is from as well. I could see them doing a little local tie in like they usually do.

And the only other wrestlers from that area of significance are Kevin Nash (won't happen) and I believe Lex Luger (who I think is still in a wheel chair so I doubt he gets trotted out).

The WWE typically has one or two major names followed by some lesser knowns. So I am not sure if they will ever have a stacked Hall of Fame cast, so to speak. Dibiase seems like a natural fit as well. And I actually would be okay with Brawler getting in since, based on longevity, and what he has done behind the scenes, he is actually a good candidate one day. I expect a token female to get in as well. Sunny? Trish Stratus? It might be too early for her, but I bet she makes it one day.

Ted Dibiase
Ultimate Warrior
The Harts
Sunny
Dr. Death Steve Williams (his contributions were large outside of the WWE).

 

I'd be okay with them putting in the Four Horseman (the original 4) as a unit.

I'd love to see Macho make it in, but it'll never happen. I'm just happy we finally got a DVD release.

 

Is Stu announced? I didn't think they started announcing people until late Febish.

Both Malenko and Martel should get in. Malenko would get in based on his work in WCW as he was one of the top 2 or 3 Cruiserweights during that era. Martel was with the WWE for a long time almost 10 years or so, won the tag title, never left the company on bad terms and was a pretty good worker before the injuries kicked in. If they have guys like Koko B. Ware (as you mentioned) there should be a spot for Martel.

The Brawler aka Steve Lombardi being voted in isn't a joke, he's been with the company for well over 20 years I believe doing numerous roles from wrestler (under tons of names from the Brawler to Doink to MVP) to manager to agent to trainer. If Howard Finkel is in, the Brawler deserves it for sure.

Well the reason why I don't think the Warrior will ever get in is because of all the legal battles between him and the WWF/E and the bad blood.

Nash will get in once he retires, I'm sure. Luger will never get in because he screwed Vince over by jumping ship in 1995 for the first Nitro and he has tons of heat over the death of Elizabeth (whether it's fair or not).

I could see Sunny, Sable or Trish getting in this year although they might hold Trish back until they have a WM in Canada again. I wouldn't be shocked if a manager like Paul Bearer gets in either.

 

I think Savage will get in one of these years (maybe in like another 10 or so) but I think he gets in. It was a good sign that the WWE finally released a Savage DVD and I'm sure they will release another in a couple of years as well because it did a good job selling wise.

 

Actually...Bearer is a pretty good option. Although, he is most famous for managing ONE wrestler, but still, he is more qualified than others who are in in my opinion. Is Jimmy Hart in? I can't remember. If not, he deserves to be...as should Paul Heyman and Jim Cornette.

I like the idea of putting in the Four Horsemen, but I am not sure how you do it. The stable changed so much, especially later on, do you make it specific for the originals? OR do you do it as a group concept, which means you are technically honoring people like Paul Roma, Steve McMichael and other great "luminaries."

Also, WWE usually inducts one of the old school members from the 60's/70's. So we may have to start thinking about that as well.

Maybe someone like Ray Stevens if he isn't already in? He was a west coaster though so he may have to wait until they do L.A. or (by some miracle) the Bay Area.

 

The Savage issue is so damned interesting to me. I find it hard to believe that Bret Hart can be working for Vince again, but that Savage is still persona non grata up there. He was arguably the second biggest star ever made by the WWE and no dialogue whatsoever. Now, I know the rumors about him and Stephanie, but has anyone ever confirmed that?

What is the source of the bad blood? I don't think I have ever really known.

 

Jimmy Hart is in the Hall of Fame already. I was going to say Mr. Fuji instead of Bearer but I'm pretty sure he's in there as well. I still think Miss Elizabeth belongs in the HOF but she can't get in without Savage imo, they both have to be on the same ticket. I can't see the WWE putting in someone like Slick or Harvey Whippleman.

I agree with Cornette and I'm sure he'll get in in a few years, he's just been to out spoken with the WWE recently for them to consider it. Heyman obviously, along with Bischoff, should be a no brainer in the future as well.

I think to induct a group/faction you have to look at each group seperately. Obviously if DX was going in you have to put in the original members (HBK, Triple H and Chyna) but also include X-Pac and the NAO while excluding people like Tori and Rick Rude who were only in the group for a short period of time and didn't really contribute much to the group. With the nWo you'd probably have to include everyone up to the nWo Hollywood/nWo Wolfpac split, so no Luger or Sting. As for the Horsemen, I think you have to only put in the originals mainly because they were the best of the bunch and the whole Benoit (and to a lesser extent Woman) thing since there's no way the WWE is going to put him in. And as you mentioned having Roma and McMichael in would be somewhat of a joke. And people like Malenko, Pillman, Hennig, Elizabeth, Debra, Sting, etc didn't really contribute much to the overall feel for the group.

For an old school WWEer what about Bob Backlund or the Iron Sheik?

 

I think there's plenty of room for tag teams. The Road Warriors are an obvious choice, as is teams like the Midnight Express or even the Hart Foundation.

I agree with folks that a manager is due. Fuji, Albano, Heenan, and Blassie are all in the HOF. I could see Bearer getting inducted.

Vince has made a habit of inducting folks from the 80s period. I have a couple of Intercontinental Champs that may merit consideration: Rick Rude and Honky Tonk Man.

 

The only person who supposedly knows is Dave Meltzer, and Meltzer isn't saying.

 

I was going to say Backlund too Finkle ... here's the whole list of who is in the HOF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WWE_Hall_of_Fame

 

No one really knows that's the thing. The rumor with Stephanie has never been confirmed nor denied by anyone, nor does anyone comment on it ever. I had heard that Savage was upset with McMahon when Vince tried to make him into a full time color man after WM7 and even after he won the WWF title at WM8, Vince was never 100% committed to him wrestling and only let him wrestle a handful of times after he dropped the belt back to Flair which lead to Savage lying to Vince and got out of his WWF contract by telling Vince he wanted to act and didn't want to wrestle anymore then jumped to WCW to wrestle which really upset Vince. I also heard that Vince was interested in bringing Savage back in the late 90s/early 2000s but Savage was asking for tons of money and the conversations led to even more bad blood. Who knows though. I know a lot of the old time IWC writers think there might be some truth to the Savage/Stephanie thing only because there's really no other reason for Vince keeping him out for this long but there leads a lot to be explained and even that story has a lot of holes in it. I guess we'll never really know the true story unless McMahon wants to write a tell all book (which would be amazing if he didn't BS the whole thing and was honest).

 

Dave Meltzer was on Bill Simmons' podcast over the summer, around Macho Man's DVD release, and Simmons asked him about why Savage was never brought back. I can't remember exactly what Meltzer said (maybe I'll listen to it again tonight on my way home from work) but basically he said that no one really knows but he thinks there has to be at least some truth to the Stephanie rumors only because there's no other real explaination as to why Savage hasn't been back ever. He did bring up some points about how it didn't make total sense if the rumors are true because there are a lot of holes involved and things that don't make total sense (i.e. how Stephanie wouldn't have been of legal age at the time and if true why McMahon never fired Savage or pressed charges on him).

Thanks for the list! I've see it before but could never remember who's in it. Especially the really early inductions in the 90s.

 

Bob Backlund seems like a glaring oversight, especially considering his long reign as champion. Although, I seem to recall some heat between he and McMahon as well.

But he would be a great choice for the old schooler. As would Sammartino if he ever stopped grousing and just accepted that things change.

I don't see Gorgeous George on there which is a tad surprising.

And Madusa/Alundra Blayze is a viable candidate as well for a women wrestler imo. I don't think she has any beef with anyone.

 

She tossed the WWF Women's Title in the garbage on the first Nitro ... that may not sit to well with Vince.

Sunny is certainly a possibility, if they want to put in a female. I am surprised that the Road Warriors aren't in as well, especially after their DVD a few years ago.

 

Holy hell. I forgot all about the garbage thing. Good call.

And without looking again, is Duggan in? If not, I could see him getting in as one of those long standing, all around good guy inductees they do from time to time.

 

Duggan, amazingly, is not in. I agree with you that he could very well get in this year. Especially with the feel-good story of overcoming cancer to come back and wrestle.

Has there ever been a case of an active wrestler being inducted? How about HBK with an introduction by Bret Hart? Or induct HBK and Undertaker at the same time, with a rematch the next day.