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Vontae Davis was the worst Cb in the AFCE

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by padre31, Jan 9, 2010.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No surprise, Vontae was targeted all yr, he won some of those matchups but he lost more than he won.

    Sean Smith as the best on the dolphins:

    Sean Smith was the Miami Dolphins' best in terms of burn percentage. He ranked 16th, allowing 35 receptions on 73 targets for a 47.9 percentage.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/index/_/count/1
     
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  2. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    Yes bro, but we didn't help him with our lack of pressure on the opposing QB this year. We had no veteran leader at corner with Allen out. He will be better for it next year. We also didn't have the best safety help back there as well.:wink2:
     
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  3. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would a lack of safety help over the top here constitue a "burn". Even still, we know he got burned a lot, but he also showed great upside by tracking the ball well while in the air, getting position on WRs to INT the ball, great leaping ability and body control, and above all, great closing speed.

    With his attitude, and constant willingness to get better and evaluate tape, I think we have a future star here.

    V.Davis at the end of the day was in fact a rookie, but I don't think we have anything to worry about.
     
  4. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    now he'll just have to get better or lose the start
    doesn't surprise me w/ a new almost completely
    rookie defensive backfield being fielded
    & using two SS's (our only veterans) think about it

    I'm sure things will improve considerably next year
    w/ a year of playing in the NFL under their belt
    & a Stud ILB & second starting-calibre NT to add to the mix
    that should help support their effort. it's like love & marriage
    the front seven & the defensive backfield go together
     
  5. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    From the USA Today team report that I posted.

    The pass coverage, ranked 29th in yards per pass play, was porous although Miami was ranked first in sacks per pass play. While strong safety Yeremiah Bell provided outstanding run support and had a career-high four picks, his weakness was exposed in the middle of the field as opposing tight ends torched him and Miami's inside linebackers all season.
     
  6. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I can't agree with you on pressure.The phins in 2009 are 3rd in the nfl with 44 sacks.
    I will agree the safety help over top was beyond horrible.I think we our last in the league at ypc this year.The thing that worries me about davis is i did not see much improvement from the first game he started to the last game.
    He is a rookie so hopefully he makes a jump in production next year but if he plays like this year we are in big trouble.
     
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  7. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    I saw that...the stat is misleading, I think he is better than those stats, they threw at him all the time. Well a little experience next year, maybe they throw at him more and he gets more int's.....he had a better year, and has more upside than Smith...
     
  8. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    I respect your opinion, and your post bro. We need more speed to get to the opposing QB, and other then Wake we don't have that without blitzing. If this team management is going to take the next step forward they must get someone in here to do that. I appreciate the stats. However I lost count this year how many times the opposing Qb's had all day to look over the field.:wink2:
     
  9. Tone_E

    Tone_E Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just because we were 3rd in the NFL in sacks doesn't mean we applied constant pressure. What happened on all the downs where we did not get a sack? How much time did we give the QB to throw?

    I'll try and find some stats on 'QB Pressures', which would be the telling stat, not Sacks.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, VD giving up a catch 60% of the time is no great surprise, Smith down at 47% is, at least somewhat.

    Vontae will improve, "but" I saw Jason Allen savaged for giving up far fewer big plays and catches than either Vontae or Gibril Wilson, but eventually JA did improve even with playing only rarely at Cb.
     
  11. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Last I checked we were top 10 in hurries as well.

    I think people have the impression that other teams never let QBs have all day to throw. But the fact is it happens to every team. Miami among the top 10 in getting consistent pressure on the QB.
     
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  12. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    i am not worried about Vontae ...

    i can't say anything to refute the stats ... but i will still take Davis every day of the week over Smith. he will be better next season ....

    Smith did do a decent job at covering the sideline - not a wonder with his size ... but was absolutely horrendous at anything in space or releasing back across the middle (which was how teams decided to attack him).
     
  13. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    It seemed to me if we did not get a sack it was a completion.I am not saying our pass rush was the best but 44 sacks show you we our not the worst either.I don't remember all year getting a coverage sack from this team.
    Davis,smith,wilson,clemons,bell better cover better next year or we are going to have same season as this year.Not to mention we need some ilbs that can cover the damm te.Man that was killing me watching every te toast us every game.
    I do know we need some olbs to rush the passer next year since porter and taylor have left thier better days behind them.
     
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  14. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO it's fairer to say that Davis was the worst coverage CB in the AFCE. He was actually very good in run support.

    I still believe that Smith is and will be the better CB, but both wil be good.
     
  15. Fin Fan In Cali

    Fin Fan In Cali Dolphin fan since 1970 Luxury Box

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    Davis will get better. I really appreciate his hitting. I think Davis will be the better overall corner.:wink2:
     
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  16. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    He also led the team in INTs, which seems to fit him about right.
     
  17. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Funny how the stats can be different
    ProFootballFocus has Smith at 38 receptions on 67 targets
    for 56.7 %

    They even have Davis as 48 receptions on 76 targets
    for 63.2%

    I wonder which one is correct PFF or espn??

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...e=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
     
  18. LikeUntoGod

    LikeUntoGod Season Ticket Holder

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    This is one reason I would like someone like Taylor Mays over Berry. A safety needs to have enough size as well as speed to cover the better pass catching TEs.

    I looked up the stats on all NFL ILBs and almost all of them are very poor in coverage.

    We need our Safeties to be about to cover TEs and our CBs to cover the WRs.

    I'm still of the very strong opinion that we need three younger and better Linebackers and a NT if Fergie does not return(and even if he does).

    I'd let our very young WRs and DBs grow a bit before we add anyone to their number.
     
  19. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Off season will bring another new face to fight for that starting spot. Davis will be better or be watching from the sideline. He has the talent to improve and now he has a year in the big league under his belt. 60% is not good enough, id bet money that he is'nt happy with those numbers either.
     
  20. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'd love to see the average yards per catch against each corner in the AFC East as well, to see who gives up more big plays (although that hs a lot to do with safety-performance too).

    Vontae makes big plays, which often colors our perception of him as 'amazing' even as he gives up a ton of plays too.

    YOu win with consistency AND big plays, not being inconsistent but making big play like Vontae did this year.

    He was a rookie, and hopefully that improves, but he has always had a rep of inconsistent focus and mental lapses.
     
  21. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    What constitutes being targeted. Just because you line up over a receiver doesn't mean you are responsible for the area in which he catches the ball.
     
  22. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    if you do god bless you. i have been looking for those stats on pressures and cant find them anywhere :up:
     
  23. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    I think PFF is the best bet for that sort of information, though lamentably it's not as sortable across all positions and teams as you'd like. Best that could be done is to go to each individual team and sort their defense by pressures.
     
  24. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    Quite a few people complain regarding to the Pressure we got on opposing QBs this season SO HERE GOES

    Dolphins...126 QB pressures
    Jets..........124 QB pressures
    Patriots.....117 QB pressures
    Buffalo......93 QB pressures
    Dallas......164 QB pressures led the NFL

    QB hits
    Pats.........55
    Buffalo.....52
    Jets.........48
    Miami......46
    Dallas......78 led the nfl
     
  25. finserg

    finserg Well-Known Member

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    I actually think he did good for his first year,I have a feeling he only going to get better
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    PFF has qb pressures, JT and Wake tied for 19 apiece for most on the phins.
     
  27. Marco

    Marco Well-Known Member

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    There are 61 cornerbacks in the AFC East?? That's just over 15 corners per team. It really is a passing league!

    Still, rookie corners just go through a trial by fire, especially when your safeties aren't giving you the best of help.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
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  28. Idahophin

    Idahophin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If Will Allen comes back strong from his injury, who starts at corner? Does Davis go back to the bench?
     
  29. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    Bro, that was a great post, and observation. Thanks for the run down.
     
  30. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    And how many people did we have to bring in order to get that pressure? There were times we brought 6-7-8 players on a blitz, got pressure on the QB but were burned.

    Also how many of those times did we hit the QB after he stepped into his throw, a step and a half too late. Stats can be misleading.
     
  31. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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    Brother,

    That post from the USA was GREAT! Thank you so much for posting it.
     
  32. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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  33. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    I also remember games where the downfield coverage was very good and the QB just hung out in the pocket for a while until our D finally got some "pressure." Still the QBs were usually able to make a play.
     
  34. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I'm sure it is either 61st in the NFL or AFC, and it just happens to be he is the lowest ranked CB in the AFCE.
     
  35. Sethdaddy8

    Sethdaddy8 Well-Known Member

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    a saving grace for vontae was rather solid play making ability. he is a play maker, with big picks, circus picks, a pick 6, picks in the endzone to kill scoring drives. and he brings serious lumber. his coverage will get better, he'll get smarter, but we're always gonna have guys giving up plays.
     
  36. MaddMatt

    MaddMatt New Member

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  37. Phins28

    Phins28 Up the Irons

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    No, we move Will Allen to free safety.
     
  38. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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  39. dwhorton

    dwhorton New Member

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    a little more pass rush and a whole lot less man coverage.
     
  40. Zod

    Zod Ruler of the Universe

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    I'm glad you were the original poster Padre because I think you know I mean no offense with the latest comment. These statistics really do not matter to a hill of beans. The number one reason is that the Dolphins were not playing the coverages that this team wants to play.

    Just recently I have started going back to watch our season. I've watched the first half versus the Falcons five times already. This team wanted to play coverages with two and three deep. We know that this team was reduced to one deep. Through this game review, I'm discovering the reasons why.

    Do you recall Roddy White spinning Sean Smith in a 360 during a three deep coverage? It's there on the tape. By the end of the second quarter Sean Smith was replaced by Vontae Davis.

    For 1/3 of the first half Yeremiah Bell was playing free safety. Gibril Wilson was playing strong safety of 1/3 of the first half. The dime package consisted of Bell on the bench and Culver at free safety.


    By the time Vontae Davis took over for an injured Will Allne our coverage were reduced dramatically. They were not using the two and three deep coverage the Dolphins want to be in going forward after this season. They were in the easiest coverages that allow for dumb cornerbacks. With Will Allen returning, I don't expect to see that any longer. These dumb corners will either get smart enough to play zone or they will be gone. The man coverage statistics for this year do not address that fact.





    For what it's worth, I'm attempting to get the first three games reviewed. I want to see the demise of this secondary. I want to see when they gave up on the entire family of cover 2 coverages and I want to see which players hold the most culpability. It's easy to say "he sucks and he sucks" from recollection. I'm not trying to participate in that.
     

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