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Question about Al Groh.....

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Jan 12, 2010.

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  1. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    I think I would be ok with him as our new DC...if that is the direction we go in.

    However, what will he do in south Florida when it is to hot for sweatshirts?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Seriously...he needs to ditch the sweatshirts if he is going to be our DC. It is bad enough that we have a head coach who wears rain/wind coats on sunny 90 degree days.
     
  2. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    we already have an old and senile offensive coordinator
    why not have an old and senile defensive coordinator to go with him :wink2:
     
  3. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    65 is the new 45 didn't you hear?
     
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  4. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Slim pickings out there for a quality DC right now. Still high profile college jobs available as well as pro jobs. UGA, GT, and USC still have positions to fill on the college level and the NFL has a few that are open and others that could open (say if Del Rio goes to USC and the Jags clean house).

    Just not the best market right now to buy. IYAM, Groh might be the best answer in the short term until someone can be groomed or another top candidate becomes available.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Philosophically I hope Groh is not the new DefCord.

    What happens when you start hiring well known commodities to run entire units is progress stalls, the old ideas are trotted out and no innovation takes place.

    Nothing personally against Al Groh, but we need some young blood, hiring him would be a bit like hiring Bud Carson.
     
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  6. HardKoreXXX

    HardKoreXXX Insensitive to the Touch

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    I'm with you Parde. I'd rather have some new blood at DC. One thing about Pasq and Groh, and Henning for that matter, is you know what you're going to get. Nothing new.
     
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  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Take Zimmer off of the menu:

    Nice, we will contend in 2014!
     
  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Which also means Ireland has to outperform every other GM who is stocking the 3-4, the pool of talent is only so deep, unless the Staff can squeeze production out of players no one else wants.

    Al Groh has NEVER done that.
     
  9. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I Already posted this in another thread but it also belongs here. Al Groh's record as a Def Cord isn't very impressive. One decent year with the giants and the rest are middle to the bottom of the pack.

    [​IMG]

    There has to be someone out there better than him.
     
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  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    ^^ Those rankings are based only on yards allowed. I'd rather also take into consideration points allowed and takeaways. Giving up yardage does not necessarily lose games. Giving up points and not getting turnovers does cost you games.
     
  11. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Ok, so what are his numbers in Points allowed?
     
  12. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Points Allowed (PA) he dropped from 7th to 12th in the one year he coached the giants D and sort of leveled out in his years coaching NE. still nothing special.


    1991 GAINTS PA: 12th
    1993 PATSIES PA: 11th
    1994 PATSIES PA: 12th
    1995 PATSIES PA: 25th
    1996 PATSIES PA: 14th
     
  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is no such thing as 4-3 or 3-4 players.
     
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  14. Alex44

    Alex44 Boshosaurus Rex

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    I disagree.

    The difference in skill set for linebackers, inside and out, and what you ask of your defensive lineman...is completely different than the 4-3 and not every player fits that mold.

    Theres no way Dwight Freeney is a 3-4 defensive end for example, and the convert to OLB isnt something every player can do.
     
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  15. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    Agreed. In a 3-4 you need that guy in the middle. The NT that can play over the center and control the middle. Your DE's need to be larger than 4-3 ends. They need to be built to play the run first and rush the passer second. Control the LOS that's their job. Your OLB's are your pass rush specialist. They also are where you generate most of your Pass rush. Your ILB's have to be able to play off blocks where as 4-3 Middle linebacker can be smaller and faster ALA Zach T.

    With that said we do play some 4-3. Most 3-4 defenses do and mix it up from time to time.
     
  16. Killerphins

    Killerphins The Finger

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    On a message board maybe
    but not on the football field
    you listen too much into the 4-3 hype
     
  17. jetssuck

    jetssuck I hear Mandich's voice...

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    But there is such thing as players that fit one system better than the other. And one doesn't really need an understanding of those two schemes to see that. Just watch the draft....teams, including us, will be selecting defensive players based on which one of the two they.employ.

    So how can there be no such thing?
     
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  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Trying to see the glass as half full rather than half empty, I'd also add that his 1994 defense produced 40 turnovers. That's pretty good. The 1996 unit was good enough to help the Pats reach the SB.

    To compare Crennel's results, since he is the other most talked about possibility:
    2000 BROWNS PA: 27TH, YDS: 26TH
    2001 PATS PA: 6TH, YDS: 24TH
    2002 PATS PA: 17TH, YDS: 23RD
    2003 PATS PA: 1ST, YDS: 7TH
    2004 PATS PA: 2ND, YDS: 9TH

    Just as with Groh coaching under Parcells, one has to wonder how much of the Pats success was due to Belichick rather than Crennel.
    When going off on his own by taking over the Browns job, his defenses while HC there were as follows:
    2005 BROWNS PA:11TH, YDS: 16TH
    2006 BROWNS PA: 22ND, YDS: 27TH
    2007 BROWNS PA: 21ST, YDS: 30TH (Interesting that was his best team in terms of W-L record at 10-6)
    2008 BROWNS PA: 16TH, YDS: 26TH

    I don't recall who was the Browns DC under Crennel, but Romeo probably had his influence on the defense as much as Belichick did over him, or Parcells over Groh.

    I am not going to worry who we pick. I can accept Groh, Crennel or whomever and figure the trifecta knows which one fits better than I can. :up:
     
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  19. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Well if thats the way you feel about older coaches, get used to it...Remember who is running the show...Parcells isn't going to venture too far from what he's been successful at in the past and what he knows. That's why Groh is a very, very logical choice.

    That said, I don't have as much of an issue with that attacking 3-4 he likes, in fact, it would be a welcome change at this point. Of course, Groh grew up learning off of the Tuna, so this would be a fairly logical move...
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is a difference in the players in individual schemes on a very specific level, but overall no there is not a 4-3 or 3-4. Basically any player is going to get used appropriately in one version of one or the other.
     
  21. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Player get misused all the time because of schemes, look no further then Joey Porter when we went 1-15. There are some players that don't fit either scheme, I'm not sure how you can say there isnt
     
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  22. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Joey Porter would have been just fine in that defense had injuries to other players not have damaged things to the point they had to fundamentally alter from the intended defense.
     
  23. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    Strongly disagree here. Porter was made a strong-side OLB that year with Taylor weak-side. Porter is a very poor run-stopper, worse than Taylor, and having him strong-side nullifies his strongest attribute of rushing the passer. That's a big reason why they were switched this year.
     
  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It wasn't the same position with the same requirements. Porter was replacing Donnie Spragan in that same role and then playing David Bowens in passing downs. Further, if Porter played Taylors position in the defense that year he would essentially be doing the same thing he did in '08 with his hand on the ground.
     
  25. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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    not to worry. they already had settled the issue of who be the replacement before the fire the guy. we have a professional front office.
     
  26. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    Not true. In '08, he was weak side versus strong side. So, he didn't have to deal with the TE as well as the OT (and possibly a RB or FB), and his primary responsibility would not be to stop the run, but to rush the passer.
     
  27. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    So because of Al Groh's age he can't be innovative? Not sure how anyone can reach that conclusion. If anything, him being in the college game would give him more experience dealing with spread offenses.
     
  28. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    so your saying Miami could take Tampas 6'0 215 lb OLB Geno Hayes and plug him in to Miamis system? or any 3-4 system for that matter..
     
  29. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You misunderstand, I said if Porter played the position Taylor did in '07 he would essentially be doing the exact thing he was successful at in '08, basically lining up as far wide as it took to be uncovered and switching opposite the TE regardless of side with little to no coverage or run discipline.
     
  30. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I believe Dallas did that. His name was Roy Williams.
     
  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ayup, he might not be an everydown starter, but he has his place. What do you think the difference is between that and Yeremiah Bell playing linebacker in Nickel packages here is?
     
  32. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    well of course everyone can have a role...Jason Allen has a role. but that doesnt mean Hayes has a place in the 3-4 defense.
     
  33. LandShark13

    LandShark13 New Member

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    I agree on the age part. After all Dick LeBeau is 73. On the other hand that doesn't make in innovative either. I would think though that if they wanted Al Groh they would already have him singed sealed and delivered. I mean he's already stated he would like to play for Bill again and yet he hasn't been singed. I think they have their sights set on someone different.
     
  34. DolfanCole

    DolfanCole Season Ticket Holder

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    Gotcha. I did misunderstand. But you've now proven the point we're trying to make. In '07, he played strongside and had a miserable year whereas in '08, he played weakside and had a great year.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    One other thought, looking at Crennel and Groh...both seemed to do fine when given some talent to work with and their Defenses struggled when talent was lacking. Either one, or the surprise sleeper pick we don't know of yet, will do fine if they got the players. Neither is going to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.
     

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